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Old 02-02-2016, 04:26 PM #1281
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

There is no sense to it, but the concept is around SBRs being an NFA item.
A short barrel rifle could be more easily concealed under say a trench coat and it would have shoulder fired accuracy with pistol concealability.
But I am stretching to give validity to a law that is idiotic.

Your pistol grip shotgun is still held with 2 hands but not shouldered.

I suppose the weaver stance where you hold your pistol with 2 hands should be illegal? I mean you are holding it with 2 hands.

But mostly it was part of the gun control act making SBR's a controlled item, that's why you can't put a forward grip on a pistol, or shoulder the sig brace, however you can hold the buffer tube or sig brace against your cheek/face.

Basically is does nothing but infringe our right, it's just a way to tell people what they can and can't do, it's a starting point, it makes a weapon no less deadly.

The BATFE wrote a judgement letter saying the sig arm brace was legal, then they went back and said it's legal as long as you don't hold it against your shoulder....WHAT kind of mickey mouse twilight zone rubber stamp kangaroo government are we paying so much money for, this is not a defendable law, yet if they decided to grab some poor bastard at the range he has to hire lawyers and fight it.

The BATFE actually retracted their original ruling and now say the sig brace is legal to own and have on your pistol length AR pistol and you can hold it against your face, but not your shoulder. Wha....

I know every criminal about to commit a crime will stop when holding that against their shoulder and move it a few inches so it's against their face....SARCASTICLY I SAY!

Now sawed off shotguns have more spread, yet you can buy a 410 pistol.

Then you can have folding stocks but not a rifle length barrel pistols, yet my ruger 10/22 with buttler creek folding stock is essentially a pistol grip rifle, only the stock folds so it's legal.

What happened is they wrote moronic laws, but could not include basic features that already existed making their core concept completely futile.
Except they can screw someone for not knowing you can't put a shoulder stock on your pistol.

It all comes down to a few inches one way or the other, it's nothing but a starting point for control where they are violating the supreme law of our land, the Constitution.

Now get this, we are innocent until proven guilty, well Hillary is, but if I have an AR lower with a rifle buffer tube but sold my 16 inch upper while waiting for my new upper to be delivered, yet I have a 12 inch upper but no lower with a pistol tube buffer then simply because I have in my possession a rifle lower by definition of the buffer tube having a rib on it that 12 inch pistol upper means I have the ability to put it on that lower and violate that ridiculous law that does nothing and I am guilty of being able to commit a " crime " even though I have not.

It's like saying because I have a penis if there is a woman in the same room that I am guilty of being able to commit rape even though I have no criminal history, it's a violation of innocent until proven guilty.

This stuff has gotten beyond ridiculous and they are adding crap all the time.
A prohibited person is not just a violent felon who has been convicted, or someone judged mentally insane, but anyone convicted of domestic violence which in California means raising your voice at your brother when debating the football game.

If neighbors call the cops because they heard yelling and you and your brother raised your voices while debating the football game that's domestic violence.

It's all about excluding people so they will have less people fighting against unjust laws because they have been prohibited.

Now my Chinese MAK-90 has a thumbhole stock and I can buy a new rifle just like it with a pistol grip and folding stock, but to change my stock I have to make the rifle 922r compliant by changing out a certain number of parts to US made parts. WHAT THE FRICK?

Also if my AK receiver has a hole drilled whwere the interruptor would go, even though the bolt is not grooved and has a semi auto seer it is illegal simply because it has that hole, even if the factory put a rivet through it.

I can build my own AR, mill the receiver myself, but I can not put a hole in a place where a part I don't own could go.

This stupidity goes on and on, you have to know the laws and your state's laws, and if you travel you have to stop at the state line and move your pistol from inside the car into the trunk depending on the state you are in, other places if you don't live there you are legal but if you live there you are not.

It is insanity. It's all about chipping away at peoples rights one insane little regulation that carries the weight of law made by an alphabet agency without our vote, it's past time to abolish all these alphabet agencies and go back to our constitution.
It's getting to the point like in Connecticut where 10's of thousands of people flat out refuse to comply with unjust illegal unconstitutional infringements, working family members who are upstanding members of the community are overnight felons, yet nothing is being done as they would start a revolution, but if the police go to one persons house for whatever reason and find an outlawed weapon, they they crucify that 1 person.

Just like I tell you it will come to the point where everyone on the interstate is speeding and anyone can be picked off as we are all guilty, except the 1 guy going 50 mph who is guilty of impeding the flow of traffic even though the minimum is 40 he is still impeding, damned if you do or don't, everyone is guilty, nobody has a voice or any recourse, except when people who know are on the jury, and they nullify unjust law and find fellow citizens not guilty.

That and everyone is in violation of the laws but they are just not enforced because nobody obeys them, but this is not how we want to live, because anyone can be crucified for speaking out, not that speaking is illegal, but everything else is.


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Old 02-02-2016, 07:53 PM #1282
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

On that subject...

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Old 02-03-2016, 12:40 AM #1283
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I have shot my 12ga Mossberg 500 holding it by the pistol grip and with heavier loads it can make your wrist sore at the end of the day, but for safety you should always keep both hands on the weapon, unless you only have 1 arm.


Basically shouldering the weapon transfers recoil into your body and typically makes for more accurate shooting. Firing prone "laying on stomach" and shouldered is an inherently accurate field expedient shooting position, it makes you less of a target if in battle than standing or even firing elbow on knee from a squatting position, although elbow to knee makes for a faster egress.

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Old 02-03-2016, 12:53 AM #1284
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

big number of fails w/handgun-

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Old 02-03-2016, 02:54 AM #1285
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Thermite, SCAR 16s, tannerite, methanol and boric acid... Things that go boommm. Wee bit of chemistry. Can I leave my video here?


The clip at 1m.30s actually brought 3 fire trucks and two state troopers. They approached us guns drawn. Poor timing. The Boston bombing what the day before and tensions were tight in New England. Everything was smoothed out after some conversation.
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:50 AM #1286
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Down with Umbrella View Post
Thermite, SCAR 16s, tannerite, methanol and boric acid... Things that go boommm. Wee bit of chemistry. Can I leave my video here?

The clip at 1m.30s actually brought 3 fire trucks and two state troopers. They approached us guns drawn. Poor timing. The Boston bombing what the day before and tensions were tight in New England. Everything was smoothed out after some conversation.
I try to avoid dealing with EMs, though I do know that you need a licence to manufacture and store some, if not all of them. (methanol and other common things are exempt of course)

I'd be careful with stuff like this, not only because it's dangerous as hell, but if you're on a watch list (as I presume several of us here are) then it's a gives the feds a valid reason to arrest you.

If you have your heart set on making EMs do yourself a favor and get a licence.
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:53 AM #1287
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Is anything still legal?

I read that we can buy tannerite in 2 parts and mix it at the time of personal, non commercial use, but we need a license to pre mix and store it?

Any info is appreciated, I buy fireworks twice a year but I don't make any, I would like to know the actual law though.
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Old 02-03-2016, 08:56 AM #1288
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

IE, that is too funny thanks for posting it
Red, for a minute I thought I had same model Mossbreg but mine doesn't have the heat shield and now I remember it was labeled as the Police issue riot gun. I got it in the mid 80,s so it has a plain wooden stock. I will say even resting tight on my shoulder I always got a bruise on it when having fun with those mag shells worth it my friend.
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:21 PM #1289
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
Is anything still legal?

I read that we can buy tannerite in 2 parts and mix it at the time of personal, non commercial use, but we need a license to pre mix and store it?

Any info is appreciated, I buy fireworks twice a year but I don't make any, I would like to know the actual law though.
Again, I'm not too familiar with energetics, though I don't believe there are any restrictions on binary explosives such as tannerite as long as they not being distributed or sold. I'm not sure if you need a licence to store them, though you can probably find out in 27 CFR Part 555, Subpart K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.atf.gov/explosives/binary-explosives
Mixing binary components together constitutes manufacturing explosives. Persons manufacturing explosives for their own personal, non-business use only (e.g., personal target practice) are not required to have a Federal explosives license or permit.
I'm not sure why this is allowed, as the Application for Explosives Licence or Permit has spaces for "manufacure", even for low explosives. Oh well, take what you can get I guess.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, the feds are really after the guys making PETN and RDX, but if you want to play it safe (which I would advise) then I'd call the ATF Licencing Center.
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Old 02-03-2016, 07:34 PM #1290
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Thanks for checking, I know the binary targets are legal up to 50 pounds at once, mixed at the time of use by a non felon for personal, non commercial use.

My point earlier is that it's not rocket science, it's just fuel and an oxidizer.
In the case of the OCB it was ANFO and how do we outlaw fertilizer and diesel?

Anyone willing to do a little reading and experiment could do massive damage, no background check needed.

As for fireworks we just last year got aerial shells, for decades my neighboring States on both sides had them and many people here would go 100 miles to buy at massive state line fireworks warehouses and set them off here New Years and 4th of July the law be damned.

So finally we get to have them legally with a 5% additional tax on top of 7% plus the special 1% and the non food/medical 3% .

16% tax on top of all the hidden tax paid for with money that's been heavily taxed already.......what were we talking about, taxes blowing up was it?

Anyway BP is legal to buy and fireworks are legal to buy so I wonder could a person legally make their own displays?

It's not worth the trouble to me and I understand safe handling would be important so as not to burn up your neighborhood, I was just curious if anyone knew the letter of the law for the sake of curiosity, I'm not making anything but if a person decided they wanted to a person could obtain all that would be needed without a background check, making my earlier point that laws passed only effect the law abiding.

But playing on the fears of the ignorant to illegally disarm the law abiding who only wish to protect themselves and their families has nothing at all to do with public safety and everything to do with big brother having a monopoly on readily available legal to own force.

Big brother backs up every little traffic ticket with the threat of force if ye fail to comply and would rather the peasants/sheeple/wage slaves who wish to be in compliance were less able at the drop of a hat to mount any formidable resistance, after all it's a dam nuisance having to be polite to the peasants when violating their personal space that they work like slaves to pay for and god they make such a fuss about their dam rights, we simply must get control of that dam internet...fear not, the next Hillary ever elected will work quite diligently on that.

What were we talking about? Oh yes knowledge, it's not illegal yet, but I have heard it tossed around that Mr. citizen had Boom making knowledge....well fxxk me, so do you all now, fuel and oxidizer, a little reading and you will find that 34-0-0 bags of AN from any garden department and diesel Fuel oil initiated via concussive primer, OH dear God Don't google that you criminals! Now your in possession of boom making knowledge, quick run and hide.
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Old 02-03-2016, 08:03 PM #1291
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Yes, it's possible to make explosives without a background check/permit, and someone could potentially do a lot of damage.

You can buy fuel tablets that contain hexamine (the primary ingredient in RDX, the explosive in C4) over the counter for less than $5. If someone was forming a resistance, knowledge would be their ally, not access to special materials.

If you look up "Megalomania'a Controversial Chem Lab" (please don't) you can find a single PDF with synths for dozens of high-explosives, most of which can be made with common, over the counter materials.

It IS legal to make them with a permit, but the people doing harm aren't going to care about a permit. People will always be able to make things go "boom" if they're determined to.
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Old 02-03-2016, 08:36 PM #1292
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

The brainwashed kids/idiots/monsters that set of the pressure cooker filled with fireworks BP and shrapnel at the Boston Marathon used a very low tech approach and still horribly crippled people.

He could have done much worse.

A word of caution to knowledge seekers/experimenters, some internet reading material may leave out crucial steps, such as critical temperatures during manufacturing of something complex that can get you killed, so if you don't know what you are doing then don't!

Also many things man has learned to make produce very toxic fumes, or so I have read/heard/believe, so again if you don't know 100% what you're doing don't!
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:04 PM #1293
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
The brainwashed kids/idiots/monsters that set of the pressure cooker filled with fireworks BP and shrapnel at the Boston Marathon used a very low tech approach and still horribly crippled people.

He could have done much worse.
Yes, there were only 3 actual casualties from bombing. A properly designed explosive could have multiplied that number by 10, especially considering the density of the crowds. There were several more injured, but injury is not the point of an explosive.

Fighting off a military with pressure cooker bombs would be like fighting a fire with a squirt gun, it just wouldn't be effective. I don't believe things are going to get bad enough to spark and armed revolution that would cause such an action, but who knows?

As for the manufacture of these things, simply DON'T unless you have a damn good reason to. Not only is it highly illegal without a permit, but if you improperly synthesize something, let's say good ol' nitroglycerin, you could end up with toxic NO flooding your lab or simply with a large hole and a lot of glass in you.
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:41 PM #1294
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Good Lord were all going to be on some type of watch list!

You'd be surprised what they actually know, once while working at a Lockheed Martin installation I was "red flagged". I later found out it was because I bought a long gun days before and they needed to do an investigation. 10 day later I was cleared to go to work.

The tannerite I obtained legally. The thermite ingredients were ordered from a pyrotechnic supplier. Those were ordered in <1lb quantities.
The truth is (I believe) if you're not doing anything criminal with these items you are less likely to get prosecuted.
A perfect example would be a potato gun. Are they LEGAL to own and make??? Gray area.
I don't think the police care if you're launching spuds out the back 40, however if you start making say, incendiary projectiles for the spudgun you might have a problem.

Back to the tannerite and other binaries. It's fine at the range. Tape ball bearings around it bring it to the mall and you're gonna get f$&@ed.
I believe discrepancy is used by the law(and often abused).
I don't feel nervous blowing things up in the back woods of Maine. Where I am in Illinois, absolutely not.

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Old 02-03-2016, 11:01 PM #1295
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Talking Re: Gun Discussion

Back in the 1970's, due to an interrupted retaliatory strike on a third party, we accidentally blew out the windshield of a friendly neighborhood police car, with some dynamite, which contained two friendly neighborhood police officers and their newly soiled trousers.

Said third party had blown a crater in my yard with their stash of dynamite, and I was ducked down in a friend's convertible, running lights off, lighting fuses so that I could throw the charges as we passed the target yard to make an analogous crater.

Unfortunately, the officers were responding to our target destination due to complaints that said target had been blowing craters in the neighborhood...and were parked, lights, off, in front of the target.



I saw the bar lights by the lights of the fuses as they passed over the cop car.


That qualified as an oh shit moment.


The charges landed and blew a nice crater, and the shock wave blew out the cops windshield.


We were torn between running for it and stopping in case the cops were hurt.

I decided to get out and make sure they were ok/see if they needed help.

My friend's boogied in a cloud of tire smoke....so I was the only one arrested.

On the plus side, they sort of got that I did get out to help...and I fixed the camera for them that they used for the mug shots...and we sort of worked things out.

In court it was presented to the judge as a forth of July fire cracker incident....despite actually occurring in August...and, no record (Yay).


I chalk it up to stupid crap I did as a teen, and got away with due to dumb luck.

That was of course when a bunch of teenagers could get a hold of dynamite sticks.


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Old 02-04-2016, 04:32 AM #1296
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Back in the 1970's, due to an interrupted retaliatory strike on a third party, we accidentally blew out the windshield of a friendly neighborhood police car, with some dynamite, which contained two friendly neighborhood police officers and their newly soiled trousers.

Said third party had blown a crater in my yard with their stash of dynamite, and I was ducked down in a friend's convertible, running lights off, lighting fuses so that I could throw the charges as we passed the target yard to make an analogous crater.

Unfortunately, the officers were responding to our target destination due to complaints that said target had been blowing craters in the neighborhood...and were parked, lights, off, in front of the target.



I saw the bar lights by the lights of the fuses as they passed over the cop car.


That qualified as an oh shit moment.


The charges landed and blew a nice crater, and the shock wave blew out the cops windshield.


We were torn between running for it and stopping in case the cops were hurt.

I decided to get out and make sure they were ok/see if they needed help.

My friend's boogied in a cloud of tire smoke....so I was the only one arrested.

On the plus side, they sort of got that I did get out to help...and I fixed the camera for them that they used for the mug shots...and we sort of worked things out.

In court it was presented to the judge as a forth of July fire cracker incident....despite actually occurring in August...and, no record (Yay).


I chalk it up to stupid crap I did as a teen, and got away with due to dumb luck.

That was of course when a bunch of teenagers could get a hold of dynamite sticks.

I worked with someone that intentionally threw firecrackers or some other form of small fireworks at a MP car on a military installation. Of course that didn't end well. He ended up being kicked out of the military for multiple reasons.
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