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Old 09-17-2016, 12:28 AM #1617
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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However their optics are targeting the airsoft market and not actual firearms.

As far as I know NO Chinese knockoffs are tested on actual firearms for durability.
They probably are not very shock resistant, similar issue with laser aims for firearms.

If they are worth it on firearms would depend on application really. In case it's a laser aim for self defense it would probably be acceptable if that failed after one good shot, or perhaps just lasted a magazine full.

If you shoot guns for sports or in a police/military environment you need something that keeps working for many shots. It's a reason DPSS laser sights aren't that good an idea, but nowadays you can have direct diode green ones that are just as shock resistant as good old red diode lasers.


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Old 09-18-2016, 03:18 PM #1618
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I know you're right, it's worth the price for good quality tools, the EOTech can get bumped around and stays on mark and that is very important.

I did get a few bargains yesterday at the show, THAT PLACE WAS PACKED! I better stop collecting firearms if I want to build more lasers.

I scored a Mossberg 12ga maverick NIB for 199.00, yes I already have some 12ga shotguns, but for 199.00 I just had to get it.

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Old 09-18-2016, 04:53 PM #1619
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Thumbs up Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
I know you're right, it's worth the price for good quality tools, the EOTech can get bumped around and stays on mark and that is very important.

I did get a few bargains yesterday at the show, THAT PLACE WAS PACKED! I better stop collecting firearms if I want to build more lasers.

I scored a Mossberg 12ga maverick NIB for 199.00, yes I already have some 12ga shotguns, but for 199.00 I just had to get it.

IMHO guns are a better investment than gold.

I have never owned a gun that became worth less than I paid for it.



The market on lasers is the other way around.

Red, your just keeping a balance of wise investments.
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Old 09-18-2016, 06:54 PM #1620
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I always collected for pleasure, never for profit, but I sure wish I had kept some of those private cash buys that I enjoyed but sold because they were not practical/tactical enough.

If things go bad after this election the black market will go nuts, the criminal element in America will never be disarmed, but law abiding people may not ever go out to buy groceries after dark again.

If people don't stand and fight infringement, no matter what it cost, then the life we have known will change, because the only thing keeping some of the nastiest thugs in check is their not knowing who is armed.

Some people just wont believe that, they may say I am paranoid, but after you have seen the evil men are capable of you will want to know you can save you and yours from it if that day should come, and once it is enabled, it will flourish.
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Old 09-18-2016, 07:22 PM #1621
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Being an FFL business owner is bitter sweet. All sorts of guns coming and going. My semi/private (for the right price anything is for sale/got to have guns for customers to try before they buy a bran new one) collection has become an evolving organism seemingly with it's own mind. Sometimes old attributes that are lost are missed, but new ones are always being added.
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Old 09-24-2016, 11:21 AM #1622
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

AaronT, that shotgun is lovely. Looks like it packs punch. How do you brace a gun like that for firing? Does it have a snap/fold out shoulder pad or is it actually designed for hip firing? (I know little about guns)

I've never properly contributed to this thread but I'd forgotten about this photo from 5 odd years ago that I rescued before I closed my FB account:



That double barreler was awesome and had a great kick to it - it was a bit old and haggard but still worked a charm. I never had the balls to fire off both barrels at once (Doom 2 style lol) and given my low body mass it probably wouldn't have been a smart idea anyway.

I overcame my "fear" that firing a shotgun would force me backwards at a teambuilding event a year or so prior, and learned that as long as you dig it into your shoulder properly even a 60kg lightweight like myself can fire one no problem. Ever since then I was hooked, and gladly take any opportunity (though they don't come up much) to "have a shot" as we say over here.

I'd like to own a shotgun one day, although here in the UK you get into very hot water by even thinking of using it as home defence, and if you don't kill the intruder you are certain to get a more harsh prison sentence than them.
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:55 PM #1623
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

The 12ga pistol grips I just hold up and sight down the barrel, so it kicks a bit.

You can fire from shoulder height comfortably or hip height, but at the range I keep them up at my head height and use a firm grip.

One time years ago I had one that I was running through the magazine as fast as I could pump and fire hitting the target, I mean just obliterating the target and I kept creeping closer to my face as I was focused on hitting the target, well on that last shot I let the recoil drive the grip in my hand back and hit myself on my upper lip.

I tried to play it off like I didn't just do that until the blood started dripping down from my lip, it was a very minor lip cut that needed no treatment.

Some might say that was bad for me to let that happen, but I did what was important, I kept control of the weapon and every shot I fired was on target, and that is job # 1, but I learned not to let it creep back when shooting fast, I'm sure I am not the first to learn that.

I can fire slugs and buckshot with pistol grip shotguns, but some frail persons should not try it, or start with a light bird loads and work your way up.

It's really not that big of a deal, a proper stance and a firm grip and the worst you get is a sore hand if you shoot a lot in a day.

This Mossberg I just picked up came with a nice rubbery Hogue grip factory installed, it soaks up the sharpness of the recoil and the finger groves help the shooter keep a solid grip.

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Old 09-25-2016, 01:28 AM #1624
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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IMHO guns are a better investment than gold.

I have never owned a gun that became worth less than I paid for it.
I doubt that'd hold true in the long term though. Apart from collectors items guns don't really increase in value over time as they don't become more effective compared to recently built ones or anything like that.

One thing that could change that is more stringent legislation driving up the price of firearms on the black market. I would not expect any sensational results from this though. Firearm posession has been banned here for several decades but the price of illegal firearms has not gone up that much.

The biggest effect of posession ban here has been a limitation of choice. Black market availability of firearms isn't really limiting the option to get -a- gun, but if you want a specific one that could be difficult. As an ethousiast that could be a problem, but for a criminal looking for a firearm to pull off a robbery or something like that it's no problem really. It's not like a .45 is much more likely to kill you than a .38.
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Old 09-25-2016, 01:58 AM #1625
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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I doubt that'd hold true in the long term though. Apart from collectors items guns don't really increase in value over time as they don't become more effective compared to recently built ones or anything like that.

One thing that could change that is more stringent legislation driving up the price of firearms on the black market. I would not expect any sensational results from this though. Firearm posession has been banned here for several decades but the price of illegal firearms has not gone up that much.

The biggest effect of posession ban here has been a limitation of choice. Black market availability of firearms isn't really limiting the option to get -a- gun, but if you want a specific one that could be difficult. As an ethousiast that could be a problem, but for a criminal looking for a firearm to pull off a robbery or something like that it's no problem really. It's not like a .45 is much more likely to kill you than a .38.
A well built and cared for firearm will outlast generations of owners, more than long enough to become an antique.

An old bullet will kill you just as dead as a new one.

For example. The 1911 has remained unchanged for 100 years, today it remains one of the top 5 most popular types of firearms.
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Old 09-26-2016, 01:21 AM #1626
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

The 1911 design is a good one i personally really like, but it's not like that a gun -built in the year- 1911 would work better than a compatible one built in 2011. Given the choice between them i'd take the more recent version for an actual weapon.

But if the 1911 is a good 'all round' personal defense firearm is probably debatable. If you have strong hands and/or are in a position to use this gun holding it with two hands it's really good, but for shooting with one hand it may have a bit too much recoil to reliably get multiple shots on target.

It's a nice weapon for situations where you plan on using it, but probably not the best for self defense, especially for inexperiened shooters.
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Old 09-26-2016, 01:51 AM #1627
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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The 1911 design is a good one i personally really like, but it's not like that a gun -built in the year- 1911 would work better than a compatible one built in 2011. Given the choice between them i'd take the more recent version for an actual weapon.

But if the 1911 is a good 'all round' personal defense firearm is probably debatable. If you have strong hands and/or are in a position to use this gun holding it with two hands it's really good, but for shooting with one hand it may have a bit too much recoil to reliably get multiple shots on target.

It's a nice weapon for situations where you plan on using it, but probably not the best for self defense, especially for inexperiened shooters.
New guns need a break in period of 100-500 rounds before they can be considered reliable.

Quality Guns are like Quality cars. They get better with age. That's why they hold their value.

Firearm technology has not changed much in 100 years.

Try to find a modern firearm design that isn't based off of operating principles that are 100 years old.

Just finding a new gun that isn't a pattern copy of something from 100 years ago is difficult.

My opinion on the self defense use of handguns can be summed up as.

"A handgun is for when you can't carry a rifle."

As for the best firearm... That depends entirely on what you plan to use it for.
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Old 09-26-2016, 04:27 AM #1628
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

The 1911 has a steel slide and frame with a long contact area between the two, so they are hand fitted and do need a break in period.

But guns like my glock with the polymer lower with short steel inserts for the slide have low resistance friction and enough micro flex that they won't bind, I have owned many glocks and from right out of the box they are virtually 100% reliable.

If you get a bad bullet that's not the guns fault, but that really never happens with modern ammo. I have seen double powder charges and no charge squibs in pictures, but out of the many thousands of rounds I have fired, only rimfire 22's have ammo failures such as failed primers, and very rarely a bad center fire primer, but that's a simple easy clear, just rack the slide.

Now if you limp wrist the best semi auto pistol in the world you can get a stove pipe, where the spent case gets pinched in the ejection port, but that's because limp wrist grip negates all the recoil that operates a blow back pistol.

Rifles- piston rifles are highly reliable, but direct impingement has been worked over and refined where they are very reliable today, but I do keep my DI guns clean, my AK variants are able to run dirty and dry because of their loose tolerances.

The other big factor is heat, a tight new 1911 can seize up when hot before they are broken in unless a lot of hand fitting has been done, but again the glocks are designed to run hot and dirt and they do.

You can see how minimal the slide resistance is by the short length of the 4 steel slide inserts, and after 200,000 rounds you can start to see stress fractures at the ejection port strap and the front return spring loop, but the polymer and inserts never fail that I have seen, and at 40 cents a bullet you will have shot 80,000 dollars worth of ammo before you need to replace your 500 dollar pistol. That's not bad. I do keep a spare trigger return spring and a spare mainspring/slide return spring.

See how short the 4 slide inserts are, that's why they don't bind even when hot.





These are the first stress areas that metal fatigue, but not until around 200,000 rounds.
The polymer and inserts just never fail because micro flex in the polymer.




I'm a glock man because they just flat out work, I have and still do own many and they are extremely reliable, virtually 100% and that's from brand new right out of the box to heavily used and the range rentals often don't get cleaned at all and they keep right on shooting.

It's a 529 dollar pistol, but they work and are plenty accurate, they are still my go to pistol although I have owned some nice sigs.
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Old 09-26-2016, 05:03 AM #1629
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

My go to handgun is a FNP-45

It's another "Poly Pistol" but the controls and function are very 1911 like.
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Old 09-26-2016, 05:16 AM #1630
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Also an excellent pistol.

One thing I really like about the glock is it's striker fired and is (safe action) so there is no safety to fumble with, it's at the ready and after the 1st trigger pull a slight let off to reset has the striker already charged, so rapid follow ups are fast and light, it's a fun gun to shoot.

Of course your hammer stays back after your 1st shot and you have the option of cocking for a single action 1st shot, I just trust my glock and can make empty soda cans dance by feel without looking at the sights.
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Old 09-26-2016, 05:24 AM #1631
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

This little gem is something that has evolved over the years.

At it's core are an MGI modular upper and lower. Barrels and even magwells swap without tools. It makes for some interesting configurations.

Lately it's been the 7.5" 300 BLK config I have favored.


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Old 09-26-2016, 05:31 AM #1632
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I have some blank "multi" stamped receivers and have thought about 300 blackout for the pistol length barrel, but for a rifle I would want a different 300 loading, but I would not build a 556 pistol either because below 2400 fps the 556 loses it's explosive wounding effect and ice picks.

I like the 55gr xm-193 at 3240 fps in my 1 in 12 twist barrels but load out 62gr ss-109 for my 1 in 8 twist.
Actually I have some good reloaded nato brass for my 1 in 12's and that wolf gold is actually pretty good.

The ZQ1 556 is a 62gr penetrator and they are actually good in the 1 in 8 16 inch barrels. But I can't find it anymore, glad I bought a bunch at wallymart when it was 10 dollars for a box of 30.

-------------EDIT-------------

I just noticed that's a SBR, lol Nice sliding stock.
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Last edited by RedCowboy; 09-26-2016 at 05:37 AM.
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