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Old 08-24-2007, 03:05 PM #1
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Default Continue Profit Arugment Here.....

I'm just a new member that has been lurking around reading posts for quite a while but I noted on CPF that a member has charged you with making a profit on the groupbuy. I was just wondering if you could prove him wrong by posting a receipt, since embezzling a profit would really be sour





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Old 08-24-2007, 04:17 PM #2
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

laserman - whether I make a profit or not is totally MY business - the whole point of a group buy is to provide value to other members, and that "person" who attempted to flame me lost sight of that I believe. He also claimed a ton of many other things - so believe what you like, it is irrelevant to me, and most likely others here as well !

But - if you care to risk your personal finances by putting together a group buy, be my guest, there are folks on here that can attest to the difficulty, and the risks involved in doing it. Anyways, Picrthis was banned from this forum for his ways - so it is definitely your choice to continue his ways, or to behave :-)

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Old 08-24-2007, 04:34 PM #3
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

I was wondering what happened to picturethis " :-/ :-[ "

LOL!...... But groupbuys are exactly that..... a buy presented to a whole group at once.

All the same rules apply.. the seller should get some type of profit or whats the point?

IF the profit is less than it "could" be, then there is tremendous goodwill towards the buyers, but if there is no profit at all, then the buyers are your kids!.... LOL!
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:39 PM #4
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by windstrings
I was wondering what happened to picturethis " :-/ * :-[ "

LOL!...... *But groupbuys are exactly that..... a buy presented to a whole group at once.

All the same rules apply.. the seller should get some type of profit or whats the point?

IF the profit is less than it "could" be, then there is tremendous goodwill towards the buyers, but if there is no profit at all, then the buyers are your kids!.... LOL!
Although my financials are nobody's business but my own - I can assure anyone and everyone that any profit I WOULD have made has long since disappeared do to the shipping back and forth, the refunds, etc - so I would be very wary about accusing anyone of making undue profit from a group buy situation !

Plus - for hte record, these pointer modules sell for $250 online at various places, so you are more than welcome to shop there, instead of with me at ANY time !

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Old 08-24-2007, 04:45 PM #5
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Hmm I understand, but did you make a profit or not? I think it should be in the interest of members here to know what goes on in a group buy as we are all members of the forum, and the respective LPF family. If each member were to host group buys for profits, then i'm sure someone will come up and argue that point.
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:49 PM #6
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Laserman - did you participate in this group buy ? I have answered myself plenty of times, especially to someone who has no personal interest in the buy itself - what are you about anyways ? What exactly is it that you are inferring, or what do you want, and what do you hope to prove by asking all of this ? Seriously - If I were to go to a porsche dealership, and ask them their profit margin, and then argue with them that they are ripping people off, what would the point be, as I do not own a Porsche ? Evidently you have not read enough to be able to answer your own questions, so please go back, and read some, okay ? Thanks !

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Old 08-24-2007, 04:53 PM #7
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Why have you broken into a paragraph of expletives, attacking me with ignorance? I am simply asking a reasonable question. It has nothing of going into a Porsche Dealership. A group buy is known to bring values to the users of this forum, by means of getting them a discounted price. Why would we want to pay your dues as a hidden profit and not know? A Porsche Dealership is just a business, and I hope your group buys are not your own businesses, as then we would have to infer strict tax laws, and income laws as protection to the buyer and the seller as imposed on normal businesses.
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:59 PM #8
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by laserman94
Hmm I understand, but did you make a profit or not? I think it should be in the interest of members here to know what goes on in a group buy as we are all members of the forum, and the respective LPF family. *If each member were to host group buys for profits, then i'm sure someone will come up and argue that point. *
Well, I'll tell you what I do. At this point I refrain from calling things group buys for this very reason - if people don't see you losing money for helping others they get mad.

When I conduct my... whatever you want to call them... I try to factor everything in. Its not just about the unit price the seller offers, its about every bank fee, every shipping fee, every paypal fee, every RMA service cost, and perhaps the possibility you lose it all getting your shipment snagged by customs. I try to factor all those in an set a price.

Most of the time, unless we can get hundreds of participants, that price is pretty decent amount more than the unit price offered by the original seller, but if its still a good price I'll go through with the deal. And honestly? Yes, I normally factor in a very small profit. This profit amounts to perhaps a few cents per hour in my pocket when you consider the time I put in, and ignores the thousands of dollars I have invested in equipment. EVEN THEN, group buys are rarely a smooth process and you can never predict anything. Even after all those precautions I take, and the little profit I try factoring in, I normally LOSE MONEY on the deals.

Now, I keep trying them because I find it interesting and I learn a lot from it. Not to mention I get to play with some pretty cool lasers in the process. However, don't think we're here getting rich off of these group buys. My most recent deal is those IR lasers, and I don't call it a GB at all - I'll openly admit I'm making a few bucks off of every package I sell. With a lot of luck, it'll pay off the hundreds I've lost in past GBs, and who knows, if I turn it into a real business I may even be able to pay off some of the equipment I test the lasers with


(man, this is one EXPENSIVE hobby to have. I could have a pretty decent set of L series lenses if I never heard of lasers)


PS: Oh, and I'm not looking to get everyone here thinking "aww, poor SenKat" or anything. We know what we're getting into and we do it anyway. It'd just be nice to have a little more respect than when people like picrthis portray us twisted profiteers, and for-profit companies as the good guys.
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:05 PM #9
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by laserman94
Why have you broken into a paragraph of expletives, attacking me with ignorance? *I am simply asking a reasonable question. *It has nothing of going into a Porsche Dealership. *A group buy is known to bring values to the users of this forum, by means of getting them a discounted price. *Why would we want to pay your dues as a hidden profit and not know? *A Porsche Dealership is just a business, and I hope your group buys are not your own businesses, as then we would have to infer strict tax laws, and income laws as protection to the buyer and the seller as imposed on normal businesses.
Nothing I said was a personal attack, clown (until this) so - go join Picthis, in asshole heaven, or wherever he lurks now. Buh-bye.

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Old 08-24-2007, 05:05 PM #10
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

I know what you mean! I've been addicted to lasers/flashlights for quite a while. Thanks for your honest and open perspective on the group buys. I was just curious and wanted a satisfactory answer that group buy organizers were not making a fortune in profit out of their deals. I have heard some in the past making $2000+ in profit, which is more than a few cents per hour :P

Thanks again for your honest and objective response
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:10 PM #11
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Yup - I DO reserve the right (before anyone calls me out on my previous comments) to be a jerk - I have earned it.

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Old 08-24-2007, 05:13 PM #12
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Why is it that I have been banned from laserman94 when all I have done is made a general inquiry on the inner workings of group buys? If you are banning me for this, then you are hiding something. I would respect honesty as a role in the moderator, and will be asking administrators for ruling on this since you have abused your powers. Knowingly that you have been laid off in the past month (which I can empathize to), group buy profits are not an alternative. Rightfully so, I will get the revenue agency to review these transactions and launch a complaint.
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:16 PM #13
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

It is rather ironic that you have chosen not to run any more group buys on CPF because they have been accusing you of turning a profit, and now you are running group buys here.
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:34 PM #14
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by windstrings
Aseras, the element in the equation thats a bit nebulous is "common sense".....

I agree, the need for precautions go "way" up when playing around with mirrors, glass etc, but for popping balloons with a quick burst or even lighting matches or shining into the sky etc, the amount of diffuse light that enters the eyes is quite minimal and with an IR filtered laser, the intensity of the light itself will let the onlooker know when its dangerous.

Its those "mistakes" and mishaps that we have to guard for.... similar to why we wear a helmet on a motorcycle, or seatbelts in a car or why we wear shoes when walking across a field known to possibly have stickers.

There is a difference between "real fact dangers" verses "precautions" against mishaps and accidental exposure of much more than planned or calculated from stray beams.

The user has to use his common sense..... if he has none, then yes, wear glasses at all times!
common sense works to a point. Once you get close to the edges though it's really easy to go over and not realize until it's too late and you crossed the limit. Ever been to a concert and not realized it was too loud until you came out with your ears ringing? Same with lasers, plenty of times I have played and been seeing spots, even with a ~50mw greenie because I was too close. With the high power guys, > 200mw , by the time your eye registers "damn that's bright" and you look away you can already do some serious permanent damage.

The brain and the eye is very good at hiding mistakes like that until you have enough it can't compensate anymore.
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:35 PM #15
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Well, Laserman, it goes like this...

SenKat contacts a manufacturer to get bulk pricing on an item.
He advertises a certain price on this forum (whether or not it is the price he is quote is irrelevant).
He sets up avenues of payment, and makes lists of who has ordered how many units.
He collects the money, consolidates it, and buys the product.
After receiving the shipment, he tests the units, RMAs the bad ones, packages the good ones, and ships them.
He then has to deal with returns of the ones that are damaged in shipment and RMA those.

So is the price SenKat quotes on here the exact price he pays per unit? I sincerely hope not! He has to pay for shipping to him, individual packaging, shipping cost to the buyers, shipping costs for RMAs, and tax (if there is any). Since there is no way of knowing all of those costs at the beginning of a group buy, he has to estimate them and add to the cost up front. I hope to god that he puts a cushion on that number to cover unexpectedly high order volume or changes in expenses. I also hope that he DOES add something for "profit" because of all the work these things require. I put profit in quotation marks because if you factor in the value of SenKat's time, he is almost assuredly losing money on these deals.

The long and the short of it is this...if you can get a better price on anything in a group buy, THEN GO AHEAD AND BUY IT! When you order something from a store, do you go online and start bashing that company for making a profit off of your purchase? If you really want to bash somebody, go after the jewelery or furniture industries...their markups are well over 200%.
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:37 PM #16
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Default Re: Interest guage - 200mw 660nm red pointers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by laserman941
It is rather ironic that you have chosen not to run any more group buys on CPF because they have been accusing you of turning a profit, and now you are running group buys here.
I agree with this 100%. If somebody bashed me for doing all of the work to get them a better deal on something, I wouldn't do it any more either. Seriously, why does it matter to you if he makes a profit? He's doing all of the work. You still get an item for less than you can get it anywhere else. If you bite the hand that feeds you, you eventually starve.
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