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Old 01-24-2013, 09:32 PM #129
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Not a chance. Too many people depend on caffeine to function... myself included. I can go without it, sure, but it would not be fun.

We are likely to see regulation on energy drinks though. Restricting the sale of such drinks to kids... requiring them to be at least 18 for purchase, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

I mean for an adult, 480mg of caffeine is really not all that much... in all of these cases, there is usually another factor in play, usually an ignored/un-diagnosed pre-existing condition.


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Old 01-24-2013, 09:47 PM #130
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

As said above, the parents should be held responsible for what their children do. This isn't the companies fault. The kid drank to much and had a heart condition. I would say she did us all a favor by stopping the spread of her family defects... People should be held responsible for their actions and need to be tought this at a young age. If you can't finish high school, then maybe you should be clipped to prevent the spread of stupid...
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:00 PM #131
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

That's a very, very, slipper slope. I do believe the parents should be held responsible here, not the company.

At the same time though, the current system of regulation for these products does not work, and caffeine is addictive, and can be dangerous. (As can anything.)

What would be great to see, is a very simple form of regulation - prohibit sales to those under 18. Problem solved.

Unfortunately instead we'll see some BS about more warnings, and I'm sure another agency, committee, and more bureaucracy will be created.

Meanwhile in Washinton DC, a man faces charges for trying to help a kid.... D.C. man who shot dogs biting boy could face charges - Washington Times
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:05 PM #132
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Thats ridiculous. Some DA is going to get an easy conviction out of this guy to raise his status towards being a judge someday. It will prob ruin this guys life.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:11 PM #133
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Yup. I was torn on whether to post that in the Fail Thread or here.

While Daguin is technically right;

Quote:
That which is not prohibited is allowed
Present day reality is, the opposite is true, and we live in a society with extreme over-crimimalization, where most commit "crimes" without ever knowing about it.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:20 PM #134
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Present day reality is, the opposite is true, and we live in a society with extreme over-crimimalization, where most commit "crimes" without ever knowing about it.
Soon enough we will be alerted of the unknown crimes we commit. They already mail us tickets from stop light cameras, just wait till the drones over head are busting us for every little law in the book. Maybe they will even post the video on our facebook so everyone you know, will know, what you have done...
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:46 PM #135
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Certainly possible. I think though, drones do make some sense. They can be much cheaper for police departments to field, versus a helicopter fleet.

Personally I'm more worried that the tracking of our movement, via gps enabled phones, and cell tower location tracking, will the next big ticket racket.

I remember being a long drive, highway I know well - meaning I know where the cops like to hide - I sped up quite a bit. Completely empty road, sunny day, perfect driving conditions, definitely no danger to anyone including myself.

So what shocked me, was my phone navigator, through AT&T starts showing the speed limit flashing in red. Now imagine that information is relayed to the state troopers...

Oh, and btw, almost all new cars now have EDR - event data recorders. They record a short period of time, in a loop, back, to track what happens in the event of a crash.

Here's the problem as I see it... only a matter of time until these can also be scrutinized by traffic cops, on the road.

Lastly, this is already happening, cameras have been placed on some NYC buses. If the bus passes your car, and you are in any way blocking, or are in a no parking area, you get a ticket in the mail. Even if you didn't actually park...


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Old 01-24-2013, 11:58 PM #136
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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But, but, first weapons were likely blunt... like uhm rocks, and sticks.... Why don't we also ban the blunt heavy objects?


And, about your cellphone, im sure that information could be used in the future. When you drive through Georgia there are signs that say speed enforced by aerial drone and other parts say road sensors. Even Progressive offers discounts if you put there sensor in your car... Collecting your driving information while your cell phone logs exactly where you are...
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:54 AM #137
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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And, about your cellphone, im sure that information could be used in the future. When you drive through Georgia there are signs that say speed enforced by aerial drone and other parts say road sensors. Even Progressive offers discounts if you put there sensor in your car... Collecting your driving information while your cell phone logs exactly where you are...
Which leads us smack into the middle of the privacy debacle.

At present many of us, especially those in developed countries, are extremely reliant on technology services... email, gps, cell phones. Yet privacy laws with regards to these technologies are absolutely archaic.

At present, most email provides comply with government requests for email records, automatically. In fact it's actually an exception, that a warrant would be used to obtain private emails. At the same time, if said emails are stored locally, on your hard drive, all of a sudden a whole other set of protections apply, but still, STILL, not to the same extent that you would expect from sending a letter by snail mail.

So what do we have here...

1. Rights are systematically being eliminated.
2. Additional offenses (laws) are constantly being created.
3. Surveillance/monitoring capabilities are already far beyond any precedent, and only expanding.
4. People's ability to protect themselves is being removed...

Kind of hard not to draw conclusions...
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:51 AM #138
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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That a child starves to death, or is euthanized, is abhorrent to me, and unacceptable.

If an adult does not want to be responsible for him/her self, that is their choice. At the same time it is the choice of all others whether to take responsibility for said adult or not.
While we're playing the devil's advocate, here's some food for thought:

Children are the least valuable class of humans, as they are the class we have least invested in. After all, they've existed the least amount of time, have the least education, and have the least productivity. The legal system seems to agree, as an infant is a class that is least valuable in terms of compensation. Children are also easily replaced, and their replacements quickly achieve the same status.

Therefore, who we should really concentrate on are the adults that we have already invested so much in and who are already trained and educated. Sure there is "potential" in children, but that is like saying there is potential in land, versus established equity.

Quote:
Playing devil's advocate though... eugenics is logical, rational, and enforced population control is certainly something that will be a part of the future to a greater degree than it is now, or has been in the past. If small steps are taken now, steps that do not require drastic, draconian, and brutal policies, greater steps will not be needed in the future.
Well that depends on who is doing the culling and if you're meeting the criteria. Maybe we'll enforce a logical, rational, and enforced policy of ensuring that only taller men procreate. After all, there is a clear trend in height increase over the centuries that correlates with nutrition and advancement of the species in general. We won't allow any man shorter than 6ft to procreate to accelerate this natural process that has been undermined by unnatural processes such as love and desperation.

I'm not so sure how well that policy would fly with people though.

Quote:
So why is it, that someone who cannot, (based on their current net worth, income, and past fiscal history) get a small loan, should be allowed to have a child, they cannot reasonably support?
Well, mostly because children can be supported despite those things. Raising a child is not all about finances. In fact, the majority of it isn't.

Think about a stay-at-home mom: what is her net income? Zero. What is her value in the child's upbringing? That may extend far beyond whatever money she could earn.

Quote:
Devil's advovate - Yes it would absolutely mean poor people would not be able to have children. These are the same people that have kids NOW and can't support them. That a person can bring a child to this world, a child that would be forced to live in abject poverty, should be considered criminal, and punished as such.
Well poverty is relative. For example, income levels that qualify people in the US as "poverty level" are considered middle-class in Europe. People here rarely live in "abject poverty" but rather in financially fragile situations. That situation also exists for people in the "middle class."

Working on poverty in general would probably be a better use of resources as it would have side benefits across the board. Simply taking away the right to children is more like a bandaid.

Quote:
There is no simple answer to this question unfortunately. I do believe though that some minimum requirements should be met. Meaning a 16 year old high school dropout with no prospects of a career, and living at home, should not be allowed to have a child.
I'm sure she doesn't want one at that age either, but it happens. Usually it's a symptom of other problems. Education, social improvements, fighting poverty -- these things should be addressed, and the benefits will come after.

Quote:
If you're questioning psychology/psychiatry, are you not questioning the whole premise of mental health? Also you're kind of questioning the value of education altogether.
I'm questioning the ability of psychology to predict a person's future based on an incomplete history of others. More importantly, I question the ability for a psychologist to make life-altering decisions for another.

Quote:
Department of homeland security. TSA. Patriot Act. Apparently as a society we're quite willing to give up rights in exchange for security. Nor is the right to have a child expressly stated. The right to bear arms, is expressly stated.
Apparently some people are willing to give it up. They deserve neither security, nor freedoms, but should be relegated to a slave class that they seek.

I believe that the Constitution was built around the idea of "self-evident" rights, and that rights expressly granted or taken away are codified simply to lay down laws to base judgement. For all other things, there is no jurisdiction until laws are defined as a standards to follow. We don't, for example, have rights to breathe air expressly granted, and yet we don't assume that it is forbidden.

Our right to bear arms is partially to guard against a society degrading to such a debased state that we must ask our government for permission for all rights not expressly granted.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:09 PM #139
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Those who give up their rights and freedoms for the illusion of safety deserve neither.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:28 PM #140
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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While we're playing the devil's advocate, here's some food for thought:

Children are the least valuable class of humans, as they are the class we have least invested in. After all, they've existed the least amount of time, have the least education, and have the least productivity. The legal system seems to agree, as an infant is a class that is least valuable in terms of compensation. Children are also easily replaced, and their replacements quickly achieve the same status.

Therefore, who we should really concentrate on are the adults that we have already invested so much in and who are already trained and educated. Sure there is "potential" in children, but that is like saying there is potential in land, versus established equity.
I see your point, and present to you a counter argument...



I'll come back for the rest later... just thought the picture was very fitting.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:50 PM #141
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by HitShane View Post
Ban All Sharp Objects | causes.com

I guess we are all little children and big brother is looking out for us...
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
But, but, first weapons were likely blunt... like uhm rocks, and sticks.... Why don't we also ban the blunt heavy objects?
Murder weapon stat's from 2009:

knives and other "cutting" implements = 1825
hands, fists, feet, etc. = 801
clubs, hammers, etc. = 611

all rifles (includes the subset of assault rifles) = 348

So . . . .
"low tech/no tech" murder weapons = 3237
"assault" rifles = <348

Peace,
dave
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:58 PM #142
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Yup, those FBI statistics you linked to in one of the previous posts were certainly enlightening. I've passed them on several times now, each time to have people react with surprise and disbelief.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:38 PM #143
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

" A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them. Which would include their own government." George Washington. I have the same view.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:53 AM #144
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Confounding variable?



Peace,
dave

**EDIT** -- A new "crack-down" in the UK = The "Knives End Lives" campaign

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...crackdown.html
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