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Old 04-19-2013, 12:38 PM #257
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Wow... there's some weird people in this world. Now i think of it there was a cannibal on the new here once as well! He seemed pretty calm in his interview and everything, he was just like "Yes, i suppose i am a cannibal because i did eat another human." I end this post restating what i first thought...


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Old 04-19-2013, 05:23 PM #258
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
I thought the article explained that pretty well.

Yes!

It's a split second, unrational, un-thought through decision. Your genes have nothing to do with your sorrounding, who make you miserable day by day and driving you towards suicide.
Someone once explained suicide in an interesting way. They likened it to being in a burning building, near a window. As they look down at the pavement below, at some point the fear of staying where they are and the fear of the flames becomes greater than their fear of jumping from the building. Thus, they choose to end their life.

I think their explanation was based on the words of the philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer, who said "as soon as the terrors of life reach the point at which they outweigh the terrors of death, a man will put an end to his life."

Here's Shopenhauer's essay on suicide: Studies in Pessimism, by Arthur Schopenhauer : ON SUICIDE.

I think many suicides are still a product of an irrational decision, but perhaps not all of them. Perhaps not even a supermajority.

Just interesting to ponder.

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Old 04-20-2013, 01:42 AM #259
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I think it is just completely stupid when people kill themselves, but not always, there is always exceptions. When they kill themselves they leave there loved ones miserable and depressed, some of their loved ones might even go as far as killing themselves because they can't take the pressure or just think if they kill themselves they will be with them. Then there is more people miserable and depressed because another person killed themselves.

I think it is just irrational when people kill themselves, a few months ago someone killed themselves over a girl. How do you think the girl would of felt, or even his parents or what about his little brother who found him hanging by the sealing? Say someone was trapped somewhere in a war torn country (Afghanistan) and they were being tortured by terrorists and the terrosists were keeping them alive just to torture them, if the person trapped found a way to take their life, i would not expect them to endure that torture. That would be an exception.

I am going a bit off topic, but i never understood why people cut their wrists. Why harm yourself if you think your life is crap anyway?
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Old 04-20-2013, 02:52 AM #260
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by Laik View Post
I am going a bit off topic, but i never understood why people cut their wrists. Why harm yourself if you think your life is crap anyway?
In order to begin understanding cutting, or suicide, you have to first understand depression.

I'm not talking about how you occasional feel down.

Or that extreme low after a fight or breakup.

Or even the sadness you experience mourning for a passed loved one.

Be thankful, be very thankful, you never experienced true depression.

If you want an approximation of what it feels like, put on a backpack weighing 100lb and carry it constantly. While you work, while you eat, when you go for a run, and on your chest at night while you sleep, so it is always on you, it is the last thing you feel as you fall asleep, and the first thing you feel when you wake up.

Now imagine no matter what you do, you can't take that weight off. Never. At all. Not for a second.

Imagine how you will feel after a day. A week. A month. A year.

You think you'll get stronger, and won't notice the weight anymore. But as you keep going, it just keeps getting heavier, and heavier.

The burden never eases up.

Every waking moment, everything you do, there is a crushing weight on you.

That's a little of what depression feels like.

Don't believe me? Go strap on a backpack, and get back to me in a month.

Now why do people harm themselves?

It varies slightly from one case to the next, but generally because it is a way for them to feel something.

Something other than that crushing weight.

Bah! Now I feel depressed. Back to guns please.

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Old 04-20-2013, 05:19 AM #261
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

i know if someone grew up in the CITY, then perceptions are different. In a large metropolitan city in america, most citizens cant carry a gun. You only SEE guns in the hands of police, or, in teh hands of some miscreant. The RESULTS of a gun, are that the police shot someone, a crackhead shot someone, etc etc. I can see where growing up then living in a big city, your opinion gets shaped negatively.

Grow up in the country, or in a small town? Its vastly different. Growing up (I'm 44) 3 our fo 4 households had guns. There were no gun safes, they were hung up on pegs on the wall, sitting in a corner, or at the most in the traditional glass/wood case. More fathers and uncles hunted than didnt hunt, it was very normal. If your dad hunted, that kid (all of 10 yers old too) usually had a 22 in his room, maybe a single shot shotgun too. Ammo was always on a shelf nearby.

Guns in school? Kids that drove often had a shotgun in the window of their dads work truck, they were hunting before and after school for whateer season it was. My family NOT having guns and hunting, actually made me the odd kid in my circle, actually. I got into it in my 20s.

I enjoy target shooting mroe often than hunting, but i do enjoy groundhog hunting. ALso squirrel and bird hunting. I have shot at ranges up to and including 1000 yards. 200 to 300 would be a more typical day though. I will say shooting an animal, then skinning it and eating it? It takes some getting used to, the first couple times.

Yet, I look at it like this. Unless youre a vegetarian, most people enjoy a nice steak now and again. Where does that steak come from? (dont say the grocery store). I see COWS in pastures driving around on backroads all my life, it never was a mystery to me "where" that steak came from, it was a cow's @$$ at one time. How did that cow's @$$ get from moo-ing and farting and belching in the asture... and onto your plate? Hm?

I'll tell you how, though its obvious. Someone killed that cow. That person or another person cut the cows carcass up (yes, its a grim task), perhaps someone else cut it up further, and eventually you put it on a plate after a grilling session and you eat it.

the main point? All i do when i shoot a deer or a squirrel or a rabbirt, then eat it? I am cutting out the middleman, is all. Heck, I dont even have to go hunting a lot of years, LMAO... i walk home, sometimes there's a deer with the head cut of laying in the snow, with a NOTE taped to the door. "Got one, i already got 3 in the freezer, no more room. Enjoy!"

as an analogy? MOST people dont think abotu the how or the why of... a laser pointer! They just go and order one. If it quits working, they change the batteries. If it still doesnt work, they order another one. Thats like eating a steak at a resaurant. OTHER people (all of you here?) you order the diode, the body, the driver, the host, the sink.... and you put it all together yourself. Some people get a "headache" tryin to learn how a laser pointer works, other people cant get over the weak stomach of butchering a carcass then eating it. Everything is not for everybody.

People often say "I could never go to a GUN range! I would never feel SAFE with all those guns going off... *shiver*" Really, its quite the opposite. Each and every person there shooting? I know everyone of them is a father, a son, a busines owner or has a JOB. I know everybody there owns a lot of guns, so, there are no crackheds or felons there.

Here's another stumper for you. How many shootings at a gun range have you even HEARD of, much less can document? (I know of ONE, thats it) Now then, is a school a safe place to be? It is a gun free zone, after all! I can rattle off a LIST of school shootings. How about the mall? How about working in a store?

When i am in the big city (where guns are forbidden)? I hear sirens and gunshots constantly. 3 murders on a tuesday? Heck, the police expect at least one more, thats the average, you know. When i am in the country? Where practically every house owns hunting rifles, and every other BELT has a 45 openly displayed on it when i go get gas or groceries? The gas station has *never* been robbed at gunpoint, the locals vagely understand what a "home invasion style" robber even IS. (to them, its something that happens in the big city)

now, which place am i more LIKELY to be randomly killed or robbed at? The big city? Or out in the country small town? Eh? Crackheads and lunatics and other nefarious never do wells? They typically take ONE look around at all the guns in all the houses and on all the hip holsters, and they dont like it one bit... they go off to the city, where such crap is tolerated.

more guns = less violent crime. Kids that grow up in houses where "dad" and "uncle" hunt and target shoot? For one thing, the family obviously isnt a bunch of drug dealing welfare bums, thats one thing. No felons either. For another? The kids dont pick up guns and "play" with them. The kids grow up knowing they go to the range on saturday and shoot then. Kids raised around guns dont have "accidents" like happens when you lock the guns up and pretend they dont exist.

there are naturally exceptions, like with anything involving millions of examples. But statistically? I know i am MUCH safer, surrounded by friends and strangers carrying guns and going hunting and shooting.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:20 AM #262
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

sedstar, how many acres do you have? I am just curious
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:25 AM #263
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:47 AM #264
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Greetings laik...

let me access my crystal ball... its coming to me now...

1) hes from australia
2) they had a couple bad shootings a ways back, and they instituted a *lot* of firearms restrictions, that admittedly vary region to region (i call the divisions ""states", I forget what the australians call them)
3) one of those restrictions involves "acreage". basically, you have to own a lot of land to own a crossbow, and, twice as many acres to own a rifle?

================================================== =========

i live in a small town, i have neighbors. I dont "touch off" anything bigger than a pellet rifle here at home, ha ha.

I am a member of a club who's sole purpose is for us to all have a place to shoot (25 - 220 yards, you can squeeze out 375 when the place is empty)

my one buddys club, the yardage is up to 400-500 yards. The other friends club goes to 600.

once a year a group i am in, we all get together. This will be the second year running we make a "side trip" to that group member's private club 1000 yrd range. (does happy dance).

in case your wondering, my group size @ 1000 yards was 5 to 6 inches, in really high winds. A fellow club member was my "spotter" and called the considerable switch-winds for me. The OTHER club member was nice enough to let me use his uber-rifle for my groups. Gun was a full-custom 7mmAM (allen magnum). Its basically a 338 lapua mag, necked down to 7mm, and "blown out" for more case capacity, with a custom throat. Ridiculous recoil and velocity, 7mm pills were 175gr over something like 120 grains of slow powder.

Scope was a 20x Nightforce. (scope alone costs more than my CAR, i was lucky to get to shoot such a nice custom piece). "spotter" was a Illinois state trooper, who was a long tme SWAT sniper who regularly practices there at that range. Once i was settled in, and proved i was able to rest my trigger finger reliably on a 8oz crisp custom trigger AND "send it" on command from the spotter, i was allowed to shoot. By the second shot, i realized was now able (with the spotter calling the wind only) to take head shots on steel man-sized targets at 1k.

f i die tomorrow, i die happy. I finally got to shoot a full on custom at 1000 yards, at a real range. (and i didnt embarass myself, I was worried about that)

the swat shooter was walking the shooting lines all morning, watching all the shooters having a ball on a "real" range all day. We didnt know we were being picked through to get to shoot the custom. Myself and 2 other shooters out of a field of 40+ on the line, were selected for form and trigger control.

My own gun I was using that day, was considerably "less gun". 8-32x mildot scope on top of a customized winchester 70. Caliber was the venerable 264RLB, a wildcat. (one of 8 in the world, at present. MAY-be nine or 10 have been made so far by now? I'd have to check. Mine is serial number "seven")

i didnt anticipate long range shooting, so, i ran out of scope so to speak between 300 and 400 yards. Gun was sub-MOA out to 300 all day long. The round is trans-sonic out to 1k, and the CALIBER (not my exact gun though) has won a 1k sanctioned match.

140g 6.5mm Hornady boat tails.

THIS year? I'm going to be a little more prepared to enjoy such a range. (so far, the long range record g-hog kill at the range, with witnesses, is 1500+ yards.)
================================================== ============

"acreage" requirements (IMHO) are predicated on the belief that only people that have a certain amount of money, are somehow more responsible and trustworthy to own and use firearms. I'm certainly not given to know what a acre costs in australia, but, here in the states? if you find an acre of dirt for under a couple graand an acre, you got a good deal. "large acre spreads" are only for people that have a "certain" yearly income, or, are otherwise somehow well off.

I dont need to have acreage to enjoy shooting, I just hop in the CAR and drive to a suitable range.

PS - i get asked this by my hunting buddies, in the movie "shooter" they wonder if it REALLY matters after 1000 yards for target shooting if you REALLY have to take account of the rotation of the earth? or of it is just made up for the movie to sound cool?

actually, yes. Time of flight is long enough, and the distance far enough... that the earth rotates a fraction of a degree under the flight of the bullet. If you are shooting due north its 6 inches ONE way 6 inches the other way if you are shooting due south.(windage adjustment)

Thats 6 inches at Los Angeles CA... where your located on the globe determines how far the earth rotates during flight, as well as time of flight of the projectile. SHooting due EAST or WEST, causes the target to "rise" or "fall" a small distance.(elevation)

obviously, if you are shooting a combination of say east and north it gets complicated. Your latitude and longitude on the globe determines the amount of movement after distance and flight time.

its called the "coriolis effect". I dont have to worry about it, the owner of the gun has a softwre package for all that, and, SWAT-boy is the "wind whisperer" ha ha.

yes, I'm rather passionate about my shooting "hobby", its a big part of my life. I really dont understand why 15years of "hard work" should be risked going down the tubes, just cos some nitwit quit taking his medication and shoots up a schoolhouse 6 states away from me, lol.

this is all why i am on the "night scope IR illuminator" project... pesky coyotes have been taking pet cats and calves... and they are a shoot-on-sight varmint in this county. Since they only pop their heads at 2 to 4 in the morning? the "on sight" part is difficult, and requires IR illumination at quite a distance.

just imagine coming upon your pet cat's HEAD in the backyard i the morning with blood, fur, and coyote prints around it? (or your hunting dog whichever) and try explaining it all to a 6 year old, that was her pet.

these coyotes, when i am done with the project? Those people with the farm, they are not going to have a coyote problem... the coyotes are going to have a SEDSTAR problem. heh heh...
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:46 PM #265
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

You need a license for a gun and crossbow. To shoot a gun on someones property, it needs to be at least 40 acres. So it is at least 20 acres to shoot a crossbow on someones property. I only have 24 acres, all my friends have at least 150 I just asked how many acres you had mate.... and you still didn't tell me
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:35 PM #266
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

He doesn't have "acreage"
He lives in a small town

Peace,
dave
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:52 PM #267
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

sorry laik... my apologies.

I was avoiding answering the question directly becausse *most* of my cool gun friends live on farms or farm sized properties, so i am slightly embarrassed.

*sigh*

You dont measure land in small towns in acres, my property is 2 "lots" that were joined together by a previous owner. I want to remember its something like 60 feet by 120 feet (d0nt quote me)

but, thats twice the size of most of the neighbors acreage, since someone doubled up my property befor i bought it. (trying to be positive, lol). I am the last inhabited house on my "block", the only other house on my "block" is scheduled to be torn down.

now if you asked my 2 CATS how much property "we" owned? They seem to be under the impression "we" own the entire wooded "block", ha ha.

Just wated to make the point that just because i am not "rich" per-se, is no reason i cant enjoy the shooting sports to the fullest. here in the states? if you suddenly proposed limiting rifle "permits" to only oeople who could afford 40 acre spreads? We would consider it a de-facto rifle ban.

i basically "skimp" on house and car purchases in my life so i can afford the more IMPORTANT things in life. Electronics equipment firearms and reloading equipment (now maybe lasers) amongst them.

cheers mate! On my gun/reloading website we have an australian guy, hes seems like a right good chap. I'm sure you are too. My other experience with australians was a guy on a music site that helped me out a lot, so again hes a great sort fo chap and i must say my experiences with the few australians i have met online have been all positive.

you guys must have good social values down under.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:03 PM #268
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

With apologies to Godwin



Peace,
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:11 AM #269
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

If you like guns and Lasers look at this new gun sight laser Most power full Tactical Rifle laser sight for sale - YouTube
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:14 AM #270
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Oh i was just under the impression that you had acreage Where i live, acreage used to be cheap. I live in a very small town which is 15 minutes away from a slightly bigger town. Then that slightly bigger town is 7 hours away from a major city. There used to be not many people around until the big industry boom here (we bought our property 10 years before the industry boom, thats why it was so cheap). Our land is now worth a LOT of money because we are sitting on 24 acres that developers can make into tiny house blocks. My parents want to either keep 6 acres of our land and sell the rest or sell up and move somewhere else. They are even thinking of moving onto a house block

I could not stand living in town for a few reasons:
1. I wouldn't feel safe, even though nothing goes on here really.
2. No privacy, when your away from the house you can just chuck a piss on a tree. I don't think that would be acceptable in town haha
3. It would just be crap. You woudn't be able to ride motorbikes, shoot guns (although we are not allowed to shoot a gun on our property anway, but we can still shoot stuff with the .22), no spud gun, no loud music, no tractor, no dozer, no horses or cows, no ducks or chooks and annoying neighbours.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:24 AM #271
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

neighbors can be a blessing or a curse. You really dont know WHAT you get for neighbors until you are settled in for a while, then you find out what neighbor loyyery you just won or lost. I got lucky here... i bought the next to last inhabited house on a block, then a few years in the other inhabited house the people just disappeared one day. A few squatters ran off later, I am the last house lived in, and, i cant wait till that last standing house is tore down. The rest of the whole block is scrub, trees, grass and an abandoned alley i can use for a drivewy to the back end of the property.

I have neighbors, i am situated on the corner of the block, and the next block over is full. even though i live in a small town I am up on top, about a block or two from the tree line. I have a couple deer that live in the empty block, my one neighbor feeds them. I can see turkeys, deer, rabbits, possums, coons, mice, rats, etc etc.

my one closest neighbor? Hes a blessing. The sort of neighbor everyone wished they had. Hes the best handyman i ever met hands down, great fabricator, and hes one of those rare peopel that they chase people off when your out of town. The REST of the neighbors? Eh, either a curse or just sort of "feh".

I'd be happiest out in the middle of nowhere, but, you also have to live within close proximity to where you work, so... its a tradeoff. Quite frankly, i'd love to have a 40 ft trailer for me and the 2 cats to live in, and just have a large shed for work and storage, out in the sticks somewhere. I might move eventually if i ever scrape the coins up for it. The old lady of 25 years or so took off one day, so, other than work or money saved... there's not much keeping me here.

I'd rather live in what most call a "hunting cabin" anyways. have a 100 or mroe yard range off the front porch? Dare to dream, eh?

PS - 60 feet by 120 feet (best guess) is barely adequate. Being the only house left inhabited on a grown-in block, is about all tht saves it as a half decent location.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:04 AM #272
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laik View Post
Totally agree with you there, mate! Guns were designed for shooting animals, it was easier than shooting a rabbit/dear/whatever they were hunting with a gun than a bow. It's people who used them for killing other people that are idiots, the gun was never designed like that. Just like lasers were never designed to blind people, it was the other people being idiots that were making it blind people. Some people can not be trusted with weapons, thats why they have laws to restrict who gets one (at least in Australia).
You're entirely deluded. Guns are designed, first and foremost, to kill people. They were invented long after mankind domesticated animals and developed agriculture, which essentially obviated the need for hunting. The first guns were developed by the Chinese for warfare, and quickly adapted and improved specifically for their use in warfare.

Even in pioneer times the gun had more use for protection than obtaining food. Snares and traps were more effective in capturing prey for food than sneaking around to bag some large game with limited firearm supplies.

Australia is unfortunately a nanny state. Whether it is regulating what people can see on the Internet or banning laser pointers with power greater than 1mW, their lawmakers should never be admired for their backwards sense of nannying.
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