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Old 08-31-2016, 12:12 AM #1585
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Obama could not get anything through Congress and with Judge Scalia on the Supreme Court Obama could not make any big changes, he did lay down some Executive orders with some big holes of opinion that can be manipulated, but now we have an empty seat on the Supreme Court bench and of the 9 seats 1 is empty and conservative/democratic is 4/4, so Hillary can appoint 2 of more Judges, and she may have a democratic senate, we are looking at a decade of change towards a heavier government hand and gun owners are going to be faced with civil disobedience of new laws, and that can mean a felony conviction and lifetime prohibition or accepting being beat back to bolt actions and revolvers, and those being restricted.

It will depend on how vocal gun owners are willing to get over how much, people raising children, some working 2 jobs may give up their AR's rather that fight it head on, gun owners in Connecticut have shocked their politicians with mas disobedience over registration, they had until the end of the year to register their previously owned AR's, AK's and the like as well as high capacity magazines or get rid of them, something like 85-90% flat our did not comply and are overnight felons from January 1st, but no major attempts have been made to enforce the new state law, only when someone has a cop in their home for something else is anything discovered.

Right now California has a Jan 1st AW ban and other States are fighting with little tyrants overreach.

I fear we are sliding towards anarchy as so much is not enforced and accountability is failing.

But if SCOTUS stacked by Hillary overturns the judgement that the 2A is an individual right them much federal regulation could and will come, how much and how fast will depend on how willing people are to get in the road and demand the decades of freedom we have known not be erased.
By get in the road I mean protest, NO LOOTING, NO DESTROYING, but many will have that banned black rifle loaded and shouldered, and should the protesters be slaughtered there will likely be some self defense that takes place, police and military may break rank and.....Look, the 2A is near and dear to many American hearts, men come back from duty, home from war and they are not going to lay down easily, but we will lose more and more with each passing year until the balance of power is changed again, if it ever is, I say that because with a nuclear Iran, North Korea and coming middle East I have some big fears, we are headed for war no matter who is elected, just because of our debt I fear Hillary will put boots on the ground to sure up our financial viability, actually we are sending troops back slowly right now.

There is a lot going on, mass civil disobedience is expected and it could get messy, some States will demand they be allowed to keep their State Constitutions intact, I am ready to move to Texas and join a succession movement that would not happen, but would get concessions.

We are already seeing some States push the boundaries against gun owners.

My wife is dead, I have no children and my life has much suffering, I am much less afraid to lay down my life than those family men/women who's prime concern is their children.

It will be a fight and we will have to give up something, we may get it back in 4 years if we don't implode as a nation before then, there are many unknowns, but new restrictions will come and we will have less legal recourse with a liberal SCOTUS and possibly Congress.

I expect a lot of unrest if we get Hillary, and if we get Trump, but the Trump unrest will die down by Christmas, with Hillary is will likely grow and who knows, maybe we can find a working balance without people having to die for what they believe in during an already troubled time.

Hillary will attack the 2A like we have not seen before and she will have the tools to do it, we will be tested and unhappy with the deal we make as it will get modified against our freedom again and again, I expect a bumpy ride, I hope we can avoid it.

I am sure I said something that will get thrown in my face, I may get accused of being threatening, but I am rambling out my thoughts as I know many people will fight the loss of the freedom we have known for a lifetime, and make no mistake, Hillary is out to take away all she can, this will not at all be like with Obama.

Just remember that what ever she starts with, that the majority will think they can live with, will only be the start, so fight to keep your ability to defend your family/home and be legally in the right should you need to do so.


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Old 08-31-2016, 12:25 AM #1586
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Also there are many things much more deadly if your after a body count and much less complicated. Simply mixing bleach and ammonia come to mind.
For a terrorist looking for maximum casualties guns aren't even a very practical solution.

For mass attacks bullets are simply very heavy. A single round in a chain of ammo for a AK47 (7.62) weighs about 20 grams. So the upper limit of people someone could kill using them is a thousand or so having to carry the ammo, the weapon, and presuming every single shot is deadly and no bullets are wasted on misses or hitting people twice.

A chemical weapon that could kill over half of poeple in a socces stadium with 100.000 seats would be more portable, and could be made less visible.

Then again, a biological weapon that kills millions can be as small as you wish, and for a suicide attacker simply in system so it cannot even be detected.



The terrorism-prevention motivation behind gun control is truly false, a complete lie. There may be a reduction in the number of accidents with guns and such, but i doubt a ban would really reduce the number of criminal casualties by much.
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Old 08-31-2016, 03:56 PM #1587
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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The terrorism-prevention motivation behind gun control is truly false, a complete lie. There may be a reduction in the number of accidents with guns and such, but i doubt a ban would really reduce the number of criminal casualties by much.
Terrorism has, and will continue to be a drop in the bucket, where death is concerned.

Australia is a decent example of failed gun control, where violence related deaths are concerned. As is England, which now has a number of campaigns to get rid of pointy knives.

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Old 09-01-2016, 01:32 AM #1588
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Oh well, that's the spiral of banning things.

Ban guns, people will go at eachother with knives. Ban knives and they use sticks. Ban sticks and they throw bricks. Ban bricks and everyone is homeless giving them a pretty good reason to to at eachother throwing turds.

Taking tools from humans make them resort to monkey tactics. Politicians should be aware that monkeys kill their physically weakened leaders at any chance to gain dominance.
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:57 AM #1589
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Ahh, but these politicians surround themselves with monkeys they permit to have big sticks. The simple final solution would seem to be to get rid of politicians then. Unfortunately that good intention definitely leads to hell.
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:43 AM #1590
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

In some cases this is accomplished. Coup d'etats are not unheard off, often carries out by the army but sometimes by the people as well.

The idea that a police force could control a population is not realistic. Here we have about 50.000 policemen on a population of 17 million. Of those policemen only 16.000 or so are on active duty on the streets, the rest work in offices.

In case the population would want to battle the state they'd be outnumbered by a huge factor, and there is a realistic chance a significant portion of police would not even go out and shoot people if ordered.

There are also about 60.000 serving in the army, but they would be unlikely to take any violent action against their own civilians. Practially it's more common for the army to take the peoples side in a widely supported coup, easilt neutralizing any state-loyal police if required given far superior firepower.

I'm not sure about the US situation, but if it came to a point of a coup supported by the majority of the population i doubt the army would fire on their own citizens to prevent it when ordered to do so. World war 2 has thought that questioning orders is sometimes the right thing to do.
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Old 09-02-2016, 05:23 PM #1591
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

In the US, it's roughly 1:375, Netherlands it's 1:305. In terms of military, it is conceivable that the US could field a million or so troops too.

With regards to cops, due to the war on drugs, the general fall in crime since the 90's, overcriminalization, and case after case of cops literally getting away with murder, being highly publicized, IMO, now, there is quite a bit of us vs them atmosphere, between even local cops, and the citizens they "protect". Not to mention incarceration rates, 60-80% are entirely drug related, and most of those non violent... in many areas if ordered to do so I expect cops would fire on people. Wouldn't have taken much for things to escalate in Ferguson for example.

With regards to military, yes, some would question orders, but most probably would not. I expect an effort would also be made to not put soldiers into the same area they are from, and they would be told they are acting for the greater good. While soldiers in germany are now taught to question orders, soldiers in the US are taught to obey orders, and respect the chain of command.
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:12 AM #1592
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I guess the US war on drugs has led to a strange stance between the people and the police. Here there is little of that, possession of drugs of personal use is not usually prosecuted and using drugs is not even illegal (they are no longer posessions as such after ingesting/smoking/shooting up).

As far as police violence goes police here will not shoot to kill a suspect unless there is immediate danger to others. If a suspect is just running away from a crime without endangering others police are not to shoot them unless the shot is not fatal. This often works out for the best, though sometimes shooting them seems to be better option in case of violent offenders.

As for the military: my father was an airforce officer during the cold war and a bit beyond that. One of his tasks was to monitor and evaluate 'things' coming from the USSR towards europe, attempting to assert what they were by (primary) radar data.

Nowadays it seems a bit unthinkable, but back then it was a real task telling apart supersonic fighter planes from icmb's.

If the cold war had continued for a decade or two more i would have considered working for the army, but luckily it never really came to that.
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:52 AM #1593
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
In the US, it's roughly 1:375, Netherlands it's 1:305. In terms of military, it is conceivable that the US could field a million or so troops too.

With regards to cops, due to the war on drugs, the general fall in crime since the 90's, overcriminalization, and case after case of cops literally getting away with murder, being highly publicized, IMO, now, there is quite a bit of us vs them atmosphere, between even local cops, and the citizens they "protect". Not to mention incarceration rates, 60-80% are entirely drug related, and most of those non violent... in many areas if ordered to do so I expect cops would fire on people. Wouldn't have taken much for things to escalate in Ferguson for example.

With regards to military, yes, some would question orders, but most probably would not. I expect an effort would also be made to not put soldiers into the same area they are from, and they would be told they are acting for the greater good. While soldiers in germany are now taught to question orders, soldiers in the US are taught to obey orders, and respect the chain of command.
What are we talking about here? Our military being ordered by Hillary to go door to door and disarm the public?
That would never work, it would start the revolution to end our current government though.
Remember soldiers return home to live as citizens among their families and they know what is going on, this kind of thing could happen in the future when we have a hired live in Chinese army, but with a citizen army, no way, it might start but it would stop before it got very far and the backlash would be tremendous.

------edit------

My father was in the National Guard during the race riots in the 1960's, after a few weeks the soldiers were waning to go home
after calming the riots down, they were camping in the football stadium and the big shots in government wanted to keep up the police action, the troops were starting to riot, the article in the paper was ( Who quells the Guard? )
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:00 AM #1594
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Nukes for Iran, sure why not, but gun powder components for citizens, well they keep trying.

Just the fact this was suddenly an issue at all after all these years is disturbing, my god look at all these cars full of gasoline and battery acid.....what garbage.

How about an air/butane gun like the paslode cordless nail guns? That could be a fun build.

Here's an article:

https://thearmsguide.com/9466/wetted-nitrocellulose/
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:26 AM #1595
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

If they want to significantly reduce the number of guns they will have to take them from people i suppose.

Banning the sales won't make a dent quickly as guns and ammo can usually be stored for decades and still work after that.

Since there currently more guns than people in the US, it would take a very long time for a sales ban to make a difference in possesion, especially with low population growth.
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Old 09-05-2016, 02:17 AM #1596
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

I would wager that there will be some resistance against the "Take them" method. It could be the single issue that drives a much bigger change, I mean, you can't train people and send them across the globe to kill people for God and Country, then expect them to come home and allow their property to be stolen on the orders of a criminal tyrant who never should have even been allowed to run in the first place, the impact of those emails will last far beyond the election if " Take them " is used as an option because they can take my life but not my liberty, I'm keeping that until I drop.

When our leaders don't obey the law yet they make new laws to take away our liberty, it's time to remember who works for who, long past time, and this could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

The liberals won't take a hand in anything, just sit on the sidelines and talk, but " Take them " sounds like the use of force, and that's going to create a problem because they are not stepping on just a few ranchers in Nevada, or a single farm of dissidents, we are talking about tens of millions of people who have already been pushed around more than they like, who are right now deciding they will not comply with unjust infringements.

BTW, I was invited to join a militia from an acquaintance at Walmart last week, it seems these groups are growing. I did not join as I do not want to be on call to answer the bell, but that can change if " Take them " becomes more than a concept.

I expect we will hear about outspoken patriots being jailed as inciters, know that the 1st amendment is just as important as the 2nd, actually the 1st amendment is the most important and everyone must defend it or freedom will die, I am not being dramatic, without our freedom of speech we are doomed to inevitable bondage.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ntrol/1964411/

https://www.publicintegrity.org/2014...ps-grow-number
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:37 AM #1597
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Forcing people hand over things to the government is problematic. The US did it only once before, in 1934 with gold, and that didn't work all that well either. Considerig gold isn't all that useful for shooting the one collecting it and guns are i predict a bit of a problem there.

Freedom of speech is usually curtailed slowly on a sliding scope, making something that was once considered racist acceptable, or the other way around.

We see this in europe often enough where you have to be quite careful how you word things to stay on the safe side of the law. Something like 'throw all migrants back to where they came from' would be legal (unless you intend to throw them physically resulting in injury). 'Throw all migrants back into the ocean' would probably not be legal as it entices people to effectively drown them (not tested in court so far).
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Old 09-06-2016, 06:49 AM #1598
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

My chiropractor is a good guy, he is from France and he tells me that he sees America going down the same path Europe has, he tells me that it's not good as people lose freedom and see more and more government intrusion into their daily life, it makes him very sad.

People don't realize how much freedom they have lost as it happens slowly, it's like watching LaVoy Finnicum in his videos taking down government cameras out in the wide open mid west, saying we have the right to our privacy, but people living in the cities have long since forgotten that and accept that we are watched.

I was talking to an African American woman who works at Walmart a while back, there was a 3 boxes a day limit on ammo so everyone could get some as it came in during high demand and lower supply.
I told her I was in late the other night and the sporting dept. had closed, and asked if I could get the 3 from yesterday and 3 from today and she said - Oh NO, that's against the law. I explained it was ok that I was just playing with her, but that it was just a store policy and not a law, she asked are you sure?
I said YES, remember that Obama could not even get a vote on his last gun grab after a tragedy that he was exploiting....she thought and said - Oh Yes, we talked for a while and found that we agreed on many things and that much going on was not as it was being portrayed.

The thing that stuck with me was how this older woman was ready to really believe that the government on a moments notice could dictate to us what we could buy in what quantity per day.
Not food or water rationing but a non critical sporting item.
People get conditioned and forget from where we came and who we are supposed to be, wearing a seatbelt, smoking some grass, what size soda we can buy....this is far beyond the scope of what WE gave our government the authority to do.
Because this is our country and we hold the true power, it is under our authority entrusted to them that laws we vore on are enforced.

But now alphabet agencies make regulations on a whim that carry the weight of law, this is not justice, this is not voted on by the people it effects with local recourse.
The Bureau of Land Management arming up and pushing people around in a local area based of Federal alphabet rulings that are not voted on is the same as taxation without representation.

States have been allowed to interpret the 2A and make further regulations, and each State has a State Constitution, but lately it seems everyone in power wants to just do as they wish until challenged, and if local reps don't honor their oath to uphold the Constitution then this dictated BS stands, we are descending into anarchy, mass civil disobedience is already happening, this is not how a united nation of States is supposed to behave, we have had 8 years without an effective leader to unify us, we have been divided and compromised, our allies have been shat on and our enemies empowered....150 Billion to Iran and a path to the bomb....it's like I am asleep and dreaming in the twilight zone, and these dictating treasonous violators of oath want to take what belongs to me, that I have owner legally, peacefully for decades, my home security, my rifle will not stop a tank, it can not destroy a city, it's not a nuclear bomb, just what are these violators of oath up to?
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Old 09-07-2016, 12:32 AM #1599
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

Mistaking a corporate regulation for a legal one is understandabe, sometimes people don't really know which one it is. Walmart could limit the amount per customer per day to avoid running out of stock dissapointing other customers.

Here discount items are, for example, often limited to some amount per customer. This was introduced because of competing supermarkets just buying out the whole stock if someting was on a big discount only to sell it at normal price themselves nextdoor (interestingly this started with cases of beer).

As for that nuclear bomb: the US has a very funny policy on those. Some items required to build one (not the fissile material, but others) are export restricted, meaning you cannot sell them overseas through ebay or something, but you can sell them to the american public just fine.

This is a pretty limited list, but included odd things like precision timing FET's that are/were essential to constructing the explosive lens design for a plutonium weapon. I guess that's mostly moot today since those things are made in china anyway.

Afaik there still are some export restrictions though, including for ruby laser rods (used in targeting systems on tanks etc) and advanced night vision equipment.
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Old 09-07-2016, 04:54 PM #1600
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Default Re: Gun Discussion

There are still quite a few import restrictions on products. Usually these kinds of products, at least the ones I've worked with, are all focused around law enforcement, and military purposes. For example, appearances to the contrary, US borders while not enforced throughout, are actually VERY heavily monitored with all kinds of different sensors, and this technology is both improving year to year, and restricted to only certain types of buyers.
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