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Old 03-31-2011, 03:54 PM #1649
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

I was watching this documentary about solar power in Mexico. The system they had was flawless, and saved the county billions. Then they said the US could use it too. I thought hell, I wonder how many thousands of units it would take to power the US. The figure was ~260. Only 260 to power the whole country with clean cheap energy. WTF!! Why cant other countries use this? I understand capitalism keeps it out of the US, but why dont these other countries use it, and stop playing with dangerous materials to power their country?


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Old 03-31-2011, 04:29 PM #1650
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

Same as with oil instead of electric powered, TJ. Powerful people, owning incredible amounts of money, they'd rather hire private army to hunt competition down, then letting go of such power and fortune.

You guys know what's efficiency of a gas engine in your average car? -> 30%

If you produce 50kW of thrust power, you're getting 25kW of heat. Twenty-fukkin'-five kilowatts of heat.

Just the other day there was documentary about some people here locally ordering parts online and assembled their own electric powered car. They constructed their own engine, and placed it inside old BMW M5 (I think) chassis.

They raced on camera. Their electric powered car outran another BMW, some very recent and powerful model with like 600 Horsepower or something.

Electric power is superior to gas in every imaginable aspect. Why is it not implemented? Go look up prices of gas. Then wrap your head around a number of dolla's flowing through one single gas station. Say you leave $50 for gas one day. Another 50 people go through that one gas station. How many gas stations are in one small state in US?

It's so unfair that people aren't even paying attention. They just go with it.

And those powerful people know it.



P.S. Fun fact- the very first car to be designed by Henry Ford was to be electric powered. Fuel companies ... persuaded him to change the design.

EDIT- On-topic, nuclear energy. Same thing, inferior to every other method od getting electric power in all aspects, not to mention the most single dangerous one. It runs on fuel that's rarest on this planet, and is most dangerous on this planet, and the method is most complicated. On the planet.

I was kind of surprised when I was reading some encyclopedia as a kid and found out what it was all about. Primary focus of all documentaries is how these atoms break away, neutrons hitting other atoms, breaking them too. Nuclear fission, creating incredible heat, power. I knew all that, and I dug around to see the whole picture. I could not believe what that heat was actually used for. Heating water. Water gets heated, steam comes out under pressure to run a damned turbine. I kind of always figured that all that nuclear energy released gets stored into some sort of capacitors and released... or something. But no. It's that plain stupid.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:04 PM #1651
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Wink Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

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Originally Posted by Tech_Junkie View Post
..... I understand capitalism keeps it out of the US, but why dont these other countries use it, and stop playing with dangerous materials to power their country?
Same here, and probably for all the rest of the world where capitalists exists
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:09 PM #1652
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

Everywhere except Mexico, LOL. Who would have though Mexicans would lead the world in cheap clean energy. Kind of ironic.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:38 PM #1653
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
You guys know what's efficiency of a gas engine in your average car? -> 30%

If you produce 50kW of thrust power, you're getting 25kW of heat. Twenty-fukkin'-five kilowatts of heat.
I think you have that backwards. 25kW of thrust is 50kW of heat. 25kW of thrust is only ~35HP, too

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I was watching this documentary about solar power in Mexico. The system they had was flawless, and saved the county billions.
How much did it cost to build? How long do the panels last? How much land does it take? What if I want to use electricity at night?

The energy consumption of the US in 2005 was 29PWh.

Based on the very generous assumptions: The sun shines for 10 hours a day every day, and the storage to use the energy at night is 100% efficient. that means 29*10^15/365/10/260=30GW per plant if you only needed 260 of them. The largest one in the world is only 340MW.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:40 PM #1654
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

No clue, just reporting what I saw. Like I said, I thought it would into the thousands.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:52 PM #1655
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
I think you have that backwards. 25kW of thrust is 50kW of heat. 25kW of thrust is only ~35HP, too
Yeah, cr*p, I did. Thanks man. Lack of coffeine... you know.

My car is rated 35 horsepower, so what? It's good for me.

I'm just comparing to something people can relate to. No need to compare with 1000kW of thrust.

Also, was venting off.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:40 PM #1656
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

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Originally Posted by Tech_Junkie View Post
No clue, just reporting what I saw. Like I said, I thought it would into the thousands.
Got a link for this system?

I'm willing to bet, sight unseen there is some simple reason we're not using it, or some large fundamental omission in terms of cost or efficiency as to why it's not as simple as it initially seems.

For instance, the construction energy cost of solar is often huge, gigantic silicon furnaces etc. or other costs. I'm really hoping for a breakthrough, but most cells today take 25 years (with tax subsidies included) to regain their construction/purchase cost.

At which time you've got about 99% odds of hail/tornado/storms passing through to destroy them. Really sucks if it's year 1.

And if I'm wrong.. I want to know how this Mexican solar power system works, because I'll just implement it my self.

We definitely ought to keep pounding on fusion, we'll get there someday.

Darn shame what's happening with Fission in Japan though. More people will die from economic disruption resource and infrastructure privation from a LACK of nuclear power, than ever will in all the world's nuclear accidents. Chernobyl included.

Add to that all the deaths from coal mining, and that coal power has released many more times the radiation into the atmosphere than all the commercial nuclear activity in the history of the world, it's just tragic.

Worse, is that there's 4th and 5th generation reactor designs that are completely 'walk away safe" as in everyone can just abandon their posts, no matter what the state of the controls or support systems is. In fact, overheating actually slows the fission down. But they'll never come to market now.
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Old 03-31-2011, 08:13 PM #1657
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

OK guys, a last and after the thread is resumed.
This is, I think we consume far too much energy simply.
I built a bioclimatic House and I pay only 150 per year in electricity and 80 for heating with wood (2 m3).
Temperature 20 in my home and I'm not stingy in energies for all my gadgets (lasers, flashlight and computers)

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 03-31-2011, 08:17 PM #1658
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

^Like all the other proponents of "cheap energy," you tell us the maintenance costs, but not the initial investment or the return on investment.
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Old 03-31-2011, 08:41 PM #1659
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
^Like all the other proponents of "cheap energy,"
I am not a proponents of "cheap energy", on the contrary I would like energy will be more expensive still.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
you tell us the maintenance costs, but not the initial investment
cost: materials and field 150 000 € (Home: 130 m living space and field: 4000 m)
maintenance: nothing special

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
the return on investment.
I don't understand. otherwise I feel good
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:04 PM #1660
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
P.S. Fun fact- the very first car to be designed by Henry Ford was to be electric powered. Fuel companies ... persuaded him to change the design.
I think it was Volkswagen who also designed an electric van, but like with Ford, and later companies, until recently, electric vehicles haven't really been practical. The VW van was in the sixties or seventies, the seats were full of batteries, in that the whole van was pretty much a battery system and whatnot, and it still was horrible in terms of distance per charge.

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I was kind of surprised when I was reading some encyclopedia as a kid and found out what it was all about. Primary focus of all documentaries is how these atoms break away, neutrons hitting other atoms, breaking them too. Nuclear fission, creating incredible heat, power. I knew all that, and I dug around to see the whole picture. I could not believe what that heat was actually used for. Heating water. Water gets heated, steam comes out under pressure to run a damned turbine. I kind of always figured that all that nuclear energy released gets stored into some sort of capacitors and released... or something. But no. It's that plain stupid.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. How is it stupid? It's the same principle (sans nuclear reactor) that hydro-electric dams work off of, water spins a turbine to generate power. There are only so many rivers to dam, and nuclear reactors can be built anywhere there's enough space, and they create power through a proven concept. True there are risks involved with nuclear power, but is anything ever 100% for certain?
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:06 PM #1661
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

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Originally Posted by AJ_Dual View Post
Got a link for this system?

I'm willing to bet, sight unseen there is some simple reason we're not using it,
in my experience we don't use "alternative" means for power generation because the rich people of america don't want wind turbines on their horizons and they don't wand mechanical devices of their coasts LoL.

did you know the first gas engine ever produced ran on ethanol? where the fuck did we go wrong?
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:22 PM #1662
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

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I'm going to have to disagree with you there. How is it stupid? It's the same principle (sans nuclear reactor) that hydro-electric dams work off of, water spins a turbine to generate power. There are only so many rivers to dam, and nuclear reactors can be built anywhere there's enough space, and they create power through a proven concept. True there are risks involved with nuclear power, but is anything ever 100% for certain?
I am under the impression that nuclear energy is by far the most ineffective and dangerous way of getting electricity.

There are ways, there is always a better way - just that nobody was busy figuring it out, since they were all busy counting their money.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:02 AM #1663
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
I am under the impression that nuclear energy is by far the most ineffective and dangerous way of getting electricity.

There are ways, there is always a better way - just that nobody was busy figuring it out, since they were all busy counting their money.
Sorry Your Wrong, Ineffective>?? Oil rigs are just as dangerous, you know how long lasting the effects and far reaching are on that? for nuclear power disaster they just bann the area from people and people who got to much to close suffer

your 2ed paragraph I agree with tho....


EDIT: LOL You saying Nuclear Energy is "Ineffective", Is a Fail....
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Last edited by Krogith; 04-01-2011 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:56 AM #1664
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Default Re: FAIL THREAD!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
I am under the impression that nuclear energy is by far the most ineffective and dangerous way of getting electricity.
Its effectivity is somewhat beyond doubt, but lets just consider the safely record: Far more people have died in the fossil fuels industry than in the nuclear industry, even if you compare the per-GWh numbers.

The sole difference is that nuclear accidents kill many people at once, but are few and far between. The fossil fuel industry has a very regular stream of casualties (like trapped miners, poeple burning to death or drowning on oil rights etc), but thats not big news since nobody in the public feels to be at risk.
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