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Old 01-07-2013, 03:04 PM #97
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
More people are killed each year with empty hands, fists, feet, etc. than are killed with rifles

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 - Crime in the United States 2009

Peace,
dave
Those are some fascinating statistics. I'm a bit surprised just how much handguns outpace all other weapons used for murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quadcam View Post
To answer your question, in light of the Sandy Hook incident which is the "worst school killing in history", I would like to point you to the Bath School Massacre.
I was not aware of this... definitely worth reading about. Thanks for sharing.


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Old 01-08-2013, 01:05 AM #98
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Thanks for sharing that info quadcam. It just shows what I have said all along people kill people weather be guns,knifes,bombs,fist ect. +1 for you.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:15 PM #99
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Well, I was expecting this, but doesn't make it any better...

Iowa lawmaker calls for retroactive gun bans, confiscations of semi-automatic weapons | The Daily Caller

Meanwhile there was a shooting in Switzerland recently... in that one an old, old, military rifle, and handgun were used. Of course the guy did suffer from mental illness, and more importantly, he was not supposed to have owned any guns. Another example of tighter laws doing nothing.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:20 PM #100
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Just some interesting quotes. Though as with statistics, they must be taken with a grain of salt, as it is quite easy to take a quote out of context to manufacture support for your own viewpoint.

Quote:
"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." (Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The Complete Jefferson, p. 322)

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

George Mason

Co-author of the Second Amendment

during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

"The great object is that every man be armed" and "everyone who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution. Debates and other Proceedings of the Convention of Virginia,...taken in shorthand by David Robertson of Petersburg, at 271, 275 2d ed. Richmond, 1805. Also 3 Elliot, Debates at 386)

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." (Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8)

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"

Richard Henry Lee

writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."

Zachariah Johnson

Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."

"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"

Philadelphia Federal Gazette

June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2

Article on the Bill of Rights

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"

Samuel Adams

quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States" (Noah Webster in `An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution', 1787, a pamphlet aimed at swaying Pennsylvania toward ratification, in Paul Ford, ed., Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States, at 56(New York, 1888))

"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" (Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788)

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights, Walter Bennett, ed., Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republican, at 21,22,124 (Univ. of Alabama Press,1975)..)

"No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave. He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion." (James Burgh, Political Disquisitions: Or, an Enquiry into Public Errors, Defects, and Abuses [London, 1774-1775])

"To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm . . . is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege." [Wilson v. State, 33 Ark. 557, at 560, 34 Am. Rep. 52, at 54 (1878)]

"The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals.... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." (Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789)
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:02 AM #101
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Gun rights groups say Georgia home invasion proves their point - CNN.com
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:02 PM #102
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

May I join this discussion?

Your state, gun sales ......

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nic...hly_totals.pdf

If you break down those numbers to checks per 1000 in each state you get some interesting numbers. First, Kentucky is off the charts with about 600 checks per 1000 citizens. The top ten are (based on 2010 population numbers):

597 - Kentucky
136 - Montana
126 - North Dakota
121 - West Virginia
120 - Alaska
112 - Wyoming
108 - South Dakota
98 - Oklahoma
97 - New Hampshire
90 - Alabama

The bottom 5:
24 - Maryland
23 - Rhode Island
17 - New York
13 - Hawaii
10 - New Jersey
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:18 PM #103
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Lol, of course you may join the discussion.

Seeing NJ - where I live at the bottom, and New York near it... no surprise. In so far as gun control is concerned we have some of the most retarded policies/laws imaginable.

I'm kind of surprised Texas is not near the top though.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:40 PM #104
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Old 01-16-2013, 09:43 PM #105
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

All I get is "This video is private."
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:02 PM #106
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I say who cares. All we're doing is imposing the same ban we had from 1994-2004 (which was a smart ban)

I don't need an AR-15 with a 30 round clip to protect my home, i just use a 12 gauge.

I did not see anything in the new proposals about taking away handguns or conceal and carry laws, So i think that image on facebook in the OP is irrelevant.

Plus, if you can't hit your target in 10 shots, it's probably time for you to take a deep breath & calm down (while you reload)

As far as sporting purposes, a bolt action rifle is going to give you much less complications and last you the rest of your life than any modern semi automatic weapon.

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Old 01-16-2013, 10:10 PM #107
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Hmm, I guess youtube or the poster pulled it. It turned out to be a hoax but it does raise an interesting concern.

The video was of a woman calling Bank of America to ask about a new policy. The new policy is that BOA is blocks all purchases for guns and ammunition.

The video has been debunked so to speak, but I do wonder what the reaction would be, and ramifications, of financial institutions suddenly start to interfere in this way with purchases.

There is precedent for it that hits home for us... how many times have companies who sell lasers had their accounts locked and lost money?

Edit: I haven't gone through the obama proposal yet, so not commenting on it.

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Old 01-16-2013, 11:00 PM #108
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

It was basically a ban on AR rifles, limiting magazines to 10 rounds and requiring thorough background checks to purchase firearms. The rest was aimed toward mental health and emergency plans for schools.
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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Hmm, I guess youtube or the poster pulled it. It turned out to be a hoax but it does raise an interesting concern.

The video was of a woman calling Bank of America to ask about a new policy. The new policy is that BOA is blocks all purchases for guns and ammunition.

The video has been debunked so to speak, but I do wonder what the reaction would be, and ramifications, of financial institutions suddenly start to interfere in this way with purchases.

There is precedent for it that hits home for us... how many times have companies who sell lasers had their accounts locked and lost money?

Edit: I haven't gone through the obama proposal yet, so not commenting on it.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:10 PM #109
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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It was basically a ban on AR rifles, limiting magazines to 10 rounds and requiring thorough background checks to purchase firearms. The rest was aimed toward mental health and emergency plans for schools.
Not a lot to make a fuss about IMO. But there's always that argument for the whole, "Its hard to get back rights that they take away". But I think all the few AR owners out there might still be ok about it - they should have nothing to hide.

I don't think requiring teachers to be armed with firearms is a good idea, maybe just allow the option for it? But really, the only thing that could have stopped many shootings from the past is an armed security force - a guard, campus police, whatever. Its their job to subdue danger, even if they must put themselves at risk in the act.

I'm actually surprised at the general consensus found here on the forum. I've been under the impression that the more popular American views are the more Liberal ones - but not here.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:20 PM #110
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I've always said that having teachers carrying guns is an ignorant idea, and I wouldn't allow my child to attend a school in which that were the case. They're teacher, they aren't police officers.
They are 2 separate skills. It's like having your doctor fix your radiator and having your mechanic treat your heart attack.

I do support local law enforcement opening a new position to have an on duty officer on-site at the schools. Waste of money in my opinion, but if that's what people really want....
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:32 PM #111
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohrenberg View Post
I've always said that having teachers carrying guns is an ignorant idea, and I wouldn't allow my child to attend a school in which that were the case. They're teacher, they aren't police officers.
They are 2 separate skills. It's like having your doctor fix your radiator and having your mechanic treat your heart attack.

I do support local law enforcement opening a new position to have an on duty officer on-site at the schools. Waste of money in my opinion, but if that's what people really want....
one of my teachers the other day said they dont want teachers to carry weapons. reasoning was a teacher could have a mental break just like a student and well if they have a gun put in their hands...

also i agree AR restrictions and magazine limit are not a big deal at all.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:58 AM #112
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

The National Sports Shooting Association estimated that at least 3.3 MILLION, AR-15's were sold between 1986 - 2009 (the latest numbers I found).
That's just one model of "assault rifle" and does not include data from 2009 til now
Out of those over 3 million weapons, less than 10 have been used in mass shootings
According to the Department of Justice, "assault rifles" are used in less than 2% of ALL gun related crime
That includes gun crimes associated with drugs and gangs

Banning assault rifles will NOT significantly reduce gun related crime
It will NOT significantly reduce the murder rate
It WILL "criminalize" more than 3 million "law abiding" citizens (or at least force them to relinquish private property to the government)
Why are these weapons being targeted?


@ Moh -- The 2nd amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting and only marginally anything to do with the type of "home security" that you are talking about

Peace,
dave
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Last edited by daguin; 01-17-2013 at 05:01 AM.
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