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Old 04-16-2010, 08:08 AM #753
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
Quoting the OP...

So I guess it's just how you want to look at it... Can members help to cover the hosting, but all other revenue be for profit?

It seems that it's up to the owner. And of course all donations are voluntary...

It's obvious that the large majority do not donate. But it's their choice! And since it a matter of choice, we shouldn't demand to know exactly where the money is going. But that's just my opinion...

Not a big deal or anything... But it does seem like a discussion like this will detract from the idea of donating.

Hopefully it will turn, and have the opposite effect. And make people want to donate!
LPF gets 250,000+ hits per month. This translates into at least $1,000 of revenue per month. Donations are being collected on top of this. The most expensive plans offered by our host (that are overkill) are <$500/mo.

This leaves at least $500 of overhead ad revenue per month. Donations are being collected on top of it under the pretenses of covering the costs of the hosting. Those are clearly already covered by ad revenue.

Dave, the problem is not Avery making a living off the forum. That's great if he can do it. The problem is about donations being collected on top of already huge ad revenue, under the pretense of covering "costs."

Does no one but the few of us see a problem here?

-Trevor


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Old 04-16-2010, 08:14 AM #754
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

Quote:
Originally Posted by twhite828 View Post
LPF gets 250,000+ hits per month. This translates into at least $1,000 of revenue per month. Donations are being collected on top of this. The most expensive plans offered by our host (that are overkill) are <$500/mo.

This leaves at least $500 of overhead ad revenue per month. Donations are being collected on top of it under the pretenses of covering the costs of the hosting. Those are clearly already covered by ad revenue.

Dave, the problem is not Avery making a living off the forum. That's great if he can do it. The problem is about donations being collected on top of already huge ad revenue, under the pretense of covering "costs."

Does no one but the few of us see a problem here?

-Trevor
I do not see a problem there, I donate. If you have a problem with it, don't donate.

If you think that $1700 a month is "huge" revenue, you lead a very simple life.

Peace,
dave

**EDIT**
How about if you look at it this way then. Donations help cover "costs" and ad revenue helps cover beer. It's all the same "pool" of cash.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:19 AM #755
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
I do not see a problem there, I donate. If you have a problem with it, don't donate.

If you think that $1700 a month is "huge" revenue, you lead a very simple life.

Peace,
dave
If you think that $1700 a month is a small revenue from ads, you've never tried to run a site with Google AdSense.

If you see no problem with donating when possibly being misled, and are well-informed that the possibility exists, then there is no problem. I am concerned for those who are not informed, and would have a problem with it.

-Trevor
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:22 AM #756
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

Quote:
Originally Posted by twhite828 View Post
If you think that $1700 a month is a small revenue from ads, you've never tried to run a site with Google AdSense.

If you see no problem with donating when possibly being misled, and are well-informed that the possibility exists, then there is no problem. I am concerned for those who are not informed, and would have a problem with it.

-Trevor
It may be good money for a website. My point was, it is not good money for life.

Peace,
dave
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:25 AM #757
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

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Originally Posted by daguin View Post
It may be good money for a website. My point was, it is not good money for life.

Peace,
dave
'course it's not. Ads are there primarily to cover the cost of a site.

-Trevor
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:29 AM #758
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

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Originally Posted by twhite828 View Post
'course it's not. Ads are there primarily to cover the cost of a site.

-Trevor
I think that our main difference lies in that you think that donations should only be solicited if the owner is losing money (and this is what you thought was happening) and I think that in this environment it is perfectly acceptable to ask for the members to help pay for the site no matter how much money is being generated.

I don't want Avery to "break even." I want him to make so much money that he continues to work his ass off for us to keep the forum up and running

Peace,
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:31 AM #759
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

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I think that our main difference lies in that you think that donations should only be solicited if the owner is losing money (and this is what you thought was happening) and I think that in this environment it is perfectly acceptable to ask for the members to help pay for the site no matter how much money is being generated.

Peace,
dave
From my standpoint it appears that ads* are more than enough to pay for the forum (way more than enough), and donations appear to be merely lining his pockets.

All about perspective.

-Trevor

EDIT: Whoops, ads, not donations...
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:33 AM #760
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

Quote:
Originally Posted by twhite828 View Post
From my standpoint it appears that donations are more than enough to pay for the forum (way more than enough), and donations appear to be merely lining his pockets.

All about perspective.

-Trevor
My point is, Why is that a problem? If he is not making enough money to WANT to maintain the forum, it will slide into obscurity. Would you work your ass off just to break even? Anything over "breaking even" is "lining his pockets."

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Old 04-16-2010, 08:36 AM #761
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

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Originally Posted by daguin View Post
My point is, Why is that a problem? If he is not making enough money to WANT to maintain the forum, it will slide into obscurity. Would you work your ass off just to break even? Anything over "breaking even" is "lining his pockets."

Peace,
dave
There's a difference between having ads allow you to pay costs and line your pockets, and having that plus a donation goal that only does the latter - under the pretense of paying for hosting costs.

-Trevor
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:41 AM #762
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

Quote:
Originally Posted by twhite828 View Post
There's a difference between having ads allow you to pay costs and line your pockets, and having that plus a donation goal that only does the latter - under the pretense of paying for hosting costs.

-Trevor
It is all the same pool of money. ANYTHING coming into Avery's pocket is part of the pool that covers the costs AND from which any profit is taken. They are NOT separate money piles earmarked for specific purposes.

Donations help cover the cost of hosting
Donations help increase the profit
Ad revenue helps cover the cost of hosting
Ad revenue helps increase the profit

It is not one for one and something else for the other

Peace,
dave
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:43 AM #763
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
It is all the same pool of money. ANYTHING coming into Avery's pocket is part of the pool that covers the costs AND from which any profit is taken. They are NOT separate money piles earmarked for specific costs.

Donations help cover the cost of hosting
Donations help increase the profit
Ad revenue helps cover the cost of hosting
Ad revenue helps increase the profit

It is not one for one and something else for the other

Peace,
dave
Look at the OP. It asks for donations for a specific reason - covering costs. Is that not effectively earmarking? If it's not earmarking, it's certainly misleading.

-Trevor

EDIT: It's late; I'm going to bed. I guess I'll come back and see what's come of this come daylight.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:56 AM #764
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

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Look at the OP. It asks for donations for a specific reason - covering costs. Is that not effectively earmarking? If it's not earmarking, it's certainly misleading.

-Trevor
I agree. The more costs that can be covered by donations the more left over for beer. Asking for us to help cover costs, in no way implies that they would not already being covered in some other fashion. If it were my forum I too would want the members to cover the cost of hosting so that my work in selling ad space could stay in my pocket. It is how free enterprise works. It is how any profit could be earned. It is why Avery is willing to work to maintain the forum. He is not a non-profit agency providing an altruistic service to ease his troubled soul. This is a business.

If donations can cover costs, then profit is higher. It is NOT misleading.

It seems to continue along the same vein.

You believe that donations should only be solicited if the owner is losing money. You thought that was the case. No one told you that, but that is what you thought. Now that you have discovered that the owner is not losing money, you feel less than altruistic, because that is the only reason you were donating.

I believe it is perfectly valid to ask members to contribute to the cost of running a website, from which they derive a benefit, no matter how much money is being made. I don't donate because I think Avery is losing money. I donate because I am being provided value. This is a business, NOT a government or a non-profit service.

If you do not want to pay for the benefit derived, you do not have to. That is the beauty of the interwebz. However, trying to say that asking members to help cover the costs (even if that means the profit is higher) is misleading is not true. It is one of the ways websites generate revenue.

Peace,
dave
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:02 AM #765
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

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If donations can cover costs, then profit is higher. It is NOT misleading.

It seems to continue along the same vein.

You believe that donations should only be solicited if the owner is losing money. You thought that was the case. No one told you that, but that is what you thought. Now that you have discovered that the owner is not losing money, you feel less than altruistic, because that is the only reason you were donating.

I believe it is perfectly valid to ask members to contribute to the cost of running a website, from which they derive a benefit, no matter how much money is being made. I don't donate because I think Avery is losing money. I donate because I am being provided value. This is a business, NOT a government or a non-profit service.

If you do not want to pay for the benefit derived, you do not have to. However, trying to say that asking members to help cover the costs (even if that means the profit is higher) is NOT misleading. It is one of the ways websites generate revenue.

Peace,
dave
Perhaps he should edit the OP to reflect that ads cover monetary costs and more, but donations would be nice too. It hasn't been updated since it was posted, and now ads are generating more than just "some" revenue (he referred to it in the 2007 OP that way, stating that it did not do enough to break even on monetary costs).

Fair enough?

-Trevor
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:05 AM #766
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

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Originally Posted by twhite828 View Post
Perhaps he should edit the OP to reflect that ads cover monetary costs and more, but donations would be nice too. It hasn't been updated since it was posted, and now ads are generating more than just "some" revenue (he referred to it in the 2007 OP that way, stating that it did not do enough to break even on monetary costs).

Fair enough?

-Trevor
LOL! I thought you went to bed. I re-wrote and fleshed out my post above instead of waiting to post after you

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Old 04-16-2010, 09:06 AM #767
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

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LOL! I thought you went to bed. I re-wrote and fleshed out my post above instead of waiting to post after you

Peace,
dave
Yeah, I definitely should've. It's now Blu-ray laser o'clock. I'm going to bed before it's green laser o'clock. Night.

-Trevor
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:08 AM #768
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Default Re: Donating to LPF

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Originally Posted by twhite828 View Post
Yeah, I definitely should've. It's now Blu-ray laser o'clock. I'm going to bed before it's green laser o'clock. Night.

-Trevor
Me too. It's 1:00am here

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dave
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