Old 01-30-2016, 02:35 AM #1265
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Regardless, they could have arrested him in town, doing this that way was asking for a circumstance to kill him far more than if they just arrested him at the meeting he was invited to go to by THEM.


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Old 01-30-2016, 02:39 AM #1266
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Yes lots, yes, and no, or probably not yet, given how my luck tends to go.

Since we're waxing philosophical on the subject, it bothers me to no end how gun shot injuries in particular, and all injuries in general are portrayed in movies and tv shows. Bullet to the side, no worries. Shoulder or leg? Still find to run with a limp or just grit teeth a bit more when hanging onto a ledge by that one shot up arm.
Well, it really depends upon where and with what. I was hit with a smooth garden variety western .45...no fragmentation...that is until it hit an iron pillar and shrank in stature. I did not feel a thing. I just had this sense of being moved. It was not until I looked down and saw blood pouring out that I knew something was amiss. When they pulled off the MAST trousers it was then I noticed that the bullet had gone through the other leg! Just after that I started going into shock...not pleasant. But there was no pain until the swelling started. I was lucky that my femurs were missed entirely.

Shotgun blasts to the head are different than a straight soft tissue injury because it is a closed cavity and the shear mass of all that shot causes an internal over pressure making for a rather large exit wound....made even worse if the point of election is the mouth...with that you have the gas contributing to the over pressure.
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Old 01-30-2016, 02:45 AM #1267
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
When the FBI and Oregon state police stopped Bundy and 5 others including driver LaVoy Fincium on their way to a town hall meeting, LaVoy went down pretty quick, he was not headshot as far as I can tell, likely a 40 cal to the chest, why these guys were not wearing body armor I don't know, this is from the Bundy/Oregon standoff Wednesday or Thursday that's been going on, some people are still holed up at the building.

Anyway this is the shortened video, LaVoy did not take time to bleed out, he likely took a heart, aorta, main internals hit.
He reached for a gun and then they shot him, not when he first got out, he reached for his pistol twice, he had said he would not go to jail.

Notice how nice the FBI drones are, lots of screen info blanked out, and the fireworks I think are flash bangs.

This really, really makes me ill. The issue was property rights. Nobody was robbed, assaulted, or killed by the protesters.

The OGSP carry Glock 22s so I suspect Cowboy you are right. He took one to the chest and that was it.

It makes you think that you could be traveling by car somewhere and stopped at the wrong time, wrong place, and by the wrong law enforcement authority....mistaken identity....pissed off cop....whatever....and you could wind up dead.
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:19 AM #1268
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Have never seen a firearm/bow wound in a human and I want to keep it that way. Have seen plenty in deer, varmints and small game before by pistol, rifle, bow and shotgun. The wound channels are widely varied by many factors for sure.

Tip of the day!! When field dressing a deer that you shot with a shotgun. Be careful that there is not a snapped off broadhead in the chest cavity of the deer. They tend to lay your hand wide open.
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:42 PM #1269
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

My fricken curiousity got the best of me and had to see that last video. I cant get that cops screams out of my head. Dam Dam Dam
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:32 PM #1270
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I am Sorry GSS, I took it down, but people should not get the idea in their head that LE can do anything with 100% certainty in the outcome, that's why they ambushed and arrested Bundy and friends before they got to the Town hall meeting they were invited too, Bundy and crew were supposed to be protected by many militia people but they were left all alone, they killed LaVoy Finicum and I hear it was 6 shots, 1 in his face, and they didn't waste much time doing that, but he's white so nothing will come of it.

We have people breaking the law in protest to a government whos entities are breaking the law, I see the faces of some of the local law enforcement at the news announcements and they look sick, like they understand but have to do what their told.

There is so much that's not on the national news that you can find on local news. Our government wants people to ignore this, they don't want people trying to stand up.

And I am SICK of hearing people say that they will fight a swat team at their house if uncle sam comes to take their guns, BULLSHIT!
99% will fold, that's why we stand together before it comes to that, the reality of small numbers standing against government is dead small numbers, if we don't put down the remote control and stop criminals like Hillary from getting away with anything then force will be brought upon those who don't do as they are told. If you don't go for your mandatory Obamacare physical and pay fines for being overweight/whatever then force will be brought against you, they will put you in a cage.

Ranchers live in big open areas, they have known the freedom we have forgotten, most of us city folk have already given up, and medical is so expensive, so we need big brother's help.
Expect mandatory Obamacare physicals, expect fines for being overweight/what ever. If you don't pay force will be brought against you and you get put into a cage.
Anything the government tells us to do is backed up with the threat of force, and when the government is not playing by the rules who fixes that? Our Executive branch? Barry? Hillary?






In short, people in positions of power must be held accountable.
They wanted to take away our cameras while they put theirs up but one immigrant judge stopped the cell phone cop wire tap bullshit assault on our freedom.
Now everyone has seen this video, without us watching it would have been swept under the rug.


This FAA toy airplane lawsuit is not about passenger jet safety, it's about citizens with flying cameras.
You saw the FBI drone footage, and their drones have crosshairs.......

We do not want to live in a world where only the government and the criminals have the guns, they tend to become one in the same and both have more respect for people when they know we can fight back against unjust force.
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Old 01-31-2016, 12:26 PM #1271
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Red, no reason to be sorry bud you put it on the proper thread and it was me that could of chose not to view it. Yes I mentioned and dweled on the screams of this poor officers death but never came back to say a whole load of other feelings that came over me. One being the killer side of me that ran a scenerio in my head of loading my shotgun and blasting this vet who obviously was a product of are crooked system before he could kill the cop. Alot of it was because I ran the thought of this cop dressing in the morning probably kissing his wife and kids not having a clue it would be the last day of his life. This vet I dont think fell through the cracks, they had to know he was sick "meaning authority, friends, doctors". and yes that young cop did wait to long and it cost him his life and many peoples sorrow.

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Old 01-31-2016, 12:52 PM #1272
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Yea it happens both ways and mistakes happen too. The 70 year old man in this video was reaching for his walking cane, he lived.
That's why when the people we trust intentionally screw us that it makes me so mad, Hillary is a murderer, from her legal firm in Arkansas to Benghazi she is calculating and cold blooded.
That crazy vet was at least crazy, and this nice cop here just made a mistake, the 70 year old man lived by the way, he was a vet too and deserves to be able to protect his home.

We cant let criminals in Washington use the acts of a few crazies set the bar for the rest of us, that would be even worse.
If we don't hold our elected officials accountable, then more good people will suffer, Harry Reid is a scumbag who would use force through the BLM to line his and his lawyer sons pockets, the lives of the ranchers he could care less about, and that kind of abuse breeds discontent like we see in Oregon.

I wont post it but I have videos where a young black man shoots a cop in the face when he walks up to the car window, but what's the chances that the young black shooter had been abused at the hands of a bad cop before? If it had happened at all it adds to the problem, respect is a two way street and what goes around comes around, so we can only be the good guys and if tested do what we must, but even if we can't do anything great for the history books we can at least not do any wrong, however good men cant stand by and allow evil either.
We are not innocent if we allow our elected representatives to do evil, it's our duty to restore balance for the future and each other.

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Old 02-01-2016, 08:52 AM #1273
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I didnt mention that in my scenerio that I was loading my gun with triple buck 3in. magnum shells, yes it was probably to do more damage to this "sick" vet than having a better chance of reaching him than bird shot. Where am I going with this is I think im trying to say is I might have folded under fear or blasted away all 5 shots with out a hit and got killed myself like people tend to do in real life unlike the movies and yes its coming from your statement that 99% will fold. Its not that im a coward but I have no shooting defense training and just shooting at a range or in a field doesn't cut it in that scene. Now if it was my home from a burgler maby I would defend, but because of this system saving myself or another human or man of the law I would be in jail
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:08 AM #1274
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I avoid trouble, walk away from idiots and hope that I never have to take a life, but if I must then I will use every advantage that I can, I'm not trying to be John Wayne I'm going to be John Win.

If I found myself under fire on the road outside of my truck I would hit the ground behind a wheel laying prone " flat on my stomach" and watch for shoes/boots and I would make Swiss cheese out of them until a larger part of the body hit the ground and then light it up too.

A few rounds of suppressive fire will make your attacker pause and duck for cover giving you a still target at his feet and possibly knees.

My EDC pistol is a Glock model 22 is .40 S&W and I do go to the range, I'm not the very best, but others do ask me for tips.

The standard magazine holds 15 rounds and my backup holds 22 more, I know some people like tiny guns for comfort, I like my glock, it's comfortable enough to me and I am comfortable with it.

Yes, a lot of people discover they are not so cool under fire, I know pawn shop owners who shot the floor during an armed robbery, lucky they missed their feet, they did hit the robbers, they killed them that day and it was justified, but they both shot the floor first.

I have good reflex playing paintball, but I know I'm not going to die, but I tell my self it's real and try to think like it is, it's a real rush, everyone should try it, not just to learn what to do but to learn what not to do.

In your home have a place at the end of the hallway or where you can lay low and wait for intruders, DO NOT go looking for them, let them come to you!

p.s. As for paint ball I haven't played in a while, I have a pinched nerve that gives me fits so I walk a lot but no more football or dirt bikes.
Anyway when we played we wore the strap on eye protection but no armor, just tee shirts and yes you get big nasty black and blue blisters and welts, but that makes you learn.

I remember once my buddy mike came around the bathrooms at this closed park we were playing in and I drilled him center chest, just flat instinct, his instinct was to run, I chased him shooting him in his backside. LOL
Then I was ducking behind my truck and he was behind a big green transformer, he would pop up and take a shot and I would duck, then I caught him sticking his head up and drilled him right in his forehead, He threw his gun down yelling Fxxk it I Quit I Quit!! Oh man I still laugh thinking about that, it is fun.
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:48 AM #1275
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I actually kinda recently realized that paint ball fights do hurt quite a bit but thats a plus for training and always thought as a "kid" when you get hit with a bullet with a vest on it bounces of you like superman. Hollywood does a number to some doesnt it? I once saw a reporter at a mans shop who came out with a new all kelvar vest and this reporter agreed to take a shot to the chest with a 38 but the man never told him how much pain he would feel. He keeled over in agony and was so pissed im surprised he didnt smack this guy right on camera. That is good advice to always wait for an intruder to come to you, and who else knows there home other than the owner, unless it someone you know who has been there before. I only have an FID card so i'm limited to rifles and shotguns but really have no need to carry or own a pistol but my brother in law has a carry permit and I can go to a range. I had told you before that my ruger 10 22 was my favorite but was deleted because it was on the wrong thread but my feelings are still the same. Just only recently on Alaskan State Troupers I learned that they were illegal hunters guns of choice for deer hunters because they could be bought cheap and disposed of if the law is cracking down. There are jerks everywhere just bringing bad to every situation what ever it be.....By the way Red is that glock .40 what police are carrying now instead of the 9mm?

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Old 02-01-2016, 12:39 PM #1276
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Yea it's the same pistol the police carry around here and the FBI went to the .40 after that Miami shootout where their 9mm hit but failed to take down that drug dealer before he killed an agent after being hit, but with modern hollow point ammo the 9mm will do just fine.

I don't carry every day, just when I walk late night, otherwise I carry a bright flashlight and pepper spray, mostly for the stray dogs. If there's a big unrest about some media thing then I carry, or if I'm going downtown.

I'm required to have a carry permit here in Ga. but we don't need anything to buy except a background check. But with a permit I get to skip the background check, I have to renew every 5 years. We used to have Constitutional open carry but it keeps changing, the good thing is with my permit I can carry any knife too, but I just carry a 4 inch Kershaw, they recently made it 5 inches and under State wide, before Atlanta was under 3 inches and statewide was a judgement call, However anyone non-felon can carry a loaded pistol in their car in plain view or in the glove box, permit holders van carry anywhere in their car loaded, but rifles can not be carried in cars loaded, however you can carry a loaded rifle over your shoulder loaded without a permit in Ga.

Every State is different and it's always changing. It's all wrong, we have a Constitutional right, but States pass laws treating it like a privilege.
I will stay legal and play by the rules as long as I can, but if we keep going the way we have been then in time everything will be illegal.
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:44 PM #1277
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I was talking to cop a while ago and he did tell me the issue with 9mm was to much velocity and no knock down power even with hollow tips but like you said that was a while ago and the ammo back then. I live in MA so you can imagine how hard it is to get a carry permit. Even I believe police officers have a hard time getting a seperate carry permit other than their required service pistol, I know it sounds stupid but i'm not sure exactly what the deal is. I saw a long time ago in the guns and ammo mag about that crank gizmo that hooks up to the trigger of the rugar 22 that makes it an basicly fully autonmatic but definitely stayed away from that but do have a few 30 round banana clips. My friend bought an uzi about 3 years before they were banned and just missed it when all they did to stop it from full auto was a tacked on tab that kept the safety switch from full auto that people were grinding off. His has the bolt mod that keeps it semi. Its more of a show piece though than being practical in a semi auto form. I'm going to end it by saying I do believe in very tough criminal searches and restrictions on how to carry. I dont think just a background should get you a pistol that you can put in your glove box or dashboard. Its just so unfare to law enforcement. Now in open and rural areas people should have the right to own at least a rifle in their homes wether for natures animals or intruder protection. Red you have every right to carry as you have passed a good backround check and have trained in firearms. Being your a good citizen I totally agree with your stance may the day come they try to disarm you......EDIT.....Sad Red very sad I have seen my father watch my mom his second wife to die of cancer in front of me, only to see my dad die in front of me also. Parents do pass in front of their children but to see your life partner go is on another level because thats the person you share the pain with. To hear about some evil human taking a life of someone who was loved and raised by a mother father is "wordless" To not let someone bear arms because 20 years ago they stole a piece of bread to feed their family is all it might take especially in my state, go figure. Sorry Red.

Last edited by GSS; 02-01-2016 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 02-01-2016, 05:04 PM #1278
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

It's our constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

Any fool can buy a car without a background check and kill someone, any maniac can buy a can of gasoline and a book of matches.

Things that go boom are easy to construct from common materials. The Oklahoma City Bombing killed 168 people, 19 were young children and 100's more were injured, millions in damage was done and not a single bullet was fired.
Do you think passing a law against blowing up buildings full of people would have stopped the bad guys?
No because they are not going to obey the laws.

Poisons are not hard to make and I would rather be shot to death than poisoned to death, or crushed to death by a car.

It comes down to personal responsibility.

Firearm ownership is our Constitutional right, it's not up for debate, the restrictive infringements are illegal and will one day be repealed.

We are likely to see religious extremist committing acts terror and people are going to want to protect their loved ones, police can't be everywhere all the time, I expect what's been done against us may well serve to restore us.

It's legal to build your own firearm, well maybe not in your state if they have infringed your constitutional right, but here I can build my own rifle so long as it has at least a 16 inch long barrel and is 26 inches long overall, but it can have a folding stock.
I can build a pistol but it can not have a rifle stock or a fore grip as that makes it a 2 handed weapon or an AOW " any other weapon "
Basically anything besides short barrel rifles/shotguns AOW's and full autos, and destructive devices.

I can build my own gun I just cant sell it without a serial number, and if for profit a dealer license.

Really we are supposed to be free, and only a law abiding person is effected by a law, a criminal is not stopped by a law...do you see how crazy it is?

I have been shot at, but that does not mean some 70 year old grandmother in the sh1t part of town should be deprived from being able to defend her home and grandchildren.

I have been shooting since my dad took me to the range and with a seat cushion so I could see over the bench to shoot cigarettes in half with his 50 year old marlin 22 that my mom gave him as a gift before they were married, a rifle that never had a serial number because they were not required...used to be if you wanted a gun you would go buy one, kids used to take pocket knives to school.

Our problem is not the availability of base ball bats, it's what dirt bag people sometimes do with them, and kitchen knives.

We have to punish bad people for doing bad things, not punish inanimate tools for what a person did, or deprive good people of tools.

I have been shooting since I was 10 years old and I have never shot anyone, well with a paint ball gun yes, but not to kill.
I have hunted animals, and I know how it feels to break something that you can not fix as you watch it die.
I have seen my wife die right in front of me from lung cancer drowning in her own blood.
I don't want to hurt anyone, but I even more don't want to be powerless to prevent an evil person from killing a loved one or an innocent person even.

Don't blame the tool for the crime of a person, blame the person.

In America, or at least is some states you can still build your own gun.


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Old 02-01-2016, 10:53 PM #1279
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
It's legal to build your own firearm, well maybe not in your state if they have infringed your constitutional right, but here I can build my own rifle so long as it has at least a 16 inch long barrel and is 26 inches long overall, but it can have a folding stock.
We have WAY WAY too many restrictions. There is a concept of confiscation (theft) through regulation. You should build whatever you want. Try this example. Mill an array of holes in two blocks of steel, say 8 x 8 for starters and fit 64 short pipes between them. Set a bullet into each opening in the base of one of the blocks. Fire all 64 at once by striking the bottom of the bullets with a plate holding a corresponding array of pins. Is this an automatic? No. Are the barrels less than 16" or 26"? Not necessarily. Is this a crazy weapon? Yes! But, it's legal.

The regulations are infringements and redirect the freedom from it's rightful possessor to a bureaucrat who takes it upon himself to define a gun. They will be unable to encompass all the possible reasons for owning a gun or even what constitutes a gun. It depends on what the definition of is...is.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:55 AM #1280
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by planters View Post
We have WAY WAY too many restrictions. There is a concept of confiscation (theft) through regulation. You should build whatever you want. Try this example. Mill an array of holes in two blocks of steel, say 8 x 8 for starters and fit 64 short pipes between them. Set a bullet into each opening in the base of one of the blocks. Fire all 64 at once by striking the bottom of the bullets with a plate holding a corresponding array of pins. Is this an automatic? No. Are the barrels less than 16" or 26"? Not necessarily. Is this a crazy weapon? Yes! But, it's legal.

The regulations are infringements and redirect the freedom from it's rightful possessor to a bureaucrat who takes it upon himself to define a gun. They will be unable to encompass all the possible reasons for owning a gun or even what constitutes a gun. It depends on what the definition of is...is.
My shotgun barrel is at the limit of 18 1/2in. to be legal yet I can get a pistol grip a legal way of cutting off the stock "or I could of years ago" to help me conceal it. They say its for easy handling for defense "yeah right" try shooting with that grip and see how your wrist feels after. I'm under the understanding the barrel length is because of scatter but what is really the difference?

Last edited by GSS; 02-02-2016 at 09:56 AM.
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