Life in Outerspace vs Innerspace

Why do the qualifications for life differ?
Science is Science...
If you find a microbe in outer-space that qualifies as life.
Could you imagine an astronaut destroying any form of alien life just because "They didn't want it"
But performing an abortion isn't destroying a life... seems like a double standard and applying your "choice" of a definition. Doesn't work for me. You don't get your cake and get to throw it away too. Eat that cake or give it to someone that wants it.

Trendkilla254 said:

Why do the qualifications for life differ?
Science is Science...
If you find a microbe in outer-space that qualifies as life.
Could you imagine an astronaut destroying any form of alien life just because "They didn't want it"
But performing an abortion isn't destroying a life... seems like a double standard and applying your "choice" of a definition. Doesn't work for me. You don't get your cake and get to throw it away too. Eat that cake or give it to someone that wants it.

Click to expand...

Many shades of gray in many areas are involved not just black or white.
No U.S. state has enacted a law which criminalizes specific behavior during pregnancy.
Until the fetus is viable, any rights granted to it may come at the expense of the pregnant woman, simply because the fetus cannot survive except within the woman's body. Upon viability, the pregnancy can be terminated, as by a c-section or induced labor, with the fetus surviving to become a newborn infant.

I may be wrong but I think is USA pretty much the Biblical a child is a child when it is born and can survive indepently of the mother. A growth is not a person-- is not a life/person --until capable of sustained survival outside the mother with or without medical assistance--until then it is a parasitic growth requiring the mother-not much different than any other type, tumor etc.

In Roe v. Wade, the United States Supreme Court held that a pregnant woman has a fundamental privacy right, derived from the liberty language of section one of the Fourteenth Amendment, to obtain an abortion. That right, however, must be balanced against the State’s interests in the health of the pregnant woman and the“potential life” of her unborn child, which interests become compelling at different stages of pregnancy. And the State’s interest in the health of the woman does not become “compelling,” and,therefore, strong enough to support regulation of the abortion procedure, until the end of the first trimester of pregnancy, at which point the risks associated with undergoing an abortion are approximately equal to the risks associated with carrying the child to term.

The State’s interest in the “potential life” of the unborn child does not become “compelling,” and strong enough to support a prohibition of abortion, until the child is viable (i.e., capable of sustained survival outside the mother with or without medical assistance).
Even after the child’s viability, however, the States maynot prohibit an abortion if the procedure is necessary to preserve the
pregnant woman’s life or health.

For status under the rule of USA State Laws see:
THE LEGAL STATUS OF THE UNBORN CHILDUNDER STATE LAW https://www.thomasmoresociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/PDF-VERSION-OF-PBL-ARTICLE.pdf

Encap said:

A growth is not a person-- is not a life/person --until capable of sustained survival outside the mother with or without medical assistance--until then it is a parasitic growth requiring the mother-not much different than any other type, tumor etc.

Click to expand...

OK I think you should shut the fuck up right now! Or we are going to have some problems here!


Can a mod please step in and lock or delete this thread.

Alan

Pi R Squared said:

OK I think you should shut the fuck up right now! Or we are going to have some problems here!

Can a mod please step in and lock or delete this thread.

Alan

Click to expand...

Really it's a matter of opinion to an extent ... IS a fetus really a person before it is capable of surviving outside the womb? Or is it just a collection of unconscious cells before that?

Pi R Squared said:

OK I think you should shut the fuck up right now! Or we are going to have some problems here!

Click to expand...

Too late.

Encap said:

A growth is not a person-- is not a life/person --until capable of sustained survival outside the mother with or without medical assistance--until then it is a parasitic growth requiring the mother-not much different than any other type, tumor etc.

Click to expand...

Is that a belief you hold personally?

diachi said:

Really it's a matter of opinion to an extent ... IS a fetus really a person before it is capable of surviving outside the womb? Or is it just a collection of unconscious cells before that?

Click to expand...

To add another question, can it be considered unconscious yet still a human life?





What changes a "clump of cells" into a baby? - Adam4d.com

If you're not sure, don't run it over - Adam4d.com




.

TheDukeAnumber1 said:

Too late.




Is that a belief you hold personally?




To add another question, can it be considered unconscious yet still a human life?





What changes a "clump of cells" into a baby? - Adam4d.com

If you're not sure, don't run it over - Adam4d.com




.

Click to expand...

Opening up a whole can of worms here ...

Pi R Squared said:

OK I think you should shut the fuck up right now! Or we are going to have some problems here!

Can a mod please step in and lock or delete this thread.

Alan

Click to expand...

Am just stating what IS in the real world today in USA rather than make a personal opinion comment--the OP was asking why the double standard and I was simply attempting to address that---not any other "issues".

Is the age old question: Which came first the chicken or the egg? In this case the courts have ruled the chicken came first and the egg is an egg until it is a chicken.

Was not expressing a/or my personal opinion---ease up a bit--each of us is totally unique -- just like everyone else.
Iif you disagree with the state of the law in USA or your State address it with your State's courts, legislature or both and/or the US Federal Government's legislative and judicial branches---have a problem with them not me. I don't make the law any more than you do, so....

PI R Squared:
Check out your own State's Laws--a little bit about FYI I put below.
Washington Abortion Laws
While Roe v. Wade legalized abortion at the federal level, regulation of the controversial procedure is governed by state law. Laws vary widely from state to state. Washington abortion laws are relatively relaxed, with very few restrictions on patients seeking the procedure. In fact, the Washington Reproductive Privacy Act explicitly forbids the state from denying or interfering with a woman's right to choose an abortion (prior to viability of the fetus or to protect the mother's health).
Most state laws regarding abortion focus on licensing and zoning requirements of clinics; parental or spousal consent; waiting periods; and other administrative measures.
Code Section
9.02.100 et seq.
Statutory Definition of Illegal Abortion- State of Washington
Any medical treatment intended to induce the termination of a pregnancy except for the purpose of producing a live birth. Partial Birth Infanticide: Regulating partial-birth infanticide is not regulating abortion, but rather is proscribing infanticide by restricting the killing of a live infant who is in the process of birth. Partial birth infanticide is unlawful, but does not apply when the procedure was used to prevent the death of the mother when no other medical procedure would suffice, including the induction of labour or cesarean section.
Statutory Definition of Legal Abortion--State of Washington
Reproductive Privacy Act: "The state may not deny or interfere with a woman's right to choose to have an abortion prior to viability of the fetus or to protect her life or health." State may regulate as is medically necessary to protect the life, health of mother and consistent with established medical practice and in keeping with the least restrictive on the woman's right to have an abortion
Penalty for Unlawful Abortion
Unauthorized abortion performed: Class C felony
Physician Licensing Requirements--Licensed M.D., and licensed hospital, except when medical emergency, licensed health care provider may assist
~ See more at: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/washington-law/washington-abortion-laws.html#sthash.qzcIQ23G.dpuf


Note: Crazy ehough dysfunctional world we live in--people living in daydream worlds of their own design/imaginings --that is source of much of the conflits and problems in today's world---no need to add to it---more than enough to go around. Just saying.

Encap said:

AWas not expressing a/or my personal opinion

Click to expand...

That's what I though, just curious. FYI I appreciate your informed and factual responses. I do realize the war on abortion won't be won or lost here on LPF.

diachi said:

Really it's a matter of opinion to an extent ... IS a fetus really a person before it is capable of surviving outside the womb? Or is it just a collection of unconscious cells before that?

Click to expand...

diachi said:

Opening up a whole can of worms here ...

Click to expand...

You yourself opened a second can of worms, it is not a matter of opinion.

TheDukeAnumber1 said:

That's what I though, just curious. FYI I appreciate your informed and factual responses. I do realize the war on abortion won't be won or lost here on LPF.

Click to expand...

No not here on LPF, but everyone in every city in every nation must stand up for what's right. If not us then who? If not now when?

Alan

Pi R Squared said:

You yourself opened a second can of worms, it is not a matter of opinion.



No not here on LPF, but everyone in every city in every nation must stand up for what's right. If not us then who? If not now when?

Alan

Click to expand...

I fail to see how it isn't a matter of opinion. Encap brought up a valid point - when do we differentiate a fetus from some other random clump of cells?

Who decides what is right? What is "right" changes with time. "Right" is subjective, different cultures have a different sense of what is right and what is wrong.

Its a false dichotomy actually, in that the space stuff is decontaminated when it returns, TO kill unwanted microbes that might be brought back...(Outside of samples, not the samples of course)

...and the question is really about what life is...or that should be the question.


Now that we have a better handle on virus and prion genetics, etc, it is apparent that "life" is not really an exact concept.

Essentially, chemicals get progressively more complicated, and, at some point, historically, when they could reproduce, eat, etc, they were considered "alive"....so a virus or prion was not "alive".

We talked about killing viruses and so forth of course, which, if not alive, seems a bit odd. Many scientists and ethicists, etc, do consider these things to be "alive"....but, again, the very meaning of "alive" is really what they are trying to get a handle on.


I personally consider a fetus to be "alive" for what that's worth.

I look at it this way: We can take a single cell from a person, and clone them.

So, a single viable cell is alive, and, one day, could be a person...with sufficient medical care.


So, if you allow yourself to get a sunburn, or cut yourself shaving, and kill a single cell, you have committed murder.

After that, all we are going to argue about is enforcement and consequences for that murder.

Some feel that if its just a cell, its just a cell, and not what the cell might one day become with sufficient medical care.

Some might feel that the cell would require too much medical care to become a person...others might argue that this cell is precious and no matter what, if it COULD become a person, killing it is murder.




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