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Old 12-29-2012, 12:44 AM #81
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

My thoughts................
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:26 AM #82
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Default Re: Gun Discussion



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Old 12-29-2012, 03:05 PM #83
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
The problem in the US is our cops are not just armed, they are armed for war.

They are continuously upgrading with bigger, and better weapons developed for, and intended for military use.

There are countless instances of local police departments in small towns, purchasing military vehicles, guns, and crowd suppression systems, in addition to all kind of other equipment that really, short of a war has no reason being in the hands of local small town cops.

At the same time, I really can't see any way that police departments, or other agencies would ever disarm themselves.
I once saw a listing on a post 86 dealer sample minigun on gunbroker. For those who don't know, machine guns including burst fire cannot be owned by ordinary civilians unless it was registered before May 19, 1986. To get one, you need to be either law enforcement or military, or a dealer who has a federal firearms license that allows them to buy post 86 machine guns. For a dealer to get one, he must have a demonstration letter from the police (or other approved agency, but the gov't would just buy new ones from a company). This means that the minigun, which can fire several thousand rounds per minute, was not only requested by a police department, but the ATF actually approved the transfer! I don't know if the cops actually decided to get one, I hope they didn't, but they at least wanted to see one and could have got one if they wanted. If that's not preparing for war, I don't know what is.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:20 PM #84
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by brad5452 View Post
I once saw a listing on a post 86 dealer sample minigun on gunbroker. For those who don't know, machine guns including burst fire cannot be owned by ordinary civilians unless it was registered before May 19, 1986. To get one, you need to be either law enforcement or military, or a dealer who has a federal firearms license that allows them to buy post 86 machine guns. For a dealer to get one, he must have a demonstration letter from the police (or other approved agency, but the gov't would just buy new ones from a company). This means that the minigun, which can fire several thousand rounds per minute, was not only requested by a police department, but the ATF actually approved the transfer! I don't know if the cops actually decided to get one, I hope they didn't, but they at least wanted to see one and could have got one if they wanted. If that's not preparing for war, I don't know what is.

So it is possible for ordinary civilians to own fully automatic weapons registered before May 19, 1986? As in the firearm itself was registered before then, or is it tied to one owner forever after that date?
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:19 PM #85
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by 2007Revolution View Post
So it is possible for ordinary civilians to own fully automatic weapons registered before May 19, 1986? As in the firearm itself was registered before then, or is it tied to one owner forever after that date?
Yes, or at least in the US. I'm not sure about Canada. Also, there was a law passed in 1968 that made it where you can only import "sporting" firearms, so you won't find any foreign machine guns made after that date. If the firearm was legally registered on time, it is fully transferable and can be transferred to any citizen who can legally own a machine gun. Basically they need to be 21 or older and have a clean record. Obviously they also need to be in a state that permits the ownership of machine guns. Machine guns are still heavily restricted, so you need to go through a certain process to get them, not like buying a normal gun. It's not hard though, assuming either your local chief of police will sign a form for you, or you can get around that using a trust.

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Old 12-31-2012, 01:31 PM #86
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Exclamation Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by brad5452 View Post
Yes, or at least in the US. I'm not sure about Canada. Also, there was a law passed in 1968 that made it where you can only import "sporting" firearms, so you won't find any foreign machine guns made after that date. If the firearm was legally registered on time, it is fully transferable and can be transferred to any citizen who can legally own a machine gun. Basically they need to be 21 or older and have a clean record. Obviously they also need to be in a state that permits the ownership of machine guns. Machine guns are still heavily restricted, so you need to go through a certain process to get them, not like buying a normal gun. It's not hard though, assuming either your local chief of police will sign a form for you, or you can get around that using a trust.
In Canada you can own most Semi-Automatic firearms but some guns (all AK variants) (and a few other makes) with exception of the Valmet hunter M-78, and Valmet hunter auto are classed as Prohibited 12.x class firearms. This means you can't own them if you didn't own them before 1995. This is when Bill C-67 was introduced by Dr. Doolittle, Allan Rock.
AR15/m16 variants are restricted in the same way all handguns are. To range only. You may fire them at a range only.
Vz58's thankfully are either Restricted or non-restricted depending on the barrel length.
I am an owner of 2 of these Czech machine guns. They are converted to Semi-Auto only.
My favorite military firearm of all time. It's fun to shoot and a breeze to clean.

50cal rifles are common here and so are .337 Lapua.

Our licensing for Restricted and Non-restricted PAL is VERY strict. You've got to take a course and write a test. Also a personal background check is needed additionally.

Yes, some people have special licensing for full auto in Canada. I have shot in full auto, MP-37, MP5, Valmet M-76 in 7.62mm x 51 , Uzi-carbine in 9mm, and a fully select fire M4 in Canada. The person is a highly skilled gunsmith who has a full 12.x license.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:24 AM #87
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by ARGLaser View Post
Citation please?
Gun crime statistics; handguns vs assault rifles in crime

As for incidents going down, I can't remember where I read that; so I'm not going to claim its truth. What is shown about the assault rifle ban and its expiration is that the results were inconclusive. This is mostly because of the above fact: rifles, assault rifles included, are rarely used in violent crime.

Quote:
If a guy is standing in a middle of a room shooting people and he has to reload sooner, would that not give the victims a better change at flight/fight? (I honestly don't know, how long does it take to reload a gun?)
You're looking at about 2 seconds between each magazine being ejected and another loaded into the gun. It's really not that much time, especially if you've practiced, and you've got many spare magazines to use.

I think the whole assault rifle thing is a big red herring. Yeah, one was featured in some high-profile school shooting, but that was an extremely exceptional event. The vast majority of gun-related crimes involve portable side-arms. It's not like the police are fighting Mexican drug cartels.

I do think that regulating the gun shows would be a good thing. Even with sites like GunsAmerica they require guns to be shipped to registered dealers. Then at least then you can filter out that source of guns for people who have been proven that they should not own a firearm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Taking from that article, and touching upon another closely related subject...

Therein lies the problem.

Personally I'm all for a war on mental illness.
A war on poverty.
A war for education, and a war for health.

Instead we have the war on terror, and the war on drugs. Both have resulted in trillions wasted, countless lives ruined, and no discernible benefit.
Yeah, where are the calls to "ban poverty" or ban "mental illness"?

These wars, and the lack of wars (poverty especially), are the true causes of gun violence in America. There are many other countries with large numbers of household guns, but relatively low gun crime (like in some Scandinavian countries). Why is this? Because demographically, people there do not live in situations where where gun violence is "needed." When incidents do occur, they're usually crazy elements like that shooter in Oslo, the type of rare incident that also occurred in New Town.

What makes the US have far larger amounts of gun crime comes from the demographics of the country. Look at the map in this article showing the geography of gun violence in America. Then look at this map involving obesity in America. And then look at this map showing poverty levels. There is a huge correlation between poverty/income levels and crime, obesity, and gun violence.

What is the cause? It's no doubt poverty. But there's no real war on poverty, only the symptoms. Nobody wants to tackle the real problems here, only the effects. People also forget easily because they're not affected. It takes some school shooting in a middle class, predominantly white neighborhood to get people talking about gun control again for a short while, when the majority of those problems really occur in the "other 99%." In a month it will be forgotten or a side issue nobody wants tacked onto a legislative bill.

Also, if people in other countries want to know why gun control really isn't pushed in the US, it's not because of some gun fanatics pushing their agenda, but because gun violence mostly affects already forgotten sections of society. It's like indifference to HIV when it seemingly only affected Africa and gays. In a safe situation, the view of guns change from that of something that will cause you harm, to something that is a right to own or to protect yourself with.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:38 AM #88
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

In my opinion only:

Guns are an intergral part of society. anything that explells a projectile and high velocity and is portable may fall into that category, take it with a grain of salt. Yes i know a bolt from a small crossgun can fall into this category. But as far as a gun, it can be for protection or assult. its the nature of the beast unfortuantely and we are in a world where it may not need to be a gunto do damage. a siringe with a deadly chemical can be worst and quiet.

I personally would like to protect myself and my family with a gun. Period.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:32 PM #89
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

FBI: More People Killed with Hammers, Clubs Each Year Than Rifles - Gun Rights - Fox Nation
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:41 PM #90
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by 2007Revolution View Post
So it is possible for ordinary civilians to own fully automatic weapons registered before May 19, 1986? As in the firearm itself was registered before then, or is it tied to one owner forever after that date?
Yes it is, but just because it's legal to do so, doesn't mean thst many people do. Those guns go for obscene prices. Generally starting around $15,000 and up. There is also a great deal of paper work to do.

You have to apply for a tax stamp from the federal government. Thst costs $200.00 and requires a background check, finger prints, and passport photos be submitted to the federal government. In addition to all thst, you also have to have approval in writing from your chief law enforcement officer. Depending on where you live this may be the most difficult to obtain.

This same paper work also pertains to surpressors aka silencers since they are classified as machine guns. At least they aren't as expensive as fully auto weapons.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:40 PM #91
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I personally think that we have our rights as U.S. Citizens. How is somebody going to try to go against what is in the Bill of Rights? It is there for a reason.

I am only 18 but i do somewhat understand this issue. A lot of my family owns numerous amounts of weapons from handguns to rifles and shotguns. I personally go by the Motto "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Why should us citizens have to lose one of our biggest rights simply because some crazy <expletive> has to go around and think its cool to hurt innocent children? That was his fault. Why am i going to be forced to sit here and pay for what he has done? I didn't do that. Maybe they should make it harder to be able to purchase guns, or restrict them more, but that is all. I Can't stand all of these people who go around thinking its the right idea to do what they are trying to do.

Yes, if you disagree with me, i am not insulting you. I actually think it is great for each and every person to express their opinion to the full extent. I am about to read some peoples posts to see what they have posted, but i wanted to input my two cents really quickly.

I hope nobody has been offended from my post, if so, please contact me and i shall edit it.

Thanks

Last edited by daguin; 01-06-2013 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:05 AM #92
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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I personally think that we have our rights as U.S. Citizens. How is somebody going to try to go against what is in the Bill of Rights? It is there for a reason.

I am only 18 but i do somewhat understand this issue. A lot of my family owns numerous amounts of weapons from handguns to rifles and shotguns. I personally go by the Motto "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Why should us citizens have to lose one of our biggest rights simply because some crazy <expletive> has to go around and think its cool to hurt innocent children? That was his fault. Why am i going to be forced to sit here and pay for what he has done? I didn't do that. Maybe they should make it harder to be able to purchase guns, or restrict them more, but that is all. I Can't stand all of these people who go around thinking its the right idea to do what they are trying to do.

Yes, if you disagree with me, i am not insulting you. I actually think it is great for each and every person to express their opinion to the full extent. I am about to read some peoples posts to see what they have posted, but i wanted to input my two cents really quickly.

I hope nobody has been offended from my post, if so, please contact me and i shall edit it.

Thanks
Do not edit your post. You still have the right of free speech and the right to bear arms.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:12 AM #93
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Do not edit your post. You still have the right of free speech and the right to bear arms.
This is true. I'd just rather not recieve negative reputation. But yes, i shall keep it up.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:22 AM #94
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Default Re: Gun Discussion


More people are killed each year with empty hands, fists, feet, etc. than are killed with rifles

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/off...rtable_08.html

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Old 01-07-2013, 10:28 AM #95
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARGLaser View Post
Just to play the devils advocate again...

Guns are a tool for killing. The only other purpose would be hobby (target practice, collecting) and hunting. (Correct me if there are more purposes)

Why then should guns still be legal in the USA if their main purpose to end life?

The main point of this is would banning firearms stop deaths or would criminals find another way to kill? I doubt anyone could definitively argue that either way though, unless there are some facts that can show a relationship between homicide per 100,000 people and gun control.

However, having a knife or a bow would certainly be a whole lot less effective than an assault rifle in a murder spree.
To answer your question, in light of the Sandy Hook incident which is the "worst school killing in history", I would like to point you to the Bath School Massacre.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:36 AM #96
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Americans have the right to own firearms. This right shall not be infringed. The reason the Founding Fathers bequeathed this right to us had nothing to do with hunting, shooting trap or target practice. The reason that the Founding Fathers affirmed that We the People possess this right has everything to do with a person's civic duty to oppose tyranny.

People in this day and age seem to forget that at the time when the Constitution was written, the men who wrote it just completed the successful prosecution of a war of independence from the most powerful and advanced military on Earth. The men who wrote that sacred document recognized the need of the People to maintain weapons that would be able to match that which the Government may possess shot for shot. The intention of the Second Amendment, if viewed through a historical perspective, cannot really be doubted.
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