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12-22-2015, 07:23 PM #1185
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planters
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Re: Gun Discussion

I think it is OK to simplify by assuming the net momentum is zero, ie identical velocities and mass, but the answer is still pretty complex and interesting. I specified armor piercing so that very hard steel is the material.

At the instant of tip contact, a shock wave begins in each bullet that travels through the bullet and reflects back to the tip. In hard steel, this will be between 5,000-6,000 M/S. This is at least 5 times faster than the net velocity of each bullet. Also, this velocity will increase substantially due to the extreme compression that occurs as the two bullets are decelerating into each other. At some point, the force will overcome the tensile strength of the metal and the bullets will begin to bulge and then rupture. To a first and WAY conservative estimate, all the energy is released in the time it takes for the two bullets to pass the same point and fly into each other, so to speak. I'd estimate that to take around 30usec. 7,000J/30usec = 233MW. The real peak could be an order of magnitude higher.

Now, if this was done in a vacuum and the "bullets" were shaped to intentionally focus the shock waves I mentioned earlier, I wonder how much higher this could go.

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12-22-2015, 07:54 PM #1186
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Pi R Squared
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Re: Gun Discussion

I wonder if the engineers who design the missile defence systems and anti-sattelite missiles need to think about this, although missiles and sattelites are made of lightweight materials for obvious reasons, so I assume most any impact at such extremely high speeds would get the job done. Just the equivalent of tracking and hitting a bullet with a bullet must be difficult to accomplish.

Alan
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12-22-2015, 08:27 PM #1187
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Trendkilla254
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Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
I'm confused by your logic. Religion aside, why are you comparing unhealthy newborns to healthy newborns while insinuating that a healthy newborn could/should be used as spare parts? Why? Doesn't that life have the freedom to actually have a chance? Why does someone that either had a deformity or a bad situation happen take precedence over a brand new and possibly better genetic make-up?
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12-22-2015, 08:34 PM #1188
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RedCowboy
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Re: Gun Discussion

Knocking a satellite down only takes an explosion nearby, but defending one is harder, although proximity detonating anti missile missiles work the same way.

Direct energy weapons are the way of the future all along the electromagnetic spectrum. Even the predator C drone can be equipped with HELLADS, I wouldn't be surprised if military satellites are not already being equipped as China and Russia have demonstrated hypersonic missiles that are tough to hit with even exploding steerable kinetics.
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Last edited by RedCowboy; 12-22-2015 at 08:37 PM.

12-22-2015, 10:27 PM #1189
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planters
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Re: Gun Discussion

I believe that an unadvertised method of battlefield laser technology will be to use multiple, low cost, light weight drones with steerable and stabilized mirrors as beam directors for a large central, heavy, powerful and expensive laser system.

20 -30 drones that rise above the local terrain and have a small radar signature, could operate independently or swarm and suddenly pop up to redirect a 1/2 MW IR laser to a target. Furthermore, they eliminate line of site vulnerability of the main laser. Even cheaper decoys could also be deployed to distract defenses.

12-28-2015, 11:45 AM #1190
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Teej
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Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by planters I believe that an unadvertised method of battlefield laser technology will be to use multiple, low cost, light weight drones with steerable and stabilized mirrors as beam directors for a large central, heavy, powerful and expensive laser system. 20 -30 drones that rise above the local terrain and have a small radar signature, could operate independently or swarm and suddenly pop up to redirect a 1/2 MW IR laser to a target. Furthermore, they eliminate line of site vulnerability of the main laser. Even cheaper decoys could also be deployed to distract defenses.
Interesting concept. The drones, to act as a collective mirror as described, would need to be able to hover/align very precisely to allow the laser focus to maintain its sharpness, etc.

Defense could then for example simply involve the use of pressure wave/acoustic and/or same wavelength IR jamming-type weapons to counter them.

Of course, if fighting AQ/Taliban/Boca type forces, they won't have the counter measures unless China/Russia/Saudi supplies them, etc.

Last edited by Teej; 12-28-2015 at 11:45 AM.

12-28-2015, 02:35 PM #1191
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planters
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Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
 Defense could then for example simply involve the use of pressure wave/acoustic and/or same wavelength IR jamming-type weapons to counter them.
Do you remember the reason that satellite based weapons were never deployed as missile defenses or for that matter against any ground based target? They were so much more expensive than the value of their potential targets that the enemy could produce enough targets including decoys that the satellite owner would be spent into defeat. That's why Thor never happened outside of a movie.

The targets for these drones would presumably be of much higher value than the drone itself. One drone could wash an entire battlefield with IR and blind the enemy to these wavelength. A central laser could be fiber or direct diode at these power levels today and ship-board, free electron lasers are able to scan across a wide wavelength range making defense very costly.

Each drone would carry say a 1/2 M diameter, light weight structured, metal mirror. A very conservative divergence of 1mrad/mm beam diameter (typical of a single mode laser pointer) would mean that a 2urad divergence beam from a central source 2km away from the drone could hit a target @ 8km with a focused 20mm diameter beam. This does not account for atmospheric distortion, but also does not allow for active beam correction in the source laser, so I'm leaving both effects out of the picture for now.

Pointing stability should be no worse than image stability from professional photographic drones. And, the speed of light means that the firing of the laser could be triggered at the instant even a "shaky" relay mirror on the drone aligns with the target.

You know the old admonition "never try this at home"? Well actually, I have all the components and might just attempt this; with a 1 mW laser of course

12-28-2015, 03:58 PM #1192
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Pi R Squared
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Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by planters Do you remember the reason that satellite based weapons were never deployed as missile defenses or for that matter against any ground based target? They were so much more expensive than the value of their potential targets that the enemy could produce enough targets including decoys that the satellite owner would be spent into defeat. That's why Thor never happened outside of a movie.
That was then, technology has come a long way since then. The stuff of movies will soon be reality.

This movie was a good one too for those who didn't see it:

Here are two more clips fom Goldeneye:

http://youtu.be/C3p86Yej6fw

http://youtu.be/B5Dxk2oGaEk

And time for some music I think:

http://youtu.be/4hGQ97tCTOs

You underestimate how far and how fast technology is advancing. Solid State lasers capable of taking down missiles and aircraft have already been developed and in the near future will be deployed on UAV's and fighters, no need for mirrors for a ground based laser.

I am more worried about fourth generation nukes, a long time ago I heard a radio show where someone talked about them and said that one of our top nuclear weapons designers quit his job because they were developing the capability to build suitcase size H-bombs and he didn't want anything to do with that. The truth is much more frightening than that, you don't want to know, it could be the end of all of us. I posted some info about it once before.

Alan
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AtlasNova 635nm <5mW
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M462 462nm one of a kind (in progress)
PLTB450B 450nm 1913mW G2 lens
PL520 520nm 82mW acrylic lens
S06J 12X 405nm 590mW G2 lens
C6 M140 445nm 1.5W 3 element lens
9mm 445nm with G2 lens in a stainless steel host
Radiant Electronics X4 3.7W Laser Power Meter

___________________________________________
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12-28-2015, 05:51 PM #1193
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InfinitusEquitas
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Re: Gun Discussion

12-28-2015, 07:53 PM #1194
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planters
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Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
 You underestimate how far and how fast technology is advancing. Solid State lasers capable of taking down missiles and aircraft have already been developed and in the near future will be deployed on UAV's and fighters, no need for mirrors for a ground based laser.
No, I really don't. You need a lot of laser power to act as a weapon. I know about those tests as well and they are ground based because 100kW for these CW lasers is a bare minimum and 1MW is where you begin talking about a significant threat. The UAV mounted unit you are referencing weighs 3 tonnes and so will be limited to the largest drone and it produces around 100kW. I'm sure the whole package costs a REAL LOT.

No matter how far the technology advances, the angle (pun intended) of remote targeting mirrors makes the cost to threat ratio much more favorable especially in uneven or urban terrain.

12-29-2015, 12:04 AM #1195
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RedCowboy
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Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Trendkilla254 I'm confused by your logic. Religion aside, why are you comparing unhealthy newborns to healthy newborns while insinuating that a healthy newborn could/should be used as spare parts? Why? Doesn't that life have the freedom to actually have a chance? Why does someone that either had a deformity or a bad situation happen take precedence over a brand new and possibly better genetic make-up?
NO, not every life has the freedom to have a chance, we kill animals for food, they are alive but they don't have human rights.

I personally feel that it is the woman's choice what she want's to do with any tissue inside her body and abortion is legal.

Any thing inside her body is her property and devoid of citizenship rights until BORN, any genetic material be it a tumor, a kidney she wants to donate, or her unborn child, I believe in personal freedom.

Some will argue the unborn fetus has US citizen rights, but you are not a US citizen unless you are born here or born to a US citizen, the key word is born.

So in order to have US citizen rights you must be born, once the baby is born and breathing on it's own it has human rights. Well once it is BORN.

Legally define BORN and let that be the answer.

NOW, if a woman is having a late term abortion and part or all of the fetus comes out while the abortion is in progress I think some common sense should be used to comprehend that that genetic material was not meant to be a born citizen with rights, the owner of that genetic material made her choice while the genetic material was part of her body, and under her control and the abortion began before birth.

Now if the baby is born before the abortion has started then it is a natural born citizen, if it comes out half torn to shreds then finish the job, if it pops out intact then it was born, somewhere we have to draw the line.

But until that fetus is " BORN " it is the mothers property and not a citizen with rights.

That's just how I feel about it, otherwise we will back up until the first division of cells and outlaw abortion all together.

p.s. Lets start a new thread if you want to debate abortion, I know it was part of my rant, but we are getting off topic.
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Last edited by RedCowboy; 12-29-2015 at 12:08 AM.

12-29-2015, 04:12 AM #1196
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STI24
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Re: Gun Discussion

Glock 17 or M&p 9? I know the trigger on the M&p is not the best and people recommend you get a trigger job done to it.

Thoughts?

12-29-2015, 05:19 AM #1197
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RedCowboy
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Re: Gun Discussion

I have never owned a M&P or even rented one, but I have owned many glocks and currently have a pair of glocks both gen 3 model 22's in .40 s&w.
They work! I have many 15 and 22 round magazines.
No safety levers to fool with, no hammer to cock, just a extremely reliable, accurate, durable, striker fired safe action, ready at the drop of a hat, bet your life on it tool that I trust.
I have owned so many firearms, but everything I buy now is semi auto and magazine fed, after that reliability and accuracy are the most critical factors, and glocks just flat out work, the short reset lets you follow up quickly and accurately and of course they have last round hold open, drop free mags, good ergos and a slide release that add up to fast comfortable reloads.
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Last edited by RedCowboy; 12-29-2015 at 05:23 AM.

12-29-2015, 08:02 AM #1198
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Dr_Evil
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Re: Gun Discussion

I have owned one Glock, one M&P and one FN. I'd take the FN and M&P over a Glock any day. There are many reasons I will never buy another Glock.
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12-29-2015, 09:13 AM #1199
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RedCowboy
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Re: Gun Discussion

I have a couple Rugers P89DC and a 45 and I had a Sig 2340 pro that shot really well, and my Colt National Match Gold Cup is fun to shoot but for snag free practical carry I like my Glock best.
What put you off about glocks?
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You can not put freedom in a bag.
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Last edited by RedCowboy; 12-29-2015 at 09:16 AM.

12-29-2015, 02:08 PM #1200
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Dr_Evil
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Re: Gun Discussion

The problems mine had along with customer service saying it didn't have any problems when I sent it back to get it checked out.
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