Old 12-20-2015, 11:38 PM #1169
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Well Teej, it looks like we do agree on something here.

you said.

I am into guns, its a part of my life I DO cling to. I can use both hands though, as the one hand that others are using to also cling to their bible is free.

I feel the same way, we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, when Bush Jr. did his faith based initiate thing, while preachers stood on the side of the stage with that look like" Is he going to get away with this" and when he blocked stem cell research funding I felt sick.

The Republicans keep pushing their anti abortion crap when it has already been decided, I know if I was a woman I would not want to be told what I could or could not do with my body, the " lump of clay " inside it and the next 18+++ years of my life.
Babies take a lot more than being born to make decent people out of them and it costs a lot of money, I believe in freedom for everyone and as far as I am concerned even when the baby is birthed it is still not allowed to vote, drink alcohol, be responsible for anything....it's just not done yet, there are not enough connections in it's brain to have much awareness.

Seriously who here remembers being born?

Not 2 or 3 years old but being born? If the genetic material in an unfinished lump f clay inside a woman's body could be used to save a productive useful member of society then I say use it....now before I get flamed let me say stem cell research is past that, they can reprogram adult stem cells and grow more from cord blood, but roe vs wade has been decided, and before you tell me that every baby is a precious gift, a perfect blessing from god then tell me why some are born with 2 heads or in a pile of ooze that dies on it's own anyway, hate me for saying it, but religion is control and we need to evolve beyond it, either that or have dam good people running it that will punish the pedophile priest and not fall prey to greed like our elected officials.

Funny thought, I remember the pope being picked up by the Vatican helicopter, HOLLY ROTORS that bastich is freaking huge, that must be a custom built super copter, that multi million dollar monster looked like it had it's own swimming pool.

The fact is the Vatican could give a dam how poor the people are who are trying to raise another child in poverty, all they care about are the number of a$$es on pews, it's money and control just like our for sale government.

Religion used to be the glue that held us together and no American president won without the Catholic vote, but people used to stay together more than today and mom voted for who dad told her to.

I'm for FREEDOM, even if I don't like what you do with yours I still fight for your right to do it and talk about it.

Barry got re elected because Romney the Mormon did not speak up when his church buddy said raped women should not be allowed abortions, that it must have been an act of god that they got raped....F%^k Me, they have to get over this. Freedom and our Constitution/Bill of Rights trumps religion when it comes t matters of state, so why are they talking about religion during an election?

Dam near every war and so much death and torture has been carried out in the name of religion, how is it the good guys are touting religion and the socialist are not.


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Old 12-21-2015, 12:50 AM #1170
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Talking Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
Well Teej, it looks like we do agree on something here.

you said.

I am into guns, its a part of my life I DO cling to. I can use both hands though, as the one hand that others are using to also cling to their bible is free.

I feel the same way, we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, when Bush Jr. did his faith based initiate thing, while preachers stood on the side of the stage with that look like" Is he going to get away with this" and when he blocked stem cell research funding I felt sick.

The Republicans keep pushing their anti abortion crap when it has already been decided, I know if I was a woman I would not want to be told what I could or could not do with my body, the " lump of clay " inside it and the next 18+++ years of my life.
Babies take a lot more than being born to make decent people out of them and it costs a lot of money, I believe in freedom for everyone and as far as I am concerned even when the baby is birthed it is still not allowed to vote, drink alcohol, be responsible for anything....it's just not done yet, there are not enough connections in it's brain to have much awareness.

Seriously who here remembers being born?

Not 2 or 3 years old but being born? If the genetic material in an unfinished lump f clay inside a woman's body could be used to save a productive useful member of society then I say use it....now before I get flamed let me say stem cell research is past that, they can reprogram adult stem cells and grow more from cord blood, but roe vs wade has been decided, and before you tell me that every baby is a precious gift, a perfect blessing from god then tell me why some are born with 2 heads or in a pile of ooze that dies on it's own anyway, hate me for saying it, but religion is control and we need to evolve beyond it, either that or have dam good people running it that will punish the pedophile priest and not fall prey to greed like our elected officials.

Funny thought, I remember the pope being picked up by the Vatican helicopter, HOLLY ROTORS that bastich is freaking huge, that must be a custom built super copter, that multi million dollar monster looked like it had it's own swimming pool.

The fact is the Vatican could give a dam how poor the people are who are trying to raise another child in poverty, all they care about are the number of a$$es on pews, it's money and control just like our for sale government.

Religion used to be the glue that held us together and no American president won without the Catholic vote, but people used to stay together more than today and mom voted for who dad told her to.

I'm for FREEDOM, even if I don't like what you do with yours I still fight for your right to do it and talk about it.

Barry got re elected because Romney the Mormon did not speak up when his church buddy said raped women should not be allowed abortions, that it must have been an act of god that they got raped....F%^k Me, they have to get over this. Freedom and our Constitution/Bill of Rights trumps religion when it comes t matters of state, so why are they talking about religion during an election?

Dam near every war and so much death and torture has been carried out in the name of religion, how is it the good guys are touting religion and the socialist are not.


Different ways of motivating the great unwashed to do their bidding.

Religion's PURPOSE was evolved from a simple "hoping" to a an organized praying, to a man's way of supporting himself being your conduit to the gods.

So, then it evolved into WHICH gods, and they developed specialties. The original witch doctors and Shamans, etc, had access to all of the spirits, good and bad...just as doctors were just doctors, and you saw "the doctor" for a battle wound, a bite, or general malaise, the vapors, etc...no transplants, maybe some leeches, etc.

Eventually, the Shamans, etc, became priests, with orders and rules and memberships and dues/taxes/tithes, etc.

They vied for memberships, but int he beginning, it was like you went to the sea god ones if going on a voyage/fishing, the harvest ones for your crops, and so forth.

Eventually, the religions became monopolies, with armies/enforcement, and could tell you you could not go to the sea god temple....only THEIRS.

They gained enough power to enforce this by making themselves part of the governments. The governments needed to control the masses, and if the people were told the gods ordained this leader, and they must follow them..it was a win win for the religion/royal.

The Egyptians etc, even made the rulers demigods.

So, at a point, the royals found out how to undermine the clergy, and the two are at a detent ever since.

The reason its a detent and not one side winning, is that the government needs to be able to tell their subjects that god is on their side, so they will be willing to die for the government.

These people are called "soldiers".

Governments need soldiers to enforce their aspirations, and defend against OTHER government's aspirations.

So, these are the instances where religion is used to manipulate people to die for a cause.


Socialism on the other hand, is what tends to happen when the rich get TOO rich, and the poor get TOO poor, and the poor look at the rich, and decide to just take it all...so they're not poor any more.

In game theory, and most economic models, its proven that being poor is enough of a disadvantage that most born to it simply can't overcome it, and, then produce more poor offspring.

Some can climb out of course, but not most, and statistically, the percentages are small.

So, the tendency is for stratification to occur. The older the society, the worse the stratification tends to be.

Poor people, while among the most religious, statistically, are motivated, if fighting for socialism, to be fighting for economic opportunity.

This is more akin to the American Revolution, where no taxation w/o representation and so forth, were battle cries.

The American revolutionaries were not fighting for religious reasons. They were fighting for economic reasons.

England had strict religious rules, and, Americans wanted religious freedom.

They PURPOSEFULLY separated church and state...to avoid "A State Religion" etc, such as England and many other countries had.


So, the fight can be what the fight is actually about, or, if the government(s) don't want the subjects to know, its about "God and Country!", etc. If being invaded, its easy, you are "Defending the motherland, your family, your neighbors!" So no need to make anything up really.

In those cases, where the real reasons to fight are unclear to the active participants, BOTH sides have god on their side...and of course, both win, just one less so, and one more so.

Dehumanizing the enemy helps make it easier to get your guys to kill them. They eat babies. They are godless/demon worshipers. The are killing our brothers in XXXXXX.


A socialist rebellion/revolution is more along the lines of attacking the "stuff" and trying to get control of it.

Later, they establish a perfect government in which all work happily for the common good, and share the wealth equally...so no one is poor, ever again.

And then we wake up, and later realize this doesn't work in real life...as some people are going to game the system and get more, and be the new wealthy/or get left out and get less...and the stratification starts afresh...with the most corrupt climbing and the most honest sinking.

When the grumbling starts, they encourage religion...and getting everyone on board with being meek so they inherit the earth, this life is a test to get into the next one, etc. Worship of the leader as a demigod, as in Egypt, etc, is brought back when they can get away with it, etc.

Its a cycle.


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Old 12-21-2015, 01:37 AM #1171
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Yet religion empowers the masses to overcome the tyranny that socialism always leads to, it seems like the puppet masters stay in control no matter what, that's why I will roll my dice and bet on Trump, sure he has bought and sold the criminals, but maybe he's ready to do something great, I doubt any of the straw men from either party would stir things up as much.

Ultimately I see revolution being the answer but not until everybody feels the pinch....actually I would like to see things swing back the right way, at least let America make a profit, and again I see Trump as the man for the job, he couldn't be any worse, and I am burnt the heck out on Clintons and Bushes, that's for certain.

We have been set upon a treacherous path by our hope and change Muslim King and we need someone with a backbone to kick some azz and restore balance because be it by incompetence, and it wasn't, or by design, we are more unbalanced now than we have been in a long time.

Everyone's standard of living will be impacted, and don't tell me about gas prices, that's just a producer war, the shale frackers are running wide open even without the keystone pipeline and the middle east is slashing prices to try and shut them down, not to mention ISIS has ships full of oil for sale cheap that most won't openly buy.

Fact is we are the minions and until we take control of our destiny we will continue to catch it from all sides, we had a good plan, but even the forefathers expected we would have a revolution once every 20 years.

This is supposed to b our country, of the people, by the people and for the people, but alas the free and the brave are sitting on their hands arguing about which straw man talks the best line of bs.

My chips are on the gorilla, we need it.
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Old 12-21-2015, 02:25 AM #1172
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Talking Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
Yet religion empowers the masses to overcome the tyranny that socialism always leads to, it seems like the puppet masters stay in control no matter what, that's why I will roll my dice and bet on Trump, sure he has bought and sold the criminals, but maybe he's ready to do something great, I doubt any of the straw men from either party would stir things up as much.

Ultimately I see revolution being the answer but not until everybody feels the pinch....actually I would like to see things swing back the right way, at least let America make a profit, and again I see Trump as the man for the job, he couldn't be any worse, and I am burnt the heck out on Clintons and Bushes, that's for certain.

We have been set upon a treacherous path by our hope and change Muslim King and we need someone with a backbone to kick some azz and restore balance because be it by incompetence, and it wasn't, or by design, we are more unbalanced now than we have been in a long time.

Everyone's standard of living will be impacted, and don't tell me about gas prices, that's just a producer war, the shale frackers are running wide open even without the keystone pipeline and the middle east is slashing prices to try and shut them down, not to mention ISIS has ships full of oil for sale cheap that most won't openly buy.

Fact is we are the minions and until we take control of our destiny we will continue to catch it from all sides, we had a good plan, but even the forefathers expected we would have a revolution once every 20 years.

This is supposed to b our country, of the people, by the people and for the people, but alas the free and the brave are sitting on their hands arguing about which straw man talks the best line of bs.

My chips are on the gorilla, we need it.
Religion has never empowered the masses to overthrow tyranny, as religion was imposed BY the tyranny historically.

Religion is used to suppress the masses and control them.

When the black plague hit Europe for example, and the church blamed it on the sins of the people, but then church leaders were also stricken, and the prayers went unanswered, and millions dies in agony...a lot stopped believing that the church was god's representative here on earth...and saw the hypocrisy.

They stopped listening to the church's demands, and started to question the world around them...and the Renaissance ensued. Science, technology, the arts, all exploded.

Eventually...

France's royalty was overthrown: The supposedly god-chosen-king was beheaded, etc.

And so forth.

Religion is a tool to control the masses, by governments. It has been so since there WERE governments.



If you think Obama is a Muslim, you are wrong. He was always christian.

If you want to say you're unhappy with the current economic recovery, unemployment, etc, and think Romney or whoever would have done a better job, fine...we'll never know.

He doesn't matter now as far as the new election goes...his two terms are up.


All that remains to be seen is if the Republicans present a Gorilla who scares the bell curve, again, and hand the Dems another victory in the national election.

Jeb and Hillary can lie and say whatever the polls say they need to, and have the political savvy to survive in the office.

They are centrist enough for the bell curve.

Who knows if they'll be in the running by then.

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Old 12-21-2015, 02:35 AM #1173
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Religion can be used to give people great courage to fight tyranny or convince healthy young men to fly airplanes full of people into buildings, it can be used for anything.

So you don't think Barry is a Muslim you are either ignorant to the truth or trying to fool others.

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Old 12-21-2015, 03:00 AM #1174
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
The real question is this, now, for you. Now that you HAVE evidence that many Americans are dumb about science, do you incorporate that into your knowledge base?
Now? What do you mean by now? This has always been obvious, but sometimes it's stunning. Many years ago I would have said it was religious dogma that filled the gap and although this still exists, now there is just a gap or maybe even more pop culture.

I have noticed how social media or a phone app have become a substitute for fundamental knowledge. "I have the latest phone, but no ideal how an OLED works". Sad.

Quote:
If you think Obama is a Muslim, you are wrong. He was always christian.
I think few really believe he is a Muslim, but they hate him (understandable), think he resents America's prominence (reasonable conclusion) and in the face of aggressive Muslim enemies he seems inept and painfully weak (fake? maybe).

Quote:
He doesn't matter now as far as the new election goes...his two terms are up.
I think it could matter a lot. I believe the Hillary security scandal is serious and the evidence of her incompetence and probable criminal wrongdoing seems pretty strong. BO could squash or supercharge this investigation and the result would determine if Sanders becomes the Democrat candidate.

Quote:
All that remains to be seen is if the Republicans present a Gorilla who scares the bell curve, again, and hand the Dems another victory in the national election.
Or, if Trump excites enough of the disaffected Democrats that reject the massive socialism of Sanders or can't stomach another Clinton, especially one this brazenly corrupt.
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:17 AM #1175
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I would like to remind you all that this thread is for gun discussion. Please confine any athiest anti religion offensive and controversial opinions regarding religion to the insult religion thread.







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Old 12-21-2015, 11:11 PM #1176
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Nice videos.

Did you know that a high velocity bullet rotates at approximately 1/4 of a million RPM as it leaves the barrel?

Did you know that a high velocity bullet experiences such a high acceleration that if it were to continue to accelerate at that rate for 20 min. it would reach the speed of light?

Copper/tungsten metal can be used as a replacement for depleted uranium ordnance. It also makes a great flash lamp electrode.

Dye lasers are more fun than guns (my opinion)
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Old 12-22-2015, 04:39 AM #1177
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Forward velocity is only part of achieving 1/4 million RPM. It also depends on the twist rate of the barrel.
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Old 12-22-2015, 12:03 PM #1178
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Forward velocity is only part of achieving 1/4 million RPM. It also depends on the twist rate of the barrel.
That's right. Velocity x twist rate (inches of barrel/rotation) = RPM

That rotational speed is close to 4,000Hz and would sound like a dental drill if you could dig that sound out of the noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg

Watch the bullets in this remarkable video, and remember the bullet is traveling at about 30.000 lengths/second
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:03 PM #1179
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
I would like to remind you all that this thread is for gun discussion. Please confine any athiest anti religion offensive and controversial opinions regarding religion to the insult religion thread.







Alan
Thanks man I was happy to see this thread back on track. Guys keep the threads clean, getting caught up is proving daunting. Thank you in advance.-Jander
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:24 PM #1180
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Your welcome.

Now a challenge. If two high velocity, hard (armor piercing) bullets were fired at each other, what would be the maximum momentary pressure or the maximum energy density that could be reached?
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:34 PM #1181
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

@ Planters: No doubt it would be a glancing blow, but if you cut the tips off and lined up barrel to barrel at point blank range with say a pair of 7.62x51 black tips then each weighing 147 gr and traveling 2850 fps each bullet would have 3.5940e+3 joules (watt second) of energy, so if combined the energy should be the sum total of the pair, or so it might seem, but as the equal projectile weights and velocities would provide a shorter termination timeframe, as energy increases by the cube the instantaneous release would be higher for the fraction of a second as impact but as total energy over time the burned powder would be twice, although the impact SPIKE could be quite high. That is the duration of the energy release would be shorter than each projectile striking an immoveable object creating more peak energy over a shorter duration, so a 4th parameter of time would have to be calculated to determine peak/spike energy rather than total energy. Off the cuff I would expect the peak/spike energy to be 4x that of the immovable objet spike.

http://www.1728.org/energy.htm

No doubt that velocity is king.
243WSSM and 22-250 can get well into the 4000's but I wonder how well the sabot's work loaded with a 55gr 5.56, also I wonder how much long range accuracy would be effected, of course the heavier rounds with higher ballistic coefficient will do better past 500 yards no matter how fast you can get the smaller projectile moving, past 5000 fps they are liable to melt before they get there anyway.

Still I have been wanting to load out some of these and do some 100 yard and less material testing, 25 yards would be fun.

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Old 12-22-2015, 04:01 PM #1182
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by planters View Post
Your welcome.

Now a challenge. If two high velocity, hard (armor piercing) bullets were fired at each other, what would be the maximum momentary pressure or the maximum energy density that could be reached?
I going to guess here at this, assuming you mean at the point of impact then I would say zero...

Of course your question could have given more details if it where more of a complex answer.
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Old 12-22-2015, 04:20 PM #1183
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
@ Planters: No doubt it would be a glancing blow, but if you cut the tips off and lined up barrel to barrel at point blank range with say a pair of 7.62x51 black tips then each weighing 147 gr and traveling 2850 fps each bullet would have 3.5940e+3 joules (watt second) of energy, so if combined the energy should be the sum total of the pair, or so it might seem, but as the equal projectile weights and velocities would provide an instant termination, would the energy not be 147gr at 5700fps combined speed, as energy increases by the cube the instantaneous release could be higher for the fraction of a second as impact but as total energy over time the burned powder would be twice, although the impact SPIKE could be quite high.

ENERGY CALCULATOR

No doubt that velocity is king.
243WSSM and 22-250 can get into the 4000's but I wonder how well the sabot's work loaded with a 55gr 5.56, also I wonder how much long range accuracy would be effected, of course the heavier rounds with higher ballistic coefficient will do better past 500 yards no matter how fast you can get the smaller projectile moving, past 5000 fps they are liable to melt before they get there anyway.

Still I have been wanting to load out some of these and do some 100 yard and less material testing, 25 yards would be fun.

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With no doubt the small details such as barrel length, bullet composition, POI and so on could make for an extremely long post for a answer. I assumed he meant @ POI for 2 identical objects at identical velocities, hence both negating the other or 0?
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Old 12-22-2015, 04:42 PM #1184
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

If you crash 2 of the exact same car together both going 70mph is the energy zero?

If you crash 1 car going 70 into a brick wall vs a bunch of water barrels the total energy expended is the same but the peak energy is higher where the time of energy expenditure is shorter, this is why airbags save lives, they spread the impact out over time.
Hence 2 cars hitting head on would shorten the duration of energy release resulting in higher peak energies over shorter durations.

Just like swinging a hammer.
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