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Old 02-06-2017, 11:01 PM #241
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Exclamation Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
Feels like a fishing trip...
What does it matter what I think. I'm a single Canadian individual
that has no more power than you. I believe that the Legal Authorities
in Canada are doing their jobs. I believe that the Canadian Justice
system is working... I'm not worried about "group extremism" as a
result of one incident..... And on top of all that...
I'm not paranoid about one incident in Quebec.

Jerry
Just trying open dialogue Jerry. Seeing we are discussing a very polarizing topic here in a public forum maybe it would be a way articulating ones views. That's all. Not fishing, just asking... you have your own perspective. That's democracy
I'm pretty sure you know my opinion as I am coming at the happenings over the last week from a perspective of someone who is assisting new refugees (esp. Syrians, Afghans, Libyans... etc) and as an educator who has lived abroad longer than living in Canada. Japan and Korea.


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Old 02-07-2017, 04:38 PM #242
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
I see a single person responsible for that act of violence.
I don't see any "group extremism".
Both exist.

There are, in rare situations, individual people that want to go out and inflict a maximum number of casualties with it for no religious motivation at all.

There is also organized terrorism, in which case the person would often leave a statement that the act was commited in the name of some organisation like ISIL.

One great benefit is that these people are often incapable idiots so the actual death toll is relatively small. Killing a dozen people is a real problem, but if they were serious about it they'd kill people by the thousands per suicide attack.

Gladly they keep to blunt means like bombs and guns for now. As long as it is that way things are manageable. Then again if they use more advanced weapons it could be very problematic. We do things like limit the amount of liquid carried in a container on an airplane to 100 ml.

In reality, spreading only a tiny amount of biological agents (as in a millilitre) could cause death tolls up to the billions if chosen carefully. I guess the good thing is people are fighting dumb terrorists for now, not educated scientists.
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:39 PM #243
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

I don't know where it started in the U.S. that people start to assume it is a given our country will just accept anyone from other countries which have problems, when did that start and guess who pays for it? How about these folk who cry to let some of these folk in adopt them, have them come and live with them until they can support themselves. That is what they are asking of all of us, if they want it, they should pay for it.

My wife had to do a lot of paperwork and three interviews, three doctors visits and thousands of dollars in fees so she could get a green card. I have no sympathy for illegals who come in and think they can be forgiven for forcing their way into the system as a squatter, or these folk from those counties who want a free pass. Hell, either let every fricken one in without all of this paper work and cost, or no one without it, but not both ways. It isn't fair to those of us who have to work our arses off to get a visa for a loved one. That said, I do think it is wise to vet people, but in reality, for many of these displaced individuals that isn't a good filter, not really, they are from foreign countries which speak different languages and have different legal systems, how much can we really turn up on them anyway?
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:36 PM #244
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Lightbulb Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I don't know where it started in the U.S. that people start to assume it is a given our country will just accept anyone from other countries which have problems, when did that start and guess who pays for it? How about these folk who cry to let some of these folk in adopt them, have them come and live with them until they can support themselves. That is what they are asking of all of us, if they want it, they should pay for it.

My wife had to do a lot of paperwork and three interviews, three doctors visits and thousands of dollars in fees so she could get a green card. I have no sympathy for illegals who come in and think they can be forgiven for forcing their way into the system as a squatter, or these folk from those counties who want a free pass. Hell, either let every fricken one in without all of this paper work and cost, or no one without it, but not both ways. It isn't fair to those of us who have to work our arses off to get a visa for a loved one. That said, I do think it is wise to vet people, but in reality, for many of these displaced individuals that isn't a good filter, not really, they are from foreign countries which speak different languages and have different legal systems, how much can we really turn up on them anyway?
Totally agree, Alaskan.

Same goes for Canada. We are accepting Syrians only after (40-60 months on average) ~3-5 years of them being screened in Lebanon and Turkey while in refugee camps by immigration Canada officials overseas. They must have family and be educated. Most of the refugees here have been upper tier workers. Either lawyers, Doctors, bankers or skilled trades... nobody I have met yet falls under the unskilled labour category. immigration to Canada is based on a points system. (Points scored for education, language, background, age.) etc... I'd imagine it would be similar for the US?

My wife and I have been through the immigration nightmare here in Canada as that required a massive amount of paperwork (tens of Thousands of dollars later) and terrible communication with Ottawa. Ottawa changed the immigration process 3x while we were in mid stride. Crazy!
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:07 PM #245
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I don't know where it started in the U.S. that people start to assume it is a given our country will just accept anyone from other countries which have problems, when did that start and guess who pays for it? How about these folk who cry to let some of these folk in adopt them, have them come and live with them until they can support themselves. That is what they are asking of all of us, if they want it, they should pay for it.

My wife had to do a lot of paperwork and three interviews, three doctors visits and thousands of dollars in fees so she could get a green card. I have no sympathy for illegals who come in and think they can be forgiven for forcing their way into the system as a squatter, or these folk from those counties who want a free pass. Hell, either let every fricken one in without all of this paper work and cost, or no one without it, but not both ways. It isn't fair to those of us who have to work our arses off to get a visa for a loved one. That said, I do think it is wise to vet people, but in reality, for many of these displaced individuals that isn't a good filter, not really, they are from foreign countries which speak different languages and have different legal systems, how much can we really turn up on them anyway?

Agreed, as an immigrant myself. If I had to go through the process other immigrants should too. Unless the rules change, then fair enough.
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:18 PM #246
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

The flood of illegal invaders crossing our southern boarder must stop, they should not be allowed drivers licenses or be allowed to vote while they are illegal invaders, the concept is insane yet it's been going on for years.
Citizens have Constitutional rights, illegal invaders do not.
Thank God for President Donald Trump, in time America will prevail, but dam what a mess has been allowed and even encouraged.
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:42 PM #247
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

Trump is an absolute buffoon sometimes.



Trump threatens to destroy lawmaker opposed to police civil forfieture

Just keeps getting better with this madman as POTUS. He continues to threaten to 'destroy the careers' of his enemies.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-...193347486.html
President Donald Trump offered to inflict political damage on lawmakers who try to limit civil asset forfeiture, making a joke about a practice that has come under serious criticism in recent years from Democrats and libertarian-minded Republicans.

During a meeting at the White House with county sheriffs, Trump said he would “destroy” the career of a Texas state legislator who had proposed restrictions on seizures of property belonging to suspected criminals.

More from Bloomberg.com: One NATO Member Thinks Trump Is Right

“Do you want to give his name?” Trump asked Rockwall County, Texas, Sheriff Harold Eavenson after he complained about the legislator. “We’ll destroy his career.”

The comment prompted laughter from participants in the meeting.
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:08 AM #248
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Lightbulb Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
The flood of illegal invaders crossing our southern boarder must stop, they should not be allowed drivers licenses or be allowed to vote while they are illegal invaders, the concept is insane yet it's been going on for years.
Citizens have Constitutional rights, illegal invaders do not.
Thank God for President Donald Trump, in time America will prevail, but dam what a mess has been allowed and even encouraged.


Your description sounds a bit like the below picture. Illegal immigrants.. I think that is what you were describing. Illegal Mexican migrants? If you come illegally then you should be sent back. I 100% agree ( one should always encourage legal immigration) . BUT

I'd also just mention that Trump will have to fight against 2 parts of your constitution to force his immigration ban. If those are changed that could potentially mean that any US citizen or non-citizen could be detained without legal representation. You're up for that? Again, be very careful here... treading into very dangerous territory. Going back to what initiated our passionate discussion on the "so called muslim ban" Those who were detained during the ban were not illegal, they were largely dual citizens and or had work and study visas many of them were working in your hospitals, IT Tech sectors and banking.

Below is the sticking point and the main reason that Trumps immigration ban was defeated. It's written in your constitution.

Quote:
The Fifth and Fourteenth
Amendment due process and equal protection guarantees
extend to all "persons." The rights attaching to criminal trials,
including the right to a public trial, a trial by jury, the assistance
of a lawyer, and the right to confront adverse witnesses, all apply
to "the accused." And both the First Amendment's protections
of political and religious freedoms and the Fourth Amendment's
protection of privacy and liberty apply to "the people."

The fact that the Framers chose to limit to citizens only the
rights to vote and to run for federal office is one indication that
they did not intend other constitutional rights to be so limited.
Accordingly, the Supreme Court has squarely stated that neither
the First Amendment nor the Fifth Amendment "acknowledges
any distinction between citizens and resident aliens."13


Also Trump will have to fight the UN on a bill signed by the US in 1985.
The International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights.

Quote:
The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
similarly extends its protections generally to noncitizens; the
Human Rights Committee's authoritative commentary provides
that "in general, the rights set forth in the Covenant apply to
everyone ... and irrespective of his or her nationality or statelessness.
"23 These principles are also reflected in the Declaration
on the Human Rights of Individuals Who are Not Nationals of
the Country in which They Live, adopted by the U.N. General
Assembly in 1985. It expressly guarantees to non-nationals,
among other rights, the right to life, the right not to be subjected
to arbitrary arrest or torture, due process, equality before the
courts, and the freedoms of thought, opinion, conscience, religion,
and expression.24 The only civil and political rights that international
law does not generally guarantee on equal terms to
citizens and non-nationals are the right to vote, the right to run
for elective office, and the rights of entry and abode. 25

Just for a little comic relief. I thought I'd share Germany's response to America first speech.





I also thought I'd share 2 interesting videos by Arirang TV (English S.Korean media)
about Islam that country. I have personally visited the mosque in Itaewon several times
to meet friends there or go to the large import market. S.Korea has a sizable islamic population that is increasing quickly
including many Afghan/Xinxiang Uyghurs. (Chinese muslims)
Please see how a hyper-Nationalistic country such as S.Korea reports on Islam.
The reporting is surprisingly objective rather than subjective ( as we often see in the west).
One would think that Muslims in S.Korea would face significant confrontation as they don't fit into S.Korean cultural norms. Koreans eat a massive amount of Pork and
have livers made of steel (esp. males). They can outdrink anyone including the Irish. - Trust me I am an expert on this subject as having lived there for almost 7 years.
Koreans for the most part drink when they are stressed or very happy. Drinking with your co-workers is almost a ritual after work

Muslim Koreans can't participate in Jaesa ( Korean ancestral worship), Chuseok (First Autumn moon), or Seollal (lunar new year). They can't obviously eat pork, or dog meatwhich not eaten as much anymore, or drink
Alcohol.
So, how do these difference impact the lives of Korean Muslims?




Interviewing Muslims by S.Korean media.
The ending of the video by (~8:14) HeeChul is just as important as the message from the interviewees about Islam.
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:33 PM #249
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I don't know where it started in the U.S. that people start to assume it is a given our country will just accept anyone from other countries which have problems, when did that start and guess who pays for it? How about these folk who cry to let some of these folk in adopt them, have them come and live with them until they can support themselves. That is what they are asking of all of us, if they want it, they should pay for it.

My wife had to do a lot of paperwork and three interviews, three doctors visits and thousands of dollars in fees so she could get a green card. I have no sympathy for illegals who come in and think they can be forgiven for forcing their way into the system as a squatter, or these folk from those counties who want a free pass. Hell, either let every fricken one in without all of this paper work and cost, or no one without it, but not both ways. It isn't fair to those of us who have to work our arses off to get a visa for a loved one. That said, I do think it is wise to vet people, but in reality, for many of these displaced individuals that isn't a good filter, not really, they are from foreign countries which speak different languages and have different legal systems, how much can we really turn up on them anyway?
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Speaking as both a history major, amateur historian, and a naturalized citizen who originally came here seeking political asylum...

The United States has, and continues to have one of the most lenient immigrant acceptance systems in the world. That said, acceptance was NEVER guaranteed unconditionally. Even during peak periods of european and other migration of people to the US, some were turned away.

It is absolutely not fair to the people that have gone through the process, the interviews, the green card lottery even, and all the costs associated, to just grant amnesty to those who came here illegally.

That said, life isn't fair, and and consideration needs to be given to how to deal with the people already here. To just literally kick out everyone is also not fair or practical.

A path to amnesty that allows people to become legal residents, and maybe, maybe, down the line citizens, makes more sense. Allowing people who are generally law abiding, and only committed crimes as they related to their illegal status, to become contributing tax payers would be great.

Those who have committed other crimes, if they can be deported, should be deported, with the exception of course sending people back to countries where they are basically guaranteed to face persecution, torture, and death.

To begin this process, to continue it really, borders do need to be secured. Visa overstays also need to be addressed, because that is how many many people end up staying here.

Edit: Also while immigration issues keep being pushed to front by mass media, they are a bad distraction from the fact that MANY MANY jobs will disappear within the next 2 decades due to automation. Cab drivers, guys earning a little side money driving for uber, truck drivers. That will be the first massive wave of the next industrialization, and it will have drastic impact.

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Old 02-09-2017, 05:16 PM #250
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

Many jobs will be automated away, regardless who fills them at the moment.

This is, however, a process that has been going on for over a century with technology replacing workers in all kinds of fields.

Some of these jobs might be mostly filled by migrants (legal or not) currently, but others will be mostly filled by born and raised citizens.

The most important thing about that is to adapt education for future roles. Simple jobs are the easiest to automate, but the definition of simple is getting broader quickly. Something like driving a cab required a human driver 10 years ago, but nowadays autonomous cars are starting to come along, and in another 10 years they might be very common.

This could be problematic for the agenda of bringing jobs back to america - with things like automated road-building systems already available.
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:26 PM #251
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

While it is true that the industrial revolution and automation have been making manual labor jobs continuously dissappear, my fear, which I hope is unfounded paranoia, is that in the not so distant future a combination of increased processing power, the world being cataloged, and quantified, and advances in robotics will cause the gradual loss of jobs to become far more extreme.

Lot's of people are "gaga" over amazon's Alexa for example. How many basic customer support jobs will even a semi functional AI eliminate overnight, once it's capable of passing a Turing test? All those call centers... gone. The implications of AI's being able to self program are also scary on many different levels.
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:09 PM #252
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

Yes changes are coming that will necessitate a change in our concept of freedom and self reliance, or everyone can go back to self farming but I don't see that as being viable because the economy of space needed is much less to produce on an industrial scale, and we only have a finite amount of farmable land.

Unless we look into the future and plan for it, solve the problems in advance then we almost always face contest as one nations people suffer more than the another's and as those people become aware we move towards war unless we learn to live together, but many problems must be solved and we must have the will to solve those problems that won't cooperate.

Yes tech and AI are moving forward faster than humanity, so they will become weapons.

The UAV is already killing on the battlefield, that field being anywhere and this makes me think why reinvent the wheel, why build mech ground troops at all except in support of UAV's, smaller tanks built with new super materials, the concept that bigger numbers are better than bigger units, it's coming unless we can solve some problems. Not to mention bio weapons and possibly nano machines although bio would have a big head start.

Maybe the Earth inhabited by Earthlings needs to become one, everyone's food and medical supplied by government, all our goals become common to our mutual benefit.

What do we have to overcome, 2 main things I see.

#1 GREED

#2 RELIGION.

In that order???

If one group wont stop teaching children to kill the infidels then they will not fit into the one world happy picture.

I expect war to continue until man rises from the ashes, the question is will tomorrows Earthlings remember the lessons? Will they keep the devil of human greed in check next time, I just don't see it happening without a restart as too much genetic memory is already dug in and too many people won't change...I won't lay my sword down first...will you?
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:11 PM #253
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

I agree RedCowboy, Greed and Religion has caused so many problems throughout history. Corruption is also a huge factor within humanity, but I guess that can come under greed.
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:26 PM #254
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

I have to be honest with myself, I am really a hell of a nice guy and would love to see one world of people working together, children growing up exploring the boundaries or their minds without worry of food, housing or medical.

But I know how the bastards in charge around the globe think and I must say that guaranteeing my side will win and win with the least losses is the prudent way to prepare and hopefully it won't be needed.

The world needs a strong man with clean morals, we could have done it, we Americans were so far ahead that we could have lead the world into unity, but we let greed and complacency galvanized in outright apathy ruin our chance, maybe China will prove to be the strong and the kind.......crap

Our only chance is to stop lying to ourselves, WE ARE ALL GREEDY and children taught to hate and kill infidels are a disease, we can't find a balance by willing it to be, we must face the whole truth and work for it, I watch our leaders fight like angry children, so mad they didn't get their way, it's sickening.

There is very little self sacrifice for what works by those in power, soldiers and police give more of themselves than anyone, no NOT the few bad apples, but those who are willing to die for us all, if only our leaders had that dedication.
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:37 PM #255
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

Utopia. That would be nice. You're right while we have who we have in charge of the world this vision will never happen. Everything in this world is to better someone else. Even a person with strong morals cannot change the state of affairs today. The best of humanity will come across an opposition somewhere. There is a positive and negative to everything. I would love to say that one person can change the world, but I know this is not completely true. One person can lead a group of people to change, but never can he/she do it all. There simply isn't enough people around that are even aware of the problems, let alone willing to do anything about it. We live in world of greed and ignorance unfortunately.
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Old 02-10-2017, 04:55 PM #256
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Default Re: Donald Trump Inauguration

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Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
What do we have to overcome, 2 main things I see.

#1 GREED

#2 RELIGION.

In that order???

This is a valid point. I think the order should be reversed.

Greed is something that, for most people, has it's limits. Once you live a comfortable life, with plenty of food, drink, good housing, utilities and all that many people will be content with that. They may aspire to gain more, but it's not a big priority once you are comfortable.

Religion is more complex, at least when it goes anywhere beyond personal beliefs.

I think we should give up all religion as fast as possible, but that's not a very realistic scenario. The problem with religion in the (inherit) lack of evidence. Anyone can claim to be 'right' about what would happen after death, and there is no way to prove any of it.

I'm atheist myself and have no problem accepting the concept that i will cease to exist in any form when i die, but the vast majority of people on earth have different ideas about that.

That in itself is not even a big problem, if i beleive death is the end, you think you'll go to valhalla and another thinks he'll be going to heaven or paradise, there is no reason we cannot co-exist.

The problems start when people get the idea that they need to convice others to join their believes and want to convert them to their religion, or act badly to those with different ideas.

And there is a bit of a relationship between greed and supposed afterlife as well: In some cultures there is a concept of bringing worldly posessions into the afterlife. This may make people more greedy just to secure supplies for some afterlife that may or may not come, taking them from people that actually need them to survive their life on earth as it is.
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