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Old 04-12-2015, 12:25 AM #1073
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Chances are... but is that a chance you are willing bet your life on? What value do you place on your own life, or the lives of your family?
FBI crime data


Here is data from 2013 for the Western USA ( because it is my location) but there is data for the whole USA if you click
Robbery: types of Weapons Used
100.0% total all weapons
30.8% Firearms
9.0% Knives or cutting instruments
10.1% Other weapons
50.1% Strong-arm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Idaho state law
16-3-22
(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he:
(1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;
(2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or
(3) Was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so and the other, notwithstanding, continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force.
16-3-23
A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's unlawful entry into or attack upon a habitation; however, such person is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if:
(1) The entry is made or attempted in a violent and tumultuous manner and he or she reasonably believes that the entry is attempted or made for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person dwelling or being therein and that such force is necessary to prevent the assault or offer of personal violence;
(2) That force is used against another person who is not a member of the family or household and who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using such force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred; or
(3) The person using such force reasonably believes that the entry is made or attempted for the purpose of committing a felony therein and that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony.
16-3-24.
(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property:
(1) Lawfully in his possession;
(2) Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or
(3) Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.
(b) The use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to prevent trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property is not justified unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Link to article with interactive map
Gun control proponents want legislation that will restrict access to firearms. The rationale for such legislation is to reduce accidental shootings and the criminal use of guns against people. But if harm reduction is the goal, policymakers should pause to consider how many crimes--murders, rapes, assaults, robberies--are thwarted by ordinary persons who were fortunate enough to have access to a gun. Gun control proponents cannot deny that people use guns successfully against criminals, but they tend to play down how often such events take place. The purpose of this map is to draw more attention to this aspect of the firearms policy debate.

Two additional points are worth noting. First, the map is not comprehensive. Criminals will often flee the scene when they discover that their intended target has a gun. With no shots fired, no injuries, and no suspect in custody, news organizations may report nothing at all. Thus, it is important to remember that news reports can only provide us with an imperfect picture of defensive gun use in America. Second, when a citizen is able to shoot an attacker or hold a rapist or robber until the police arrive, it is very likely that more than one crime has been prevented because if the culprit had not been stopped, he could have targeted other citizens as well. The bottom line is that gun owners stop a lot of criminal mayhem every year.

~~~~~~~~~~~
CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’
~ “Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies,” the CDC study, entitled “Priorities For Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence,” states.
~ the report expresses uncertainty about gun control measures, stating that “whether gun restrictions reduce firearm-related violence is an unresolved issue,” and that there is no evidence “that passage of right-to-carry laws decrease or increase violence crime.” It also stated that proposed “gun turn-in programs are ineffective.”
~ The CDC’s findings - that guns are an effective and often used crime deterrent and that most firearm incidents are not fatal - could affect the future of gun violence research..
~~~~~
Norway sure sounds like a nice place to live.

Norway vs USA crime rates

Total crimes
330,071 Ranked 29th. VS 11.88 million Ranked 1st. (36 times more than Norway )
Violent crime > Gun crime > Guns per 100 residents
31.3 Ranked 11th. VS 88.8 Ranked 1st. (3 times more than Norway)
Violent crime > Intentional homicide rate
0.68 Ranked 59th. VS 4.7 Ranked 7th. (7 times more than Norway)
Violent crime > Murder rate
29 Ranked 76th. VS 12,996 Ranked 9th. (448 times more than Norway)
Violent crime > Rapes
938 Ranked 20th. VS 84,767 Ranked 1st. (90 times more than Norway)
Violent crime > Rapes per million people
191.85 Ranked 15th. VS 274.04 Ranked 9th. (43% more than Norway)
Violent crime > Murder rate per million people
5.93 Ranked 84th. VS 42.01 Ranked 43th. (7 times more than Norway)

Fear of crime > Worries about being attacked
34.81 Ranked 60th. VS 42.08 Ranked 43th. (21% more than Norway )
Fear of crime > Worries about being mugged or robbed
31.25 Ranked 67th. VS 45.01 Ranked 47th. (44% more than Norway)
Perceived problems > Problem violent crimes including assault and armed robbery
27.22 Ranked 67th. VS 75.54 Ranked 10th. (3 times more than Norway)


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Old 04-12-2015, 04:54 PM #1074
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grix View Post
If you get mugged/robbed chances are that if you show no resistance, the thief will take your stuff but will not harm you. Doesn't that mean that if you own and use guns for self defense and/or home protection, you essentially value your stuff higher than the life of another human?
Are you wiling to take that chance? I'm not.

My own point of view: The thief loses any consideration to his life, the second he chooses put mine at risk.

So to answer your question... it's not the stuff that I value higher than another human being's life, it's my own life, and the lives of those close to me.

Also where do you draw the line at "stuff"? Are pets stuff?

Would you stand by and let someone steal everything you worked for from you?

How will you react if threatened and told to give over your account numbers, and passwords?

Let's take it a step further, do you value your kidney that you have two of, more than another human being's life?
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Old 04-13-2015, 06:57 PM #1075
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Talking Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grix View Post
If you get mugged/robbed chances are that if you show no resistance, the thief will take your stuff but will not harm you. Doesn't that mean that if you own and use guns for self defense and/or home protection, you essentially value your stuff higher than the life of another human?
You mistakenly assume that if you hand over stuff, you don't get hurt.

That is the "TV" type mugging where a masked bandit says "your money or your life".

In REAL life, they don't DO that....because then you see them head on, and, that gives you options, and, could let you identify them later (Unless they kill you of course).

A real mugging, by someone who is good at it for example, is more along the lines of you walking a long, and someone whacks you in the back of the head and takes your stuff....in which case a fire arm would not have helped, or, in the case of those still learning HOW to mug you...simply attacks as you round a corner, etc. The REALLY inexperienced ones sometimes start with, hey, got a cig? or, can you spare some change for the bus? And when you reach for your pack/change, they attack. They're the ones who do get caught more often though, as talking to them eases identification...and, they also tend to be lazy and hit the same locations over and over again, like a favorite fishing hole, etc.

Some have been mugged, they're laying in the gutter bleeding, and the mugger gets enraged because they didn't have enough money on them...and then kills them or beats them more out of frustration.


Key concept if you are robbing people out on the street: You don't want them to be able to identify you...and, you don't want to waste time with negotiations. You want to be in/out of the situation with whatever you can grab. So there's no masked guy with a sack telling people to put their wedding ring into it, and the watch, and check your boots...that takes too long.

They jack you up so you're in shock/unable to call for help/fight back as fast as possible...and, even if not the objective, people do die from that.

Another issue is that many of these people are not actually very nice, or, reasonable. Some ENJOY hurting others, a LOT. Some are out of their minds, and most are either stoned are trying to get to that state...and you are how they get the $/rocks off, depending on their mood, etc. YOU are not a person to them.


One guy for example took the train every night, and was mugged so regularly by back of head whacks that he was always seeing stars. He even tried walking with his wallet and even cash in his hand, held up so a mugger had the option of JUST grabbing the wallet and running, and they ALWAYS whacked him anyway...its just good business practice in the industry. He had multiple concussions trying to GIVE them his wallet.

He was a pacifist, and didn't WANT to fight back. But he suffered terribly for his convictions.


In a break in, they might be the type who DOES just want your stuff, so, calling 911 and hiding upstairs until they are gone is a good plan...and having a gun just in case is not an unreasonable back-up while waiting for the police to arrive.

In a break in, they might be the type who knew you were there, and broke in because of it....because they want to do other things beside get stuff, or even instead of getting stuff.

In those cases, hiding is probably not your best option, because its prey/predator relationship at that point...and you probably suck at hiding under that sort of pressure, etc...so calling 911 and getting into a good protected defensive position with your firearm, and making them walk into your line of fire, if they are coming for you, is the best bet. (walking around your house LOOKING for them is a bad idea, tactically, in most cases, if your goal is protection of your family/self).



So, sure, I think it IS fair to value the life of your family over the life of a guy who broke into your house.

Would I shoot a guy just running away with a TV? Me, probably not....if he needed a TV that bad (To sell for drug $ typically), fine...he's going the other way, and is not a threat. I might yell to stop or I'll shoot, etc...to see if it worked. I don't believe in "warning shots" though...a gun is not a signalling device, and, bullets do come out on even a warning, and, if I don't have a TARGET to absorb it, I don't want to risk letting one go at random for a warning. I'm also not the Lone Ranger, and will not assume I'd be accurate enough to just shoot him in the leg on the run, at night, etc...so, its center of mass, or, holding fire.

Would I shoot a guy coming into my bedroom?

Yeah...he's going the wrong way to let him continue...and his center of mass is going to be perforated if he keeps coming....albeit at 10' - 20', a head shot is not out of the question depending on the perceived threat.

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Old 04-13-2015, 11:53 PM #1076
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Criminals care about their own lives, not your life, especially the violent criminals. They kill too many or ruin the lives of too many of their victims, they must be dealt with aggressively so they aren't allowed to continue to harm others.

Am not in favor of cops shooting people other than violent criminals that are an immediate threat. I don't even like police or think much of them but there are a few good ones out there and the good ones should be more like this.



I would also point out that the police can't respond unless a crime is in progress or has already happened. They don't and can't protect you from becoming a victim. People have to be responsible for their own safety.

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Old 04-18-2015, 08:14 PM #1077
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Had some fun at the range yesterday.

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Old 04-18-2015, 08:39 PM #1078
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I wish we had a range like that around here. That place looks awesome!
I'm envious of your toys.
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Old 06-07-2015, 10:28 PM #1079
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

NRA: Gun blogs, videos, web forums threatened by new Obama regulation | WashingtonExaminer.com

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Old 06-08-2015, 10:17 AM #1080
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

whoa thats quite a big move, i did skim read but i wonder if it just applies to Americans? i guess so...
next thing you know this thread will be closed for safety of LPF....
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Old 06-08-2015, 03:55 PM #1081
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

This kind of regulation does not seem feasible considering it would run into a 1st amendment challenge immediately.

It's scary how the president that ran on a promise of having the most transparent administration ever, has, and continues to suppress information.
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Old 06-09-2015, 02:46 AM #1082
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Talking Re: Gun Discussion

Presidents do that.

Regan had us flying to Nicaragua to deliver guns, and flying back with drugs, which we sold to buy more stuff to support the Contras.

It was never approved by congress...DOH...hence the secrecy.


If we are talking about trade negations, the US has ALWAYS wanted closed lips before deals are made....no sense tipping our hand in deals, etc.


And, well, misinterpretation of what's going on, in this case, seems to be rampant.

So, politicians are politicians, and governments need to not publish every damn thing they are doing publicly, as it tells the other side in negotiations what you're up to....

...sort of how insider trading is discouraged for similar reasons, etc.


So, the gun control crap is retarded, the Dems have to go after the guns to satisfy the liberal wings...just as the Repubs have to do stupid sheite to satify the Tea Party, and so forth.

Its politics.
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Old 06-09-2015, 06:12 AM #1083
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Wow, this sure is a slippery slope and smacks of going against freedom of speech.
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Old 06-09-2015, 07:46 AM #1084
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RYDorDIE278 View Post
whoa thats quite a big move, i did skim read but i wonder if it just applies to Americans? i guess so...
next thing you know this thread will be closed for safety of LPF....
That's a good question. What if someone in a foreign country puts up a web site with detailed technical info on how to manufacture a certain type of weapon or ammo, and the site is hosted on a server here in the US, would that person be violating US law? What if a US citizen does the same except the site is on a server in a foreign country? Would they still be violating US law? There are many web sites with such detailed technical info. And what about all those videos on YouTube of people that made their own guns? Especially the ones with shotguns (incredibly easy to make your own) will this all disappear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
This kind of regulation does not seem feasible considering it would run into a 1st amendment challenge immediately.

It's scary how the president that ran on a promise of having the most transparent administration ever, has, and continues to suppress information.
You are probably right but we can't be sure of it. One thing is certain, with the constant fear of new gun restrictions, this president has done more to boost gun sales than any president in history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Presidents do that.

Regan had us flying to Nicaragua to deliver guns, and flying back with drugs, which we sold to buy more stuff to support the Contras.
There have been rumors we have been doing that in Afghanistan for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Chick View Post
Wow, this sure is a slippery slope and smacks of going against freedom of speech.
Very slippery, that is a steep slope covered with wet ice. We need more people to have more and better weapons to be able to defend against tyranny and protect our freedom. Every last person that feels comfortable with the idea needs to own a weapon and know how to use it.



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Old 06-09-2015, 11:56 AM #1085
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Talking Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
That's a good question. What if someone in a foreign country puts up a web site with detailed technical info on how to manufacture a certain type of weapon or ammo, and the site is hosted on a server here in the US, would that person be violating US law? What if a US citizen does the same except the site is on a server in a foreign country? Would they still be violating US law? There are many web sites with such detailed technical info. And what about all those videos on YouTube of people that made their own guns? Especially the ones with shotguns (incredibly easy to make your own) will this all disappear?



You are probably right but we can't be sure of it. One thing is certain, with the constant fear of new gun restrictions, this president has done more to boost gun sales than any president in history.



There have been rumors we have been doing that in Afghanistan for years.



Very slippery, that is a steep slope covered with wet ice. We need more people to have more and better weapons to be able to defend against tyranny and protect our freedom. Every last person that feels comfortable with the idea needs to own a weapon and know how to use it.



Alan


Just for the record, if you actually READ the law, which has been around since GW BUSH (When it was enacted), you would see that all that happened is that part of it (Before there was an internet to worry about) says not to disclose TECHNICAL DETAILS ABOUT MILITARY WEAPONS and weapons THE MILITARY might use, to foreign agents....

...was updated to reflect that these agents can read what you post on public forums.


IE: Its not a "Gag Order" on gun forums...its saying the same thing as GW Bush's time...more like a hospital privacy policy reminding doctors and nurses not to discuss patient details in the elevator, because the they don't know who the people in the elevator are, etc.

Governments need to have secrets. Its where the term "secret weapon" came from for example.

Is the media allowed to write headlines like: Raid on Bin Laden's Compound set for 7 am tomorrow! Interviews with Seal Team 6 detail attack plan!

No....its a SECRET.

Does the military want research and inside info on how their weapons work/weak points, proposed plans, discussed online where enemy combatants can read and take advantage of it?

No.

And so forth.

That's what the regulations actually SAY, when not lensed through political focuses.


There's enough REAL threats to gun owners to fight....this is not one of them.

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Old 06-16-2015, 06:10 AM #1086
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Default Re: Gun Discussion




One of the bowling balls. The first picture is of the entrance. The round was a 750 grain Hronady A-Max.


API ammo took this one out. The first shot was off center and didn't do much damage. The 2nd shot finished it off.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:36 AM #1087
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Old 06-27-2015, 06:52 AM #1088
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Awesome! I hope somebody with deep pockets hires lawyers to prove this true.

http://bearingarms.com/scotus-ruling...y-reciprocity/


If you’re following any of the various media outlets this morning, you’re probably aware that the U.S. Supreme Court has just extended gay marriage to all 50 states.

The Supreme Court ruled Friday that same-*** couples have a right to marry nationwide, in a historic decision that invalidates gay marriage bans in more than a dozen states.

Gay and lesbian couples already can marry in 36 states and the District of Columbia. The court’s ruling on Friday means the remaining 14 states, in the South and Midwest, will have to stop enforcing their bans on same-*** marriage.

The outcome is the culmination of two decades of Supreme Court litigation over marriage, and gay rights generally.

You can peruse the full ruling here, but the meat of the activist Court’s over-long decision hinges on a single paragraph.

The Court used Section 1 of the Fourteen Amendment to justify their argument, which reads:

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

By using the Constitution in such a manner, the Court argues that the Due Process Clause extends “certain personal choices central to individual dignity and autonomy” accepted in a majority of states across the state lines of a handful of states that still banned the practice.

The vast majority of states are “shall issue” on the matter of issuing concealed carry permits, and enjoy reciprocity with a large number of other states.

My North Carolina concealed carry permit, for example, was recognized yesterday as being valid in 36 states, which just so happened to be the number of states in which gay marriage was legal yesterday. But 14 states did not recognize my concealed carry permit yesterday.

Today they must.

Using the same “due process clause” argument as the Supreme Court just applied to gay marriage, my concealed carry permit must now be recognized as valid in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

I’ll be driving through the District of Columbia, Maryland, New Jersey, and New York in several weeks, places that until yesterday I did not have a legal right to concealed carry. As of today, with this decision, it would seem that these states and the District must honor my concealed carry permit, or violate my constitutional rights under the 14th and Second Amendment.
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