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Old 08-04-2014, 04:49 PM #1
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Default Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

Hey everyone,
This last group buy went off so well and there was so much late interest I thought I would start a feeler for a second GB aiming for a order date around September 1.

So, if you have interest please email me using the forum tool. Email is easier for me to keep track of.

If you need details, please refer to the last GB thread listed here at LPF.

Dragon Lasers 589nm 50mw Handheld

I don't have exact details at this point but I suspect the price will be about the same.

Also, any freebies DL gives on this one will be randomly assigned to one of the participants. Last time a beam expander was sent. No guarantees at this point but I feel pretty confident I can get Adam to throw something in for free on a second GB.

So, use the last GB as a guide as to what to expect. Also, I will require the same deposits, etc.

Once enough interest is gained and I negotiate the deal with Adam I will post the final details here below that you can count on.

Remember, please email me with your interest so I can file your email in a folder to keep easy access to.

Cheers!
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:50 PM #2
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

Reserved for final details.........
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:58 PM #3
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

Count me in. I missed out on the last one and I don't want to make the same mistake twice.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:05 PM #4
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

At the moment, count me in as "tentative". I'm not 100% on it yet, but my common sense tells me to stop being so tight as it's clear these are virtually disappearing from the market.

I have some questions that I would like current owners of this laser to answer if they could please - how well does it operate on a typical cold evening, is it like 593.5 in which case it just goes "nope" or like many 532s in that it operates but just not as bright/stable? Also (and I know people hate this type of Q but I'm doing it anyway) roughly how comparable is the beam brightness of one of these to a 100mW 532? I'm guessing roughly similar.

If I like the sound of the answers then this will essentially replace the SM 635 I was planning to buy/build as a star pointer. Thanks all.
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:55 AM #5
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

Almost all of them tested at around 100mW so I would say they are brighter than a 532.

Mine is not finicky at all when it comes to stability or output power, both have remained fairly stable every time I light it up and measure it. Cycle on time is about 1 minute or less on these, keep that in mind. The host is rather small for such a powerful pump diode. I love the fact they are so small but it does limit your duty cycle.
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:44 AM #6
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

Thanks. What's the lowest temperature you've tested it down to? I appreciate we in the northern hemisphere are in summer at the moment but cold start performance would be quite important to me. I don't suppose anyone's done the highly scientific procedure of sticking it in the fridge overnight?!

Also, as a non CONUS participant, is it worth me being part of this GB or would you rather I bought one separate?
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:54 AM #7
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

I agree, mine starts right up at full power from a cold start. Actually, I think the 589's, and these spartan hosts in particular, prefer cooler temps.
IMO, a cold night would be perfect for these! I wouldn't try the refrigerator trick though, that moisture would definitely not be good.

As for brightness, the dot looks real similar to 100mW of 532nm to me, the beam, maybe a little less bright, but still very impressive.

Edit: Out of curiousity, I just checked the brightness comparison between 100mW of each, 532nm and 589nm, using the "Relative perceived brightness calculator".
Beam: (589nm 100mw) vs. (532nm 100mw)

The results surprised me; the calculator says that the 532nm beam is 1.75 times as bright as 589nm at the same output!
The dots are more similar though, with the 532nm being only 1.15 times as bright.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:22 PM #8
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

If the cooler temps don't bother them as much then I'm pretty much sold.

Still undecided about participating in the GB or ordering direct. I assume DL are china based so shipping a laser from CN to USA and then back to GB might be pushing my luck and also not incur much of a cost saving. Only thing is I'll miss out on it being metered. Tough decision.
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:16 PM #9
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

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Originally Posted by trencheel303 View Post
If the cooler temps don't bother them as much then I'm pretty much sold.

Still undecided about participating in the GB or ordering direct. I assume DL are china based so shipping a laser from CN to USA and then back to GB might be pushing my luck and also not incur much of a cost saving. Only thing is I'll miss out on it being metered. Tough decision.
Check the USPS website for flat rate delivery on a small flat rate box from OK to you and that's the price you can expect to pay in addition to the laser. Ordering direct from DL will cost about $440 - $450 after shipping directly to you i suspect, based on what I paid on my first at full retail with shipping ($442).

They should come in around $380 again so you should still save with the added shipping from the USA. Don't quote me on this but IIRC my last shipment to Europe on a small flat rate box was about $25.

You will likely save about $40 on the GB plus have your upgrade, coupon for a BE, and a chance to win whatever freebies he throws in with this deal.

To answer your question about the fridge test, no I have not done it but we keep our house chilled to about 67 degrees so from that starting point it is very stable and output is right at 100-110mw for the first 30 seconds and by the end of the duty cycle I am still above 90mw. I have not yet had the balls to run it long enough to drop all the way to 50mw, I would guess it would hit there around 90-100 seconds based on the curve I've made.

My eyes have always disagreed with those brightness calculators. I tend to see blue and yellow much better than red and green. I happen to have a 100mW green 532 and to me the 589 is much brighter. I would love to get with someone on the forum who sees the opposite and do a sight test comparison in person with the same gear to confirm my suspicions. Knowing the human body as a profession it makes perfect sense, and I have observed, the genetic variability and it's expression in the senses between individuals (especially taste and smell). I would almost be willing to bet there are some of us who have an over or under expression of the different rods in our retina for the different colors we perceive. Mine are quite possibly different than the average viewer. I bet with enough time someone will come along and read this post and agree that they have a similar experience as I do with color wavelength and perceived brightness. For me red is piss poor. I hear everyone talk about the 635 vs 650 being so dramatically different, but mW for Mw on my gear they look basically the same and compared to a blue of the same output are much less bright. Not what the graphs say however.

I don't really want to hijack my own thread too much here but I am curious what others have ti say about this.
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:25 PM #10
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

I agree re 650 and 635. When my 650 was working I had to take a long hard look with them both on to see much difference.

Anyway, back to the subject - I'll check postage on a flat rate box. $25 sounds awfully good to cross the ocean and get to me, your postage rates seem really cheap over there. Does this include insurance, tracking and god knows what else in case something goes wrong?

If I do go through with the GB which now sounds very likely, I would like to have mine metered after it is selected randomly purely for the purpose of knowing what it puts out as you can see I have no meter. I believe this was done or offered in the last GB upon request.
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:33 PM #11
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

Adam responded to my email regarding a probably second group buy. He was very happy with the first one and how well it went for everyone and is eager to do another whenever we are ready.

Unless he drops the price on this go around I will need to offset the price of this GB by something I forgot to factor into the last one. I was charged a bank transfer fee of $38 for an international transfer and didn't remember this when i posted the prices. That's not to say I am going to make up the difference on this GB for my losses on the last GB, I have eaten those. I am simply saying that whatever the total unit count on the GB becomes I will divide $38 fee I will incur on the transfer by the number of units ordered and add it to the final price per laser. Most likely $3.50 - $3.80 per laser. Not a big deal, and certainly shouldn't be a deal breaker for anyone on this go around.

I am going to ask Adam if I can expect any sort of freebie for organizing this one. As soon as I find out I will post it here so participants can know what they have an opportunity of winning. The freebie will be free and if it fits in the box, shipping will be as well. If it costs much more for shipping the freebie (especially international) I will pass that cost on to the winner. Shouldn't be much.

Adam mentioned a new blue 30mW pointer they are now carrying he wanted me to mention to the GB. It's quite possible I could get him to throw one of these in as a freebie as a sort of advertisement for this new rig. Personally I have no interest in a 30mw blue pointer but I would bet some of you out there would like to have one for free. I was not planning on making any suggestions on what he might give me this time but I am willing to should enough people pipe up and agree on something they would like to see. Last time it was about a $100 value gift (BE) so I am anticipating the same this time. I would also consider just asking for a coupon for $100 of a future purchase.

In addition to any freebies he may add to this order, I am going to ask him to provide one lucky participant an additional upgrade from Silver to Gold just to sweeten the pot. We will see what he says to this. Then I would have two different freebies to hand out this go around.

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Old 08-06-2014, 01:16 AM #12
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

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I agree re 650 and 635. When my 650 was working I had to take a long hard look with them both on to see much difference.

Anyway, back to the subject - I'll check postage on a flat rate box. $25 sounds awfully good to cross the ocean and get to me, your postage rates seem really cheap over there. Does this include insurance, tracking and god knows what else in case something goes wrong?

If I do go through with the GB which now sounds very likely, I would like to have mine metered after it is selected randomly purely for the purpose of knowing what it puts out as you can see I have no meter. I believe this was done or offered in the last GB upon request.

I would be glad to meter your laser after a random selection. Not sure if you kept up on the last group buy details on the output but all of them were within <10% variance in output with the mean in the first batch just above 100mW and the second batch coming in just a few points lower. If all arrives as I suspect these should easily hit >90mw for most of the duty cycle and will most likely peak above 100mw.

As far as shipping goes, the flat rate USPS international rates are decent I guess, but you need to consider what you are getting for around $25. If you haven't seen the box it is pretty puny. i would estimate around 4" deep, 1.75" tall, and about 7-8" wide. Possibly 60 cubic inches with a weight limit of around 4lbs IIRC. Think of how many of these they could put on a 737 transport jet, what maybe 1/4 to half a million? That's a guesstimate, probably more. It is robbery IMHO. I would say for something this small international shipping should be closer to $10, it is practically a fat envelope.

That price guess did not include insurance. It comes with $50 free and it is about 70 cents per $100 IIRC. Plan on adding about $3 for insurance. Tracking is free now on all USPS flat rate shipping.

One last thing, on the metering. I have an Ophir NoSpin with ARG's data logging built in. I still have not taken the time to download whatever program I need to make the data logging function operate because I don't have a PC at the house (all Mac at home) and I don't think they have the program for a Mac. I need to take the time soon to figure out what it will take to operate the data log but in case I don't I will meter it with iPhone 5S video data logging. Yes, I mean take a video with my phone while metering the laser. Also, if you try to compare an Ophir with a LaserBee you will find the LaserBee will always show less output due to the thermopile and time lag. Seems about 10% less on the LaserBee at this power level. So, if you ever meter it on a LaserBee and find the output is 10% less down the road, don't assume the worst. It would be expected from what I can see.
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Old 08-06-2014, 03:49 AM #13
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

Damn if I have the funds when this gets close to closing I may have to get another to go with my CNI 589. I have a feeling these are about to become as rare as hen's teeth.

Have you tried Peregrine with your LPM? I use it so I can use my USB laserbee with my Macs. The latest version is compatible with 10.9.
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:53 AM #14
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

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Originally Posted by LtKernelPanic View Post
Damn if I have the funds when this gets close to closing I may have to get another to go with my CNI 589. I have a feeling these are about to become as rare as hen's teeth.

Have you tried Peregrine with your LPM? I use it so I can use my USB laserbee with my Macs. The latest version is compatible with 10.9.
No, I have not tried anything with it yet. That is the one I was referred to but I don't have a link to the program download site yet. Any idea where I can get this program?
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:25 AM #15
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

If the blue 30mW pen is a 473 that's an awesome freebie.

The thing I would like to thrown in on this order would be a transmission fan diffraction grating. Whether as a gift or not, I need one so now is a good time and it'll fit in the package.

Edit: postage for some reason looks very expensive unless I'm not doing it right...

Edit edit: yes for some reason a flat rate box to the UK is coming out at nearly 80 dollars. I think then I'm going to be better buying individually, then I get to have the laser quicker too. I will ask if they can upgrade me to silver before buying.
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Old 08-06-2014, 01:23 PM #16
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Default Re: Second time around- 589 DL group buy feeler

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Originally Posted by trencheel303 View Post
If the blue 30mW pen is a 473 that's an awesome freebie.

The thing I would like to thrown in on this order would be a transmission fan diffraction grating. Whether as a gift or not, I need one so now is a good time and it'll fit in the package.

Edit: postage for some reason looks very expensive unless I'm not doing it right...

Edit edit: yes for some reason a flat rate box to the UK is coming out at nearly 80 dollars. I think then I'm going to be better buying individually, then I get to have the laser quicker too. I will ask if they can upgrade me to silver before buying.
I am almost certain that is not the correct box size. That's the same price I pay to Germany once a year for gifts I send in a Medium Flat Rate. I will double check for you when I get the chance. Again, almost absolutely certain that is not the rate for a small flat rate to Europe. You are even closer than Germany and the last small I sent there was definitely under $30.
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