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Old 07-07-2016, 02:56 PM #1505
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Sigh. Murdering psychopath cops on the rampage again, and of course the victims seem to be black males. In one case the cop shot a guy for reaching for his ID after TELLING the guy to get his ID. WTF? Are cops seriously so trigger happy and paranoid? Do they doubt their ability to shoot the guy in time, if they see he's actually pulling out a gun? Things can't keep going on like this or we might have some real riots again. Cops seriously need to be reigned in and disciplined harshly when they fvck stuff up.
Sharpton: There must be a penalty for taking lives | MSNBC


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Old 07-07-2016, 03:12 PM #1506
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Cops have been on a rampage in every sense of the word, for decades now. That is not a question of race relations, but more so of the fact they keep being granted greater and greater levels of immunity. Until complaints against cops are treated the same way as would be a complaint against any armed man, things will not change. Having people enforce laws, without without being subject to said laws has never worked, and will never work.

The other side of the problem is cops have become tax collectors/revenue generators for local governments. In willingly taking on that role, they have relinquished any respect, or higher moral standing.

Really the problem started with Nixon, and Reagan's war on drugs, and has been kicked into overdrive with the patriot act, and police departments staffing themselves with returning soldiers.

Things will not change until qualified immunity is done away with. Until we get back to actually Equal Justice Under Law.

Given that I live in a fairly nice area, and generally stay out of trouble, I find myself far more concerned with running into thieves in uniforms, then I am the "criminal" element.

Not surprisingly many towns that have disbanded police departments altogether, or have hired private companies to do the policing are actually doing far better without institutionalized police departments. One big reason is these companies are not driven by revenue generation off of the backs of the people they are supposed to be helping.

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This goes back to 9/11 obviously, noone really expected that anyone would commandeer an aircraft to crash it while being on board himself. Such things never really crossed our minds before that, since it would not do the attacker any good. Now we know that assumption to be wrong, but i think it required the scenario actually taking place for people consider it as a real world problem.
Actually people did expect this kind of stuff. I still fully expect the bridges and tunnels to be targeted in the future for example, because it would absolutely cripple NYC.

Before Timothy McVeigh trucks were not really considered a threat... that has certainly changed now, but still remains the largest threat imo. Renting a fairly large truck in the US, literally takes nothing but a credit card, and a license. Everything required to make it deadly also doesn't require all that much effort to obtain, aside from some funds.

@Razako - there have been many cases of white men being shot by cops, but without the race issue being in play, mainstream media doesn't really cover the stories.

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Old 07-07-2016, 03:17 PM #1507
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Proudly protecting themselves and slaughtering And they wanna take OUR guns away? They can go drop dead far as I care.
*Warning graphic video of an old man with a golf club getting mowed down*

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Old 07-07-2016, 03:28 PM #1508
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

There's not even a pretense about it anymore. They have already defaulted to the standard "feared for my life" line.

The idea that fear itself is justification for lethal action, must be ended, with an extreme prejudice. Yes cops should be able to defend themselves, but if they make a mistake they should face murder and manslaughter charges.
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Old 07-07-2016, 03:32 PM #1509
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
There's not even a pretense about it anymore. They have already defaulted to the standard "feared for my life" line.

The idea that fear itself is justification for lethal action, must be ended, with an extreme prejudice. Yes cops should be able to defend themselves, but if they make a mistake they should face murder and manslaughter charges.
It's all getting ridiculous. Cops shouldn't be able to shoot people just because they were 'reaching' for something. Are cops worried that they won't have the reaction speed to shoot first if the guy is actually pulling out a gun? If you're already aiming at a guy, and see him pulling a gun out, it should be a fairly trivial matter to shoot him first. Most of the time it seems to be a freaking phone, their wallet or some other benign object. Cops should be held to the same 'deadly force' standards that the rest of us are. I would be in serious shit if I shot someone on the street just because they were reaching into their pocket.

Other cases are even less understandable, such as why they shot the man in the photo when he was pinned to the ground by TWO cops. Who gives a shit if he had a gun? He sure wasn't gonna get it with two cops pinning him down. The cops then shot him 6x in the chest...
Then there are cases like this...
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/...id=mailsignout
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Old 07-07-2016, 11:54 PM #1510
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Actually people did expect this kind of stuff. I still fully expect the bridges and tunnels to be targeted in the future for example, because it would absolutely cripple NYC.

Before Timothy McVeigh trucks were not really considered a threat... that has certainly changed now, but still remains the largest threat imo. Renting a fairly large truck in the US, literally takes nothing but a credit card, and a license.
One thing that is vastly different between mcVeigh and the 9/11 attacks was that he actually survived his attack as planned. He was caught and later executed, but could possible have gotten away alive.

These attacks are still possbile surely. You could rent a u-haul, stuff in with amfo and park it on a brige, in a tunnel or next to some high value target, and then detonate it remotely or by timer.

So we should be ware of trucks parked in unusal places and such. I guess we are by now.

The problem with islamic terrorists is that they will not park. They will drive their explosive-laden truck over a bridge or into a tunnel or building, and blow it up whilst still at the wheel.

Realistically there is little to do about this, people just moving loads drive all over the place doing their legitmate business. It would be very difficult to spot an explosive one since as long as they just seem to be driving from a to b there is nothing suspicious.

I'm affraid it's something we will have to get used to to some degree, and apparently people can. Think of places like isreal where at times random cars, vans and such used to explode all over the place. People didn't hide in their basements there.
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:19 AM #1511
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Where were the riots and protests for LaVoy Finicum?




I can tell you things are not the same on the poor side of town as they are in the swank neighborhoods, I have seen it.

Poor people don't take legal action after being violated or handled roughly. But cell phone videos and the internet are changing things, however the inequity has been there a long time and it divides us, because who enforces the law when the law enforcers are the criminals?

When the Justice department shelters the guilty in plain view it will not help anyone, the people will lose respect for the law and the police will lose respect for the people.

I really think Hillary could shoot a white man on live TV and get away with it because she did not intend to break the law.


What has been happening on the poor side of town may be coming to the nicer areas too as we give up our rights in order to be supposedly protected from the terrorist.

Lack of accountability is spreading across the socio economic barrier.
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Old 07-08-2016, 05:19 AM #1512
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Well I hope some of you have been watching TV news all evening like I have. I have been wondering if this would happen sooner or later. And it happened in Dallas tonight during an otherwise peaceful protest. This is a disaster of cosmic proportions, no telling what will happen in the aftermath of this! 11 officers shot, 4 dead so far.

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Old 07-08-2016, 06:22 AM #1513
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Yes I have been watching it, the black guy in the camo shirt with the partial beard that was walking around with a rifle gave the Islamic 1 finger hand gesture to the camera man who was recording him walk by, it looks like the " ONE GOD " Islamic hand gesture, it starts at 19 seconds into the video and is replayed.

Also watching cop #11 when he was shot the terrorist moved with suppressive fire and flanked the crouching officer, these terrorist seem to have some training and this was obviously planned.

I know Barry will try to make this about gun control, but we know laws that only law abiding citizens obey won't stop a bit of what's to come, I am afraid we will see a lot more of this.

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Old 07-08-2016, 07:15 AM #1514
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Yes I have been watching it, the black guy in the camo shirt with the partial beard that was walking around with a rifle gave the Islamic 1 finger hand gesture to the camera man who was recording him walk by, it looks like the " ONE GOD " Islamic hand gesture, it starts at 19 seconds into the video and is replayed.
A 5th police officer has died now. That guy apparently was with friends I saw them asked questions with some reporter and they are students somewhere and went there together and claim they were all together when the shooting happened, a couple of them looked like Moslems, one for sure, don't know if that means anything in this case. They said after the shooting they went to the nearest police and had him hand over his rifle so they wouldn't shoot him, apparently he did and they let him go, he turned himself in later after they were showing his picture on the news.

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Old 07-08-2016, 08:18 AM #1515
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

This guy is still a mystery, was he involved or not?

This is how he was arrested.

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Old 07-08-2016, 08:27 AM #1516
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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This guy is still a mystery, was he involved or not?

This is how he was arrested.

Is that the camo guy who was open carrying an AR-15 at the rally (or whatever it actually was, the media loves to call all scary rifles AR-15s)? I'm pretty sure he was confirmed to not be a shooter.
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Old 07-08-2016, 08:33 AM #1517
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Yes I believe that's him, but I don't think he was involved because they have 3 in custody, a woman and 2 men from the Mercedes they pulled over with the camo duffel bag, also the last shooter who was posted up in the building is dead now, self inflicted they said.

So it appears this guy was not involved but we shall see.
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Old 07-08-2016, 02:34 PM #1518
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

What happened is a tragedy and a heinous crime that should be punished, but it did not happened in a vacuum, and I am surprised it has taken so long.

The longer the current systems fail to reform, the more crimes like these will take place. You can bet your ass one big reason this happened, is people no longer feel any confidence in the police, and by extension the government. They see day in and day out cops shooting unarmed men, saying "I feared for my life" and usually taking paid leave, and often also retiring with full, generous benefits.

So while I do not for a second condone what was done, I do feel that to a great degree existing cop culture, the blue line, the blue wall of silence, is greatly to blame for it, and this is just the start.
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Old 07-08-2016, 03:06 PM #1519
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
What happened is a tragedy and a heinous crime that should be punished, but it did not happened in a vacuum, and I am surprised it has taken so long.

The longer the current systems fail to reform, the more crimes like these will take place. You can bet your ass one big reason this happened, is people no longer feel any confidence in the police, and by extension the government. They see day in and day out cops shooting unarmed men, saying "I feared for my life" and usually taking paid leave, and often also retiring with full, generous benefits.

So while I do not for a second condone what was done, I do feel that to a great degree existing cop culture, the blue line, the blue wall of silence, is greatly to blame for it, and this is just the start.
Agreed. The police just kept pushing and they finally got some pushback last night. What happened last night wasn't the 'right kind' of action, but our government has simply been refusing to reign in out-of-control police across the nation. Looks like some citizens finally got fed up and took matters into their own hands. My condolences for any good police who were hurt/killed last night.
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Old 07-08-2016, 07:19 PM #1520
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Unfortunately it seems as usual, instead of acknowledging that the shooting is at least partially a symptom of systemic problems with policing, and a backlash to them, cop spokespeople are doubling down hard. Attacking BLM, Obama, and anyone that doesn't give them blanket respect and support. Continuing to pushing the very blatantly false narrative of the war on cops.

Police group director: Obama caused a 'war on cops' - POLITICO
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