Old 05-31-2013, 03:12 AM #385
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Zathrus
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You don't need to "know anyone", you can buy them from a well known bullet manufacturer. While they won't kill you, they hurt really, really, bad if you are on the receiving end. Their purpose is for practice, but then again scissors are for cutting, not stabbing.....
The grade of "plastic" I'm thinking of is just as hard as some metals and could penetrate the skin. As to what depth, I am unsure.

The requirements for obtaining a CCW in TN is an 8hr course around $50- $75and $115 for the first permit , background and fingerprinting, then takes 2-3 months to get it. Glad you can renew 6 months early. $50 for 4yrs after that. In GA all you do is go to your local sherrif's office, talk to the guy and he runs a background check and you get it in like 2 weeks. No course class or anything. Half the time people can't remeber the rules and laws, or even keep up with the changes.
One law I do like that they passed the year I got mine, was the "mans home is his castle" law. If someone breaks into your home butt naked, you have the legal right to shoot them. Your still subject to a civial suit. If someone come on your property with a "weapon", i.e. baseball bat, pick ax, and threatens you, you can shoot them. That's why I've been meaning to get a survalence system for my home.com that way if something happens, (and no I'm not a gun-nut that's going to start blasting away) but I would have proof of what happened.


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Old 05-31-2013, 05:18 AM #386
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Much of the "cost" of the death penalty is the ongoing and in some cases required appeals and stays between conviction and execution
Other costs are the significantly increased amount of isolation and security afforded these prisoners

In California, the average stay on "death row" is 25 years @ ~$138,000 a year!
There are about 730 of these prisoners in CA

"Normal" prisoners only cost about $48,000 a year
There are 160,000 of these prisoners in CA

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Old 05-31-2013, 11:01 AM #387
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Why is it costing us anything? Why aren't the prisioners being put to work? This is why some of them commit crimes in the first place. So they can get 3 hots and a cot, and now free cable, medical insurance, and so on. I know some people will say that if the are put to work producing something they will somehow find a way to make a wepon and hurt or kill someone in prison. My reply is, ahhh...so, and your point is? Isn't this what we want? Some kind of discouragement to make people NOT want to go to jail? Love my tax dollars being wasted...um I mean being put to good use.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:13 AM #388
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

What about people who are wrongly convicted? It's not as clear cut as you make it sound. Not everyone in prison deserves to be hurt/killed.

I understand your point of course, but prison should be for the rehabilitation of criminals. As it stands now the US prison system doesn't care about trying to integrate them back into society.

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I know some people will say that if the are put to work producing something they will somehow find a way to make a wepon and hurt or kill someone in prison. My reply is, ahhh...so, and your point is? Isn't this what we want? Some kind of discouragement to make people NOT want to go to jail?
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:24 PM #389
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Why is it costing us anything? Why aren't the prisioners being put to work? This is why some of them commit crimes in the first place. So they can get 3 hots and a cot, and now free cable, medical insurance, and so on. I know some people will say that if the are put to work producing something they will somehow find a way to make a wepon and hurt or kill someone in prison. My reply is, ahhh...so, and your point is? Isn't this what we want? Some kind of discouragement to make people NOT want to go to jail? Love my tax dollars being wasted...um I mean being put to good use.
The problem isn't so much that prisoners are not being put to work, it is HOW they are being put to work that matters.

There are countless programs, UNICOR comes to mind, that do allow, but not force prisoners to work.

Unfortunately they way they are run as so terribly piss poor that they simply cannot compete on the open market, despite having incredibly low labor costs.

The fact of the matter is, most inmates WANT TO WORK. Especially those that are in for a long time. It's something to do to pass the time.

At present what we are seeing though, is a criminal justice system designed to bleed money off of taxpayers, as a form of a slush fund, and a proliferation privately run, for profit prisons that put inmates to work, for the benefit of privately owned corporations. Not taxpayers.

Further these private prisons are subsidized through innumerable tax breaks, and receive funding per inmate.

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What about people who are wrongly convicted? It's not as clear cut as you make it sound. Not everyone in prison deserves to be hurt/killed.

I understand your point of course, but prison should be for the rehabilitation of criminals. As it stands now the US prison system doesn't care about trying to integrate them back into society.
There is really nothing about the US justice system that promotes rehabilitation. If anything the opposite is true, and people who could be rehabilitated are turned into repeat offenders instead.

One of the major problems with the justice system as it stands, is once you "do your time" you are still punished for life.

Nor can someone just out, move somewhere to get a fresh start. People's records, even for small, stupid mistakes, haunt them for life in the form of background checks.

More than anything I applaud businesses that simply refuse to do criminal background checks, but instead rely on good monitoring of their employees, as well as personal and professional references.

Edit: On a lighter note...


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Old 05-31-2013, 04:01 PM #390
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Rainbow- not saying they SHOULD BE hurt or killed, just saying there should be something that causes people to actually think before they commit a crime. You are always going to have those that just plain old don't care weather they go to jail or not. As far as the people who are wrongly convicted, I have a theory that if those who accuse someone of a crime, irregardless whether it be state, federal, or citizen; there needs to be a law that, if found out the accused was innocent, then those whom accused would receive the same punishment as the falsly accused. A lot of people would stop making false allegations if they knew they were going to have to serve the same time for lying.

I don't know anything about this work program called UNICOR; but who cares about doing well on the market? We just want something produced or service rendered that is going to cover some,most or all of the cost of keeping these people in jail. And what's with the prisioners in some states actually getting paid for the work they do? I know it's not a lot of money but anything at all is too much. I don't get it. And yes I believe in capital punishment. If someone is convicted of murder, beyond the shadow of a doubt,( they found the guy with gun in hand, or had him on video killing someone) they should have no more than 30days to say there goodbies and make peace with whom-ever they want to.
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Old 05-31-2013, 04:34 PM #391
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Rainbow- not saying they SHOULD BE hurt or killed, just saying there should be something that causes people to actually think before they commit a crime. You are always going to have those that just plain old don't care weather they go to jail or not. As far as the people who are wrongly convicted, I have a theory that if those who accuse someone of a crime, irregardless whether it be state, federal, or citizen; there needs to be a law that, if found out the accused was innocent, then those whom accused would receive the same punishment as the falsly accused. A lot of people would stop making false allegations if they knew they were going to have to serve the same time for lying.
In theory I agree with you. Unfortunately that is really not likely to ever happen.

The main reason being, is our justice system does not find people to be innocent.

The judicial system can only produce an acquittal. A verdict of NOT GUILTY, which is not at all the same as saying that someone is innocent.

What I think would make more sense, is for the person acquitted of the crime to be compensated fully for their time and suffering.

With civil court that's an option - often the winning party is awarded at least the legal fees involved. Unfortunately if it's the government that pursues you, you're kind of screwed, and only if you are actually wrongfully convicted, and manage to prove it, do you stand a chance of getting any compensation.

It's a thoroughly screwed up system

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I don't know anything about this work program called UNICOR; but who cares about doing well on the market? We just want something produced or service rendered that is going to cover some,most or all of the cost of keeping these people in jail. And what's with the prisioners in some states actually getting paid for the work they do? I know it's not a lot of money but anything at all is too much. I don't get it. And yes I believe in capital punishment. If someone is convicted of murder, beyond the shadow of a doubt,( they found the guy with gun in hand, or had him on video killing someone) they should have no more than 30days to say there goodbies and make peace with whom-ever they want to.
You missed the point entirely.

The point being that there are programs to put inmates to work, but they are so inefficient that they end up costing more than they produce.

As for payment, the compensation is minimal. The fact of the matter is most inmates end up funneling whatever they earn right back into the system, to purchase minor little things, like being able to call family.

You also kind of need an incentive because of the "cruel and unusual" bit in the constitution. You can't make people work if they don't want to.

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Old 05-31-2013, 05:05 PM #392
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

At a further level on the wtf scale, even at the local, municipal level, this is why police departments are now days so aggressive about arrests. They want, and need bodies in the cells. Doesn't matter if the person is later found to be not guilty, they will still get payment for housing the supposed criminal.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:04 PM #393
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Reagan was extremely photogenic, and well spoken. He could inspire people through his speeches.

Sadly that seems to count for more than what is actually done under the guidance of the president.

The same is true of our current president. He blames the last administration - as well he should - but at the same time perpetuates the problems, and continues the process.

Welcome to US politics I guess? Do as I say, not as I do, and I'm up for sale to the higher bidder. (Especially after the creation of the super pacs.)
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:07 PM #394
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

The discussion is Moot. The Federal systems have to justify costs to continue receiving or increasing funding. Profitability, Effectiveness, "Rehabilitation" none of these things matter. The only thing that matters is justifying spending to continue receiving or increasing funding. It is the exact opposite of a logical business model. I knew someone in the Postal System many years ago. There was a ton of surplus goods everywhere, it was so wasteful. They just kept requisitioning goods to make quota so they could continue receiving funding for the next cycle. Now we see the Postal system facing some serious financial issues. Very Sad...

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Old 05-31-2013, 06:19 PM #395
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Go anarchy.....um I mean can we get back to guns please. just kidding, BTW what do you think of the .300 Blackout?
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:53 PM #396
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Default Re: Gun Discussion


Just finished going through and watching it all again.


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Old 06-01-2013, 05:56 AM #397
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Default Re: Gun Discussion



Quote:
In March, a 7-year-old boy from Maryland was suspended for unintentionally biting his pop tart into the shape of a gun.

A third grader in Michigan was reprimanded by school officials when he brought a cupcake to school with a plastic toy soldier, holding a gun, on top of it.

A ten year old Virginia boy who was arrested for taking a plastic toy gun to school was forced to deal with a potentially permanent criminal record over the incident.

A student in Florence, Arizona was recently suspended because he had a picture of a gun on his computer.

A six-year-old kindergartner in South Carolina was suspended for taking a small transparent plastic toy gun to school for a show and tell.

A five-year-old in Massachusetts who faced suspension for building a small toy gun out of lego bricks and play-shooting his classmates.

We also reported on an incident that erupted when a discussion between two children about a toy nerf gun caused a lockdown and a massive armed police response at two elementary schools in the Bronx.

In another incident, a Long Island high school was also placed on lock down for 6 hours in response to a student carrying a toy nerf gun.

The nerf gun was once again the deadly weapon of choice as a university campus in Rhode Island was placed on lockdown, causing panic and minor injuries when a stampede to flee the building ensued.

In another incident, a teacher at Malden High School in Massachusetts who glimpsed sight of a “gun”, alerted police who rushed to the scene only to discover a neon water pistol. School officials then vowed to track down the suspect who brought the toy to school using surveillance cameras.

A South Philadelphia elementary student was searched in front of classmates and threatened with arrest after she mistakenly brought a “paper gun” to school.

A 6-year-old boy was suspended from his elementary school, also in Maryland, for making a gun gesture with his hand and saying “pow”.

Another two 6-year-olds in Maryland were suspended for pointing their fingers into gun shapes while playing “cops and robbers” with each other.

A couple of second grade students at a Virginia elementary school were recently suspended for two days after violating the school’s “zero tolerance” policy on weapons when they pointed pencils at other students and made gun noises.

In Oklahoma, a five-year-old boy was also recently suspended for making a gun gesture with his hand.


A 13-year-old Middle School seventh grade student in Pennsylvania was also suspended for the same hand gesture.
This is kind of scary. Kids are literally being taught to fear EVERYTHING.

I was joking before about it being a thread having a picture of a gun in a book, yet it seems there is already a case of suspension where a picture was on a computer...

15-25 years before many of those same kids are on police forces throughout the US.

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Old 06-01-2013, 06:07 AM #398
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I remember going into Wal-marts as a child and seeing people open-carrying. It never scared me, but you don't see that so much any more. bottom line, someone who intends to do you harm will not have their weapon visible in most cases. good deeds are done in view of all, bad ones in the cover of darkness.

I have made it a point to thank all non-police for open carrying. I tell them I feel safer, and they are most appreciative.

I don't mean to say I have a problem with concealed carry. i only have a problem with harming others and instilling fear with intent to steal liberty
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:20 AM #399
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

It is getting beyond insane Infinitus. Seriously. I have no memes to express how I feel. Rather distressing

ShakenAwake, if someone open carried where I live SWAT would be on em' in a heartbeat.

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Old 06-01-2013, 06:44 AM #400
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Unfortunately the bad guys carry whatever they want. I was mugged too and my friend's car stolen right in front of our house. I moved out of SF years ago. It is interesting to note that in low rent districts, it's a given that everybody has multiple guns for self defense and home protection, but not in the "nice" neighborhoods.

I know business owners who have a legitimate need that can't even get a CCW license. I'm leaning more and more towards Gun ownership. It's a big shift for me as I grew up very liberal.

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