Old 04-22-2013, 03:37 AM #273
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

devices you hunt with and devices you defend (or attack) with have by and large been same/similar devices. When you want or need to kill something, be it an animal to eat or a human to defend youself, you pick the best thing you can get a hold of for the purpose.

hunting, and delf defense (or offense) are rather intertwined and go hand in hand, practically inseparable.

agriculture and domestication didn't really "obviate" the need for firearm hunting, per se. There were professional hunters until fairly recently in societies around the world. farmng and farm animals works GREAT when you sit in one place. Yet, if you are traveling, or the water dries up, or the rains dont come... or any of the zillion other reasons the crops are not present or good yield, hunting was still a necessity.

domesticated meat is a lovely thing, but, good meat has always been an expensive item. Really, you have to be fairly well off, even in todays society, to eat steak and pork chops every night. When we look at history in hstory books, we take as some sort of "given" that agriculture and cow/pig flesh was handily available to all the villagers.

really, it wasnt. If you did not have a tiny subsistence farm, you ight not GET any meat hardly ever unless you went out and killed it yourself. What we think of tody as the "working class" and the "working poor" in the cities, back then, often didnt have enough to eat and meat was a rarity.

professional hunters went out and got meat, and bartered it for all the other things they needed and wanted.

try not to make the mistake history wise that feasts and festivals, with the large feast-table was for "everybody". THAT set up was only for nobles and other elites. Common folks only got THAT treatment a couple days a year for festivals and holidays. Simple bread and some ground up cornmeal might be all you lived on for weeks at a time as a regular person.

Cities are WONDERFUL place to live, so long as you happen to be born into a rich, noble, ruling class family. Being POOR or COMMON in a city? *not so great*, even today. I know myself, my PY goes up and down according to how busy my shop i work at is. When its slow for an extended period of time? I really gont get much MEAT. I treasure scoring a deer and i gorge on the MEAT every night for weeks. My CATS really enjoy that too.

Even today? What we a take for granted is "civilization". It seems barbaric to go shoot poor, cute deer and eat it after butchering the carcass. If something happened? the difference between "civiliztion" and "every man for himself" is bout 72 hours after the grocery store isnt getting a truck in.

Even then, people say "oh well, you stock the pantry, you have a freezer full of stuff..." and again, this is for established people who are firly well off according to their system. Plenty of poor people in one room aprtments that dont have such things. Myself? When the shop is slow? Welfre bums eat better than i do, and i'm not joking, i'm being honest.

nother thing most people dont realize, is that many people enjoy hunting and fishing and hiking, even if they dont have to do it. In todays modern world, we think of it as normal to work 5, sometimes 6 or 7 days a week, all year round. 8,10,12, 14 hours every day. Many people with a "good job" dont have any free time to do what they please. Hunting and gathering for a "living"? Is not nearly as barbaric as we think of it as, really. Sociologists tell us the everage "workday" was something like 4 hours a day, and much of it was seasonal.

civilization isnt all its cracked up to be, unless your at the top of the food chain.


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Old 04-22-2013, 04:44 AM #274
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Saturday was full of some awesome fun for myself and other members of the AR15.com Carolina's group. A member there organized the event and a range a few miles from the NC/SC border let us use it for a couple days. Here's some of the some videos I took and a couple pictures.

Here's the flying propane tank. I would've zoomed out had I known it was going to fly so high. The videos are best viewed in 1080.



Fifteen pounds of tannerite that got the cops to show up.



Myself shooting the HK UMP 45 that showed up after 15 pounds of tannerite went off.



And finally the video of some tracer rounds heading downrange.




Here's a couple pictures.

The propane tank. It will be sitting on my front porch. I might make a warning sign to put by it.



Here's the small crater from the 15 pounder that got the cops called.

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Old 04-22-2013, 03:44 PM #275
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Those videos of HK and the tracer rounds... perfect examples of full auto vs semi auto. Going to use them
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:01 PM #276
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

yeah, here in the states we have more freedom with guns, and yeah, sometimes we make it look like its all in fun (which it is, in a way) but, keep in mind?

that guy to get a full auto fun-gun for blasting? he had to:

1) go to a special class III dealer
2) pay for the gun up front
3) fill out 3x as much paperwork as for a normal gun
4) sit back and w-a-i-t while the FBI actually conducts a thorough bakground check
5) 3 to 9 months later? if at all? he gets "approved", he can NOW go pick up the gun he bought 9 months ago (rather like a pregnancy, lol)
6) he NOW has a "number" on his forms, so any subsequent full auto or other class III purchases *usually* sil right thru. (why not the background check is done) they just check for any additions to his file. if he hasnt beat the wife or robbed a liqur store, hes good.

================================================== =========

rounds from his gun have been fired and put on file in some police laboratory, if he does go shoot something up nd they dont know who did it, he knows they WILL know directly.

my point? the full aut class III weapon has n-o-t been handed over willy nilly to just any nincompoop off the street. You CANT buy it mail order off the internet, and you CANT buy one at a gun show through any "loophole". To listen to our MEDIA, one would get the idea you just send in 3 box tops from cheerio's to get a full auto like that, such is not the case.

no one has everf HEARD of a crime being ommitted with one of these class III weapons, let alone shown documenttion of it. I'm sure it has "happened" before, but, lightning strikes preachers dead during sunday services more often. I honestly cant understand how some @$$ clown buying something on the black market and going out sprayign the neighborhood after a drug deal gone sour even remotely has anything to DO WITH IT.

any silly laws you make up? They prevent THAT guy from having HIS machine gun... and the nitwit drug dealer STILL HAS access anytime he wants to the SAME black market. Itsa complete snow job from the media here, which is what i assume you guys hear in other countries about the states.

now, say someone DID commit a murder. Murder with bare hands, murder with a sharpened #2 pencil, murdered someone by drowning them in a bathtub, mudrer most foul... or, say, murdered them with a AR15... murder is already illegal, you can already put the murderer in jail for life, you can already charge him with a capitl crime and kill him by lethal injection...

any talk of "rational common sense restrictions"? Wellllllll. lets see here, a PLANE ALMOST WENT DOWN from a laser pointer, you dont NEED a laser over 5mW for a presentation pointer ANYways...

....oh, whats the matter? Did that common sense restriction make your stomach lurch? Because it affected YOUR hobby that aint hurting anyone? Welcome to the world of the legal gun owner in the states...
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:35 PM #277
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

That is actually quite oversimplified. If you're in one of the nanny states, CA, NY, NJ, etc, the process is made nearly impossible.

Even if the FBI confirms you have no criminal record, and you get their blessing, the state still has the option not to issue, if it is a "may issue" state. Which unfortunately too many are.

About perception outside the US, of US gun ownership. Speaking to 3 guys from England, where as you know steak knives are the weapon of choice, their perception is that half of americans own multiple guns.

That it is as easy as walking to your corner store to buy a machine gun.

There is zero understanding of what is full, and semi auto.

In fact, when specifically asked "what is semi-auto" all of them told me that it's when you can fire three or five round bursts! It was inconceivable to them, that semi auto means 1 trigger pull, one bullet fired.

The media, politicians, and Obama, all unfortunately deceive, and exploit, where this distinction is concerned.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:14 PM #278
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Infinitusequitas
Quote: True assault rifles(capableof full auto)are already illegal to own for civilians.

Incorrect sir. Full autos built prior to 1986 are legal for civilian ownership as long as they pass a federal background check and pay the $200 tax stamp.
The crimes that are committed with full auto gun are ones that have been obtained illegally.
IMO, most of these incidents with guns usually happen during a time of despession. Be it financially or mentally. Who's to blame? Who can say? How have we treated one another lately? Yes, are guns an easier means of accompishing the acts; sure. Did someone want the attention? As stated before in different ways, people are the problem.
Why was the sling or slingshot made? Because the rock wasn't as efficent in hunting. Remember, guns came from the production of fireworks. Something meant to be enjoyed, but someone along the way made a choice, and created something capable of destrution. Was that the intent? I don't know, I wasn't there. But it's the choices we make in the end.
I also have one theory: that the world is over populated and we don't have the means to support the populas and people are stressed out about . i.e.(how am I going to feed my kids) Not that it give us the right to go around killing people, but when I first started working, it was almost unheard of to work a third shift job or weekends. Now it's 24/7.
But as a guy I work with said the world is not peace but in chaos, just look at nature and the destruction that occurs just to cleanse the planet. I certainlly don't have the solution; just trying to survive.

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Old 04-22-2013, 09:23 PM #279
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RawPaul View Post
Infinitusequitas
Quote: True assault rifles(capableof full auto)are already illegal to own for civilians.

Incorrect sir. Full autos built prior to 1986 are legal for civilian ownership as long as they pass a federal background check and pay the $200 tax stamp.
You are 100% correct. What I meant is they are effectively illegal. Meaning as good as illegal.

For someone to obtain an assault rifle capable of full auto, would require them purchasing a rifle from before 1986, and these are very, very expensive. Not something a person of average, or even moderately above average income, would be able to obtain.

Committing a crime with such a weapon would be asinine - for someone that obtains it legally, simply selling it would be the better option.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:45 PM #280
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

But.... stupid people do stupid things. I would say the illegal purchase of a full auto is not cheap either. It is more likely purchased to make a higher gain in monentery status. I have no problem with the government having documentation of what I have or what others have. Just let's them know we believe in our 2nd ammendment right, and will support it.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:08 PM #281
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Default Re: Gun Discussion



Peace,
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:09 PM #282
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Peace,
dave
...that is hilariously ignorant on so many levels. I'll assume it's satire and retain my faith in the human race.

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:06 PM #283
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

(tinfoil hat warning) I came across a study a while back called the "Report from Iron Mountain" It has been circulating for a while. Not here to debate its validity or anything else here. Just wanted to share something that I thought was interesting and perhaps relevant to the discussion. One of its conclusions was that there was no precedent for "Peace" in human history. Now this idea has taken me a while to wrap my head around. I grew up on 70's 80's television and have always had the notion that the ultimate "goal" was peace. Now the idea that "Peace" is not possible and there is no precedent for it in all of human history really bothered me. The logic seems sound though.

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Old 04-27-2013, 08:42 AM #284
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Not to mention the resistant Staph infections that hospitals are seeing more of. And possibly spreading within a hospital ward. Oh, and FYI never touch a sickly armadillo. They are carriers of the deadly leprosy bacterium. You don't want your nose falling of in your soup.

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Old 04-27-2013, 11:04 AM #285
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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You don't want your nose falling of in your soup.
Yes, i wouldn't recommend that
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:32 PM #286
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:57 PM #287
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I'm willing to bet that if you overlay income, and unemployment, over that data, it would also be quite telling.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:04 PM #288
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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I'm willing to bet that if you overlay income, and unemployment, over that data, it would also be quite telling.
And population density.

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