Old 07-12-2013, 05:44 PM #545
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Hmm... I must find me a "Constitutional" Zone

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Old 07-12-2013, 05:45 PM #546
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

So... what we're saying here is that any group's first amendment right to assemble trumps everyone else's rights?

Is that what we're in agreement on?

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Old 07-12-2013, 05:52 PM #547
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I don't disagree with permits to have large assemblies. I understand the reasons. More often than not "protesting" involves inconveniencing the everyday flow of things to make a point.

I was taking a jab at the letter of the law and the implications of what it means to say there is a "First Ammendment Zone" is the implication that in other areas one does not have their "First Ammendment Rights"? Interfering with traffic should be a separate issue from speaking one's mind IMO.

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Old 07-12-2013, 06:00 PM #548
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
I mean - your rights end where someone else's begin. If there were huge rallies choking off use of the roads, sidewalks, and other public areas, that would mean some people's first amendment right is stepping on someone else's right to use infrastructure they pay taxes for.

With that in mind, I don't really see a problem with designating areas for protestors.

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No, you're mixing two different but related issues.

With regards to rallies choking off streets, you're making the assumption that the street is full to begin with, and the rally would be displacing someone. It does not.

Nor is the rally preventing you from participating.

The exception I take to this issue, is that people should have the right to peacefully assemble on any open publicly available area to begin with, and should have the right to express themselves as they see fit.

With the only exception being that obvious serious threats are not protected by free speech.

What we're headed toward with "Free Speech" is that in fact the first amendment is being dismantled, because if you can limit where a person may speak, when they may speak, and to whom... well guess what. That's censorship.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:05 PM #549
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Peaceful assembly (not a rally) in a public, open space can still interfere with others' use of or navigation around the space.

To me, it makes sense to designate areas specifically for that purpose. Everyone wins, and no one's toes get stepped on.

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Old 07-12-2013, 06:39 PM #550
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

People have rights to roads? I don't know about that one.

In my opinion, it's up to the person traveling to not travel through places that can't be traveled through.

My ride home from work is 20 minutes. Except for when there's a football game and the police close down most of the main routes to my part of town for the pedestrians. They already have a bridge for only pedestrians 24/7 right next to the stadium, used to be a two lane road. Plenty big for people.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:52 PM #551
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

A football game is somewhat of a different scenario than a protest. It's an event that brings boatloads of revenue to local businesses and does require extra care taken to allow for large amounts of pedestrian traffic.

That being said...

The Anonymous protests in front of many bank buildings are a prime example. There were police around, and they told the protestors they could hand out pamphlets and be there and be there demonstrating, but not block anyone getting through. The protestors were able to successfully (and peacefully) spread their message.

To actually be able to lawfully block passage on a sidewalk or a road, you have to apply for a permit.

Know Your Rights at a Protest :: American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania

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Old 07-12-2013, 06:56 PM #552
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Peaceful assembly (not a rally) in a public, open space can still interfere with others' use of or navigation around the space.

To me, it makes sense to designate areas specifically for that purpose. Everyone wins, and no one's toes get stepped on.

Trevor
So you're saying your right to want to potentially pass through an area trumps the rights of the person who is already there, or who wants to be there in the future?

What if you ask for a permit, but you're not given one? Or told to hold your demonstration in that swamp over there please, oh and keep it down.

I'd say toes would feel rather stomped on... as they are now.

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Old 07-12-2013, 06:57 PM #553
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

See the ACLU link.

They're prettymuch the final word on what protestors should and shouldn't do... since they're looking out for the interests of the protestors and know the law.

Get a permit, block whatever you want. Or, don't get a permit, and allow people to go about their business in the public space where you happen to be.

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Old 07-12-2013, 07:41 PM #554
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
See the ACLU link.

They're prettymuch the final word on what protestors should and shouldn't do... since they're looking out for the interests of the protestors and know the law.

Get a permit, block whatever you want. Or, don't get a permit, and allow people to go about their business in the public space where you happen to be.

Trevor
I understand what you're saying, and what you mean.

I think the primary disconnect is that you're considering a pre-planned event, where I am considering a spontaneous one.

The reason why I find the idea of so called "free speech" zones abhorrent is that it implies you otherwise do not have the right to free speech.
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:45 PM #555
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Yeah... they certainly could have picked a better term.

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Old 07-12-2013, 07:50 PM #556
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Seriously. The couldn't have called them free areas available for protests?

Put up a small podium, call it a people's corner, and people will vent... but no... call it a free speech zone, barricade it off, and you're almost asking for people to get ticked off and riot.

Unless that's the goal...
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:38 PM #557
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

[igm]http://www.witehowse.guv/presidentTrollFace.jpg[/img]
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:58 PM #558
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Default Re: Gun Discussion



Zimmerman... acquitted of all charges. Not presently charged with anything else.

Justice department does not want to return gun to him
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:13 PM #559
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Default Re: Gun Discussion



Oh yeah, Trayvon was 6'1" and over 200lbs with a history of violence, that picture is a bit old

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Last edited by Lazerbeak; 07-19-2013 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 07-20-2013, 02:47 AM #560
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerbeak View Post
Oh yeah, Trayvon was 6'1" and over 200lbs with a history of violence, that picture is a bit old

~ LB
5'11" and 158lb based on autopsy. Add another inch or so for shoes.

Zimmerman is 5'7" and 185lb.

A lot of people refuse to see Martin as anything but a small 12 year old kid. You know - the pictures media plastered all over. Not the more current ones.

Yesterday coworker was talking about the case... he is frustrated, but can't articulate about what exactly... anyway, I asked him if he read the tweets from No Limit Nigga.

He got offended. Until I told him it was Martin's twitter account.

Then the illogical rationalizations started... "Well he's a young kid" "he still had his whole life in front of him, and could have turned out fine" etc,.

So yeah... real nice kid...


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