Old 07-04-2016, 09:39 PM #1489
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by Sta View Post
Tobacco is, in effect, banning itself. It is no longer 'cool' among young people to smoke; vaping, which is far less dangerous, has become much more popular. Within a few decades I suspect it will be almost totally replaced.
Vaping has it's own stigma attached though. Have you ever heard the term "Mouth fedora"?

Smoking is still "cooler" than vaping, and will probably remain that way for quite a while unfortunately.

/derail


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Old 07-04-2016, 09:47 PM #1490
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by H2Oxide View Post
Vaping has it's own stigma attached though. Have you ever heard the term "Mouth fedora"?

Smoking is still "cooler" than vaping, and will probably remain that way for quite a while unfortunately.

/derail
Big Tobacco and Uncle Sam don't like losing money to vapers, it's going to get some legislation, expect big scare tactic penalties and big taxes.

They actually want to regulate the vaping devices.

Vaping is safer and in England they promote it, but here they want the money, they would rather people smoke the cigarettes because it's only the money they care about.
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Old 07-05-2016, 12:33 AM #1491
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Vaping is one of those things that basically came from the people, not the government, and they are now struggling to deal with.

Cigarettes have big health impacts but also big excise tax returns for governments, and the added benefit of people dying earlier saving on pension payments and possibly on healthcare costs (though that's debatable).

One problem is that vaping is difficult to tax: even if you wanted to tax e-liquids and such the people won't have it and order it from abroad. Since the shipments are very compact compared to say cartons of cigarettes it is very difficult to intercept them as well.

As for it being 'cool' i cannot really judge. I've tried it, also with some mad modded devices (which i did not own) that make you blow a cloud that'd put most consumer grade smoke machines to shame.

I'd say: have fun with it. I may not be harmless, but compared to smoking cigarettes it will be less harmful without a doubt. Doing neither surely is even better for your health, but given the choice between the two, vape.
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Old 07-05-2016, 06:04 AM #1492
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

California Governor Jerry Brown recently signed a law making vaping illegal in all the same places as smoking.

What they want to do is ban the un taxed vaping devices so everyone has to buy tax stamped disposables that have been through a lengthy and expensive FDA approval.
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Old 07-05-2016, 05:27 PM #1493
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

It really does come down to revenue. While I keep hearing about a stigma associated with vaping, the reality is the stigma is all from cigarettes. People see a bunch of "smoke" they assume it is smoke, and not harmless vapor. For the most part I have personally seen a far stronger reaction from older people, and virtually none from anyone under ~40.

Now I'm not opposed to some regulation, where vaping is concerned, specifically, with regard to making sure known harmful compounds are not used in making the fluid, but the regulations being pushed on companies are absurdly strict. Which has the effect of just driving away local business.
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Old 07-05-2016, 06:19 PM #1494
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Meh, the US vaping market will end up like the high powered laser market.

We will just source what we need/want from overseas and rely on a handful of trusted US black market distributors.



I had no interest in "vape" tell they decided to regulate/outlaw it.

Now as well as providing a host for some "510 Laser Modules" and a Cree flashlight module, I'm going to get an atomizer for my mechanical mod and learn how to make my own e-liquids.



To add to that my "illegal vape kit" will magically become "legal marijuana paraphernalia" as soon as the new Montana MJ law (that fixes some stupidity from the last time the law was revised) is passed this year.
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Old 07-05-2016, 06:49 PM #1495
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

While I do expect vaping to become more regulated, taxed, and expensive, I don't think it will go the way of lasers.

There are already many many successful businesses, vape shops, who are extremely vocal proponents, and nothing about vaping is inherently illegal.

As for illegal vape kit turning to legal marijuana kit? Good luck with that. You're at the mercy of your local tax raising gestapo no matter what you do.
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Old 07-05-2016, 08:25 PM #1496
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

This thread is supposed to be "Gun Discussion".



I can see politics creeping into this thread from time to time, but vaping no. Back on topic.

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Old 07-05-2016, 09:01 PM #1497
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

While I don't like to see threads completely derailed, it started off on the subject of Guns, and regulations, and for the most part has stayed there. Vaping is an interesting litmus test that applies well where regulation is concerned, as is weed.
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:19 PM #1498
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Discussions can go a bit of track around the non-laser parts, right?
And it still has to do with regulation and such

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
While I do expect vaping to become more regulated, taxed, and expensive, I don't think it will go the way of lasers.
I doubt vaping will be taxed, but it could be regulated like smoking banning people from doing so in bars and such - which is the niche where people that just want a smoke don't want to go outside etc.

Vaping supplies will be hard to stop by customs: the devices are quite small and could be labeled like any other electronics part on customs declarations. The amount of liquid required is also very small and could be declared as 'nail polish' or something similar.

Getting a couple of cartons of cigarettes to slip through postal customs can be fairly hard (though far from impossible), getting an electronic cigarette and/or a months worth of e-liquid will be very easy.

If they want to allow legal, taxed, vaping, it would be quite difficult to tell the people doing that apart from the ones using black market devices and/or liquids. I don't think it's likely that police will go around and arrest people using imported vaping devices either: These are not illegal substances, just a case of tax evasion.

The war on drugs isn't working as it is, neither is the war on illegal firearms, powerful lasers and what not, so they really do not need another pointless ban to police.
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:37 PM #1499
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benm View Post
Discussions can go a bit of track around the non-laser parts, right?
And it still has to do with regulation and such



I doubt vaping will be taxed, but it could be regulated like smoking banning people from doing so in bars and such - which is the niche where people that just want a smoke don't want to go outside etc.

Vaping supplies will be hard to stop by customs: the devices are quite small and could be labeled like any other electronics part on customs declarations. The amount of liquid required is also very small and could be declared as 'nail polish' or something similar.

Getting a couple of cartons of cigarettes to slip through postal customs can be fairly hard (though far from impossible), getting an electronic cigarette and/or a months worth of e-liquid will be very easy.

If they want to allow legal, taxed, vaping, it would be quite difficult to tell the people doing that apart from the ones using black market devices and/or liquids. I don't think it's likely that police will go around and arrest people using imported vaping devices either: These are not illegal substances, just a case of tax evasion.

The war on drugs isn't working as it is, neither is the war on illegal firearms, powerful lasers and what not, so they really do not need another pointless ban to police.
Pointless bans make the sheeple 'feel better'. The sheeple get spooked when they hear about some new danger on the news and they just want some kind of 'action' on the issue. Then they can go to bed at night relieved to know that 'something' is being done about the new menace.
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:52 PM #1500
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

That may be true, but those people don't really care about if what is being done is in any way effective or even enforced.

This sort of takes it back to firearms: those are banned throughout western europe really, but criminals seem to have plenty of them. Many guns are not pre-ban relics either, but often fairly recent ones that came from conflict zones or even stolen from army and police depots.

One thing that bans do is drive up (black) market prices. The price for an illegal handgun in europe is probably comparable to that of a clean unregistered gun in the US, but there is no legal alternative for people that want one solely for self defense.

Exact numbers on illegal weapons are not available, but estimates are that there is an illegal firearm in the netherlands for every 20 citizens or so. This is an overall very low rate of gun ownership, but how many -illegal- firearms are in the US? I wouldn't be surprised if the availability was comparable.
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Old 07-06-2016, 12:02 AM #1501
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

It's not illegal to make your own guns in America, at least not in most States. But no full auto's or AOW's or banned destructive devices of course.

In the case of the AR-15 you can buy everything except the receiver without any paperwork and you can buy 80% finished receivers as well.

I recommend everyone who can build a few just for the fun of doing it.

The AR is a fun platform as there are so many upgrades and you can swap uppers in seconds, just don't put a pistol upper on a serialized rifle lower, if you finish your own you can make it a rifle or a pistol, a taste of freedom for a moment.






Shotguns are very easy as are any slam fires......stock up on ammo today, maybe plant some and see if you can grow an ammo tree.





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Old 07-06-2016, 04:03 AM #1502
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
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Why would it be exceptionally difficult to defeat an enemy that is willing to die?

It's just a change of mindset. We are used to enemies that are pretty much like us - warriors that are willing to take some risk to accomplish a task but would avoid doing anything that results in certain death.

We have always dealt within that assumption, even if the other person was quite malicious. One older safety example is not to let peoples' checked in bags onto planes when they do not board them themsevels. Logic dictated that people would never blow up a plane in flight if they were on it, since back then planes were usually hijacked for ransom, political goals etc.

Times have changed and we get suicide bombers now that obviously expect to die in the act. One technological countermeasure would be to create some (emp?) device that detonates bomb vests at a perimiter around busy places like airports and stadiums.

The way we though of such assaults has long been 'how would i go about doing that (preferably without getting caught)' and then come up with some countermeasure. The new method of thinking is 'how would a suicidal maniac go about that'.

Perhaps we should hire some suicidal maniacs to come up with the ideas - until they actually commit suicide they would probably enjoy a regular paycheck...
A man will not die for a regular paycheck or a medal or a ribbon, he must believe in something.

It is the cause, not the death, that makes the martyr. We can only defeat them as long as we out number them.

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Old 07-07-2016, 12:33 AM #1503
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Sensible people will probably outnumber suicidal maniacs for quite a while unless we really mess things up.

As far as paying them to devise plans and such: this would not involve anyone dying, but letting people brainstorm on attack plans and such in which case it doesn't matter if they survive or not.

This goes back to 9/11 obviously, noone really expected that anyone would commandeer an aircraft to crash it while being on board himself. Such things never really crossed our minds before that, since it would not do the attacker any good. Now we know that assumption to be wrong, but i think it required the scenario actually taking place for people consider it as a real world problem.
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Old 07-07-2016, 01:49 PM #1504
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Police state + rookie cop = lives destroyed.

If you get pulled over and are packing, keep your hands on the steering wheel or the dashboard and tell the cop you are carrying, put them at ease, I have done this when going to Biloxi to piss money away at the casinos and the cop appreciated my respect and let me go with a warning for speeding.

I have also seen young cops panic so use your head.

Still this police state mentality is a glimpse of what's to come with socialism.

Barry has set race relations back, remember : " If they want to destroy let them destroy " and telling cops to stand down for rioters. This has the effect of putting cops on edge as well as people.

Barry has made things worse by unbalancing and egging on racial tension and protest when he should be balancing and inspiring peace and tolerance.

This police state mentality would get worse under Hillary, I guarantine it.

As rights are set aside for our own good we will see more aggressive intrusion without probable cause and more push back from abused citizens resulting in a vicious circle of escalation and distrust.

Division of the masses in order to control them. Sadly only citizens and police pay the price.



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Last edited by RedCowboy; 07-07-2016 at 02:48 PM.
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