Collateral Murder in Iraq.

Recently a wikileaks article was released showing american soldiers in Iraq killing many unarmed civilians, including two children and two reuters journalists. This truly disgusts me to watch.

"Oh yeah, look at all those dead bastards."
"Nice. Nice."

*Aiming at a clearly harmless vehicle with people trying to help the wounded and dead*
"Come on! Let me shoot!"

Click to expand...

They also laugh several times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

:cryyy:

Those incidents caused a great deal of fallout here in the US. It disgusts American citizens to watch.. Unfortunately war is what it is, though, and there has never been a war in which atrocities weren't committed. This is in no way defending those actions, only pointing out that in wartime things are not pleasant and horrible acts are committed on both sides.

Its nothing new both side do horrible things, we hope that we are better than that as a nation and people but when you get right down to it we are all capable of being savages.
Just with the more recent technology boom war gets seen by the world instead of soldiers.
If any of this stuff shocks you then you should protest all wars, there is never a good and just war.

Why are we even in the Iraq?

...
There are many reasons,
Money
Oil
Democracy
greed
stupidity
The list goes on but pick your favorite.

It's called "war." Stuff happens in war. Eliminate war and the problem is solved. I don't like war and/or what happens during one. However, you cannot judge an action in a war zone by what you would like to happen in your home

Who can you kill in a war zone = Enemy combatants

What is an enemy combatant in this war zone = anyone carrying a weapon and those supporting or harboring them. One form of "support" is treating and removing other enemy combatants

Were members of the group fired on carrying weapons? = Yes

Was the van aiding and supporting enemy combatants? = Yes

Were the "journalists" walking freely among the enemy combatants without any signs of force or duress? = Yes

Were the children visible in any way form the firing position? = No

Was there any reason to believe that there would be children in the van? = No

Who brought their children to the attack? = The enemy combatants

What is the definition of "murder"? = INTENTIONALLY ending the life of another human

Did the fire team intentionally kill the children? = No

What is shown is a group of enemy combatants and their support team being hit with unintended civilian deaths.

It ain't the way the police would do it at home, but it is the way it is done in a war zone.

You may not like the idea that many warriors "enjoy" their job, but many of them do. Remember, this is the result of the "all volunteer" military that the population cried for after VietNam. People who hate war rarely volunteer to go to one.

Peace,
dave

Well Said.
It makes your blood boil sometimes when you just wish the world was not as horrible as it truly was.
The feeling that this horrible world is starting to mix into our perfect oasis that we call home, is alarming.
But when you have lived in a sudo war zone for some years of your life and you watch that it makes a lot more sense than the little house bunny's watching it from their pcs.

I'm tired of hearing of another murder or death or loss of life. People never change. Suckness

The "war zone" should Never be in the city. for many reasons. It never turns out good.
The troops are there to kill the enemy, not police suspected enemies. if not.. then what do they do?
Are we fighting an actual enemy, or someone who might or might not hold the same ideology?
However much many of us dislike war/s, any killing that happens there is just part of the game.. people do crazy things when their life is on the line. Its hard to say what's right and wrong in wartime.

I think we should make war illegal..
that would fix everything Riiight?

I just don't get why we are still in iraq..
And what is this "democracy" people speak of?

Actually none of the people killed carried firearms. It was a report crew. The army guys mistaked the camera equipment for weapons, and fired without confirmation. Although I do admit the tripods looked like weapons from the heli's point of view.

If me make war illegal... hmm that sounds funny
Someone tries to invade the us but we outlawed war so what we roll over?
War is a needed part of life, if you like or not people cant use words to work things out its the next best thing.
IF no one ever was killed or shot and all died by natural causes this world would be way over populated so weather its for oil greed or democracy at least there population control going on, so some goods comes from all this.

The tripods could easily be mistaken for weapons, to an inexperienced and/or untrained crew (as they would seem to be). At 4:08 the guy's behaviour looks suspicious, since the operator can see a large-diameter tube, and a guy crouching behind cover. Whilst they were undoubtedly trigger-happy, it was reasonable for the operator to presume they were armed, and therefore also hostile. Furthermore, this is taken 3 years after the actual event, so there's quite a big difference in context too. You can take from this what you will, but is it the training (misidentifying), the crew (trigger-happiness), the commander who authorised the fire, or the government? Take from it what you will, but remember this was not an intentional massacre on the part of the gunmen. Also remember that they were expecting to see people being armed - just by being told that they are carrying cameras, you are given more information than the men there had to work on.

Grix said:

Actually none of the people killed carried firearms. It was a report crew. The army guys mistaked the camera equipment for weapons, and fired without confirmation. Although I do admit the tripods looked like weapons from the heli's point of view.

Click to expand...

You need to watch more carefully. Yes, the camera with the telephoto lens was mistaken for an RPG. However, there were AK-47's evident long before the cameraman took up, what from the ground would have been taken for, an offensive stance.

If you did not see the AK-47 before the hit or in the subsequent tracking down of the ones that fled, the scene, then you watched an edited version of the tape.

If you viewed a version of the tape that had the sections in which the weapons were clearly evident edited out, then you should be questioning your source of the tape.

Peace,
dave

It makes me sick, but it is war.

What's really sad is the guy who leaked this footage has been arrested today and will likely spend a lot of time in jail, meanwhile the trigger happy morons who killed innocent journalists and fired at children received no punishment at all.

Wired News (and Adrian Lamo) expose alleged Wikileaks "Collateral Murder" video leaker - Boing Boing