Donating to LPF

twhite828 said:

LPF gets 250,000+ hits per month. This translates into at least $1,000 of revenue per month. Donations are being collected on top of this. The most expensive plans offered by our host (that are overkill) are <$500/mo.

This leaves at least $500 of overhead ad revenue per month. Donations are being collected on top of it under the pretenses of covering the costs of the hosting. Those are clearly already covered by ad revenue.

Dave, the problem is not Avery making a living off the forum. That's great if he can do it. The problem is about donations being collected on top of already huge ad revenue, under the pretense of covering "costs."

Does no one but the few of us see a problem here?

-Trevor

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I do not see a problem there, I donate. If you have a problem with it, don't donate.

If you think that $1700 a month is "huge" revenue, you lead a very simple life.

Peace,
dave

**EDIT** How about if you look at it this way then. Donations help cover "costs" and ad revenue helps cover beer. It's all the same "pool" of cash.

daguin said:

I do not see a problem there, I donate. If you have a problem with it, don't donate.

If you think that $1700 a month is "huge" revenue, you lead a very simple life.

Peace,
dave

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If you think that $1700 a month is a small revenue from ads, you've never tried to run a site with Google AdSense. :angel:

If you see no problem with donating when possibly being misled, and are well-informed that the possibility exists, then there is no problem. I am concerned for those who are not informed, and would have a problem with it.

-Trevor

twhite828 said:

If you think that $1700 a month is a small revenue from ads, you've never tried to run a site with Google AdSense. :angel:

If you see no problem with donating when possibly being misled, and are well-informed that the possibility exists, then there is no problem. I am concerned for those who are not informed, and would have a problem with it.

-Trevor

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It may be good money for a website. My point was, it is not good money for life.

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

It may be good money for a website. My point was, it is not good money for life.

Peace,
dave

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'course it's not. Ads are there primarily to cover the cost of a site.

-Trevor

twhite828 said:

'course it's not. Ads are there primarily to cover the cost of a site.

-Trevor

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I think that our main difference lies in that you think that donations should only be solicited if the owner is losing money (and this is what you thought was happening) and I think that in this environment it is perfectly acceptable to ask for the members to help pay for the site no matter how much money is being generated.

I don't want Avery to "break even." I want him to make so much money that he continues to work his ass off for us to keep the forum up and running

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

I think that our main difference lies in that you think that donations should only be solicited if the owner is losing money (and this is what you thought was happening) and I think that in this environment it is perfectly acceptable to ask for the members to help pay for the site no matter how much money is being generated.

Peace,
dave

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From my standpoint it appears that ads* are more than enough to pay for the forum (way more than enough), and donations appear to be merely lining his pockets.

All about perspective.

-Trevor

EDIT: Whoops, ads, not donations...

twhite828 said:

From my standpoint it appears that donations are more than enough to pay for the forum (way more than enough), and donations appear to be merely lining his pockets.

All about perspective.

-Trevor

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My point is, Why is that a problem? If he is not making enough money to WANT to maintain the forum, it will slide into obscurity. Would you work your ass off just to break even? Anything over "breaking even" is "lining his pockets."

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

My point is, Why is that a problem? If he is not making enough money to WANT to maintain the forum, it will slide into obscurity. Would you work your ass off just to break even? Anything over "breaking even" is "lining his pockets."

Peace,
dave

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There's a difference between having ads allow you to pay costs and line your pockets, and having that plus a donation goal that only does the latter - under the pretense of paying for hosting costs.

-Trevor

twhite828 said:

There's a difference between having ads allow you to pay costs and line your pockets, and having that plus a donation goal that only does the latter - under the pretense of paying for hosting costs.

-Trevor

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It is all the same pool of money. ANYTHING coming into Avery's pocket is part of the pool that covers the costs AND from which any profit is taken. They are NOT separate money piles earmarked for specific purposes.

Donations help cover the cost of hosting
Donations help increase the profit
Ad revenue helps cover the cost of hosting
Ad revenue helps increase the profit

It is not one for one and something else for the other

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

It is all the same pool of money. ANYTHING coming into Avery's pocket is part of the pool that covers the costs AND from which any profit is taken. They are NOT separate money piles earmarked for specific costs.

Donations help cover the cost of hosting
Donations help increase the profit
Ad revenue helps cover the cost of hosting
Ad revenue helps increase the profit

It is not one for one and something else for the other

Peace,
dave

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Look at the OP. It asks for donations for a specific reason - covering costs. Is that not effectively earmarking? If it's not earmarking, it's certainly misleading.

-Trevor

EDIT: It's late; I'm going to bed. I guess I'll come back and see what's come of this come daylight.

twhite828 said:

Look at the OP. It asks for donations for a specific reason - covering costs. Is that not effectively earmarking? If it's not earmarking, it's certainly misleading.

-Trevor

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I agree. The more costs that can be covered by donations the more left over for beer. Asking for us to help cover costs, in no way implies that they would not already being covered in some other fashion. If it were my forum I too would want the members to cover the cost of hosting so that my work in selling ad space could stay in my pocket. It is how free enterprise works. It is how any profit could be earned. It is why Avery is willing to work to maintain the forum. He is not a non-profit agency providing an altruistic service to ease his troubled soul. This is a business.

If donations can cover costs, then profit is higher. It is NOT misleading.

It seems to continue along the same vein.

You believe that donations should only be solicited if the owner is losing money. You thought that was the case. No one told you that, but that is what you thought. Now that you have discovered that the owner is not losing money, you feel less than altruistic, because that is the only reason you were donating.

I believe it is perfectly valid to ask members to contribute to the cost of running a website, from which they derive a benefit, no matter how much money is being made. I don't donate because I think Avery is losing money. I donate because I am being provided value. This is a business, NOT a government or a non-profit service.

If you do not want to pay for the benefit derived, you do not have to. That is the beauty of the interwebz. However, trying to say that asking members to help cover the costs (even if that means the profit is higher) is misleading is not true. It is one of the ways websites generate revenue.

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

If donations can cover costs, then profit is higher. It is NOT misleading.

It seems to continue along the same vein.

You believe that donations should only be solicited if the owner is losing money. You thought that was the case. No one told you that, but that is what you thought. Now that you have discovered that the owner is not losing money, you feel less than altruistic, because that is the only reason you were donating.

I believe it is perfectly valid to ask members to contribute to the cost of running a website, from which they derive a benefit, no matter how much money is being made. I don't donate because I think Avery is losing money. I donate because I am being provided value. This is a business, NOT a government or a non-profit service.

If you do not want to pay for the benefit derived, you do not have to. However, trying to say that asking members to help cover the costs (even if that means the profit is higher) is NOT misleading. It is one of the ways websites generate revenue.

Peace,
dave

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Perhaps he should edit the OP to reflect that ads cover monetary costs and more, but donations would be nice too. It hasn't been updated since it was posted, and now ads are generating more than just "some" revenue (he referred to it in the 2007 OP that way, stating that it did not do enough to break even on monetary costs).

Fair enough?

-Trevor

twhite828 said:

Perhaps he should edit the OP to reflect that ads cover monetary costs and more, but donations would be nice too. It hasn't been updated since it was posted, and now ads are generating more than just "some" revenue (he referred to it in the 2007 OP that way, stating that it did not do enough to break even on monetary costs).

Fair enough?

-Trevor

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LOL! I thought you went to bed. I re-wrote and fleshed out my post above instead of waiting to post after you:yabbem:

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

LOL! I thought you went to bed. I re-wrote and fleshed out my post above instead of waiting to post after you:yabbem:

Peace,
dave

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Yeah, I definitely should've. It's now Blu-ray laser o'clock. I'm going to bed before it's green laser o'clock. Night.

-Trevor

twhite828 said:

Yeah, I definitely should've. It's now Blu-ray laser o'clock. I'm going to bed before it's green laser o'clock. Night.

-Trevor

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Me too. It's 1:00am here

Peace,
dave

Just to throw my pennies in.

I see Dave's, and Jay's points. They use the forum for a business. This is understandable why they make monthly donations.

On the other hand you have the basic user. I've been on piles of forums, and they dont ask you to help. No one helps pay for a forum. But then you have these crusades like Rob, and others have been on for donations, which make it sound like the forum is near bankrupt, and the forum needs these donation to keep going. When the truth is, it does not.

I dig making a profit. I also dig helping people that have helped me out. Maybe the "the donation committee" needs to give it a rest, and stop putting pressure on people to donate. Only then will this thread revert back to what it was intended for.

IMO I think this whole thread should be deleted. For one, people are still buying point because they get repped from other people. Two, Avery is/was still handing point for donations, and 3, the donation bar should be good enough to solicit donations to the people who want to donate. Evey time someone posts here, it queues the email notification. So whenever "the committee" chimes in, we are all pressured, and I dont think that's right. Unless the forum is truly in trouble.