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Old 11-17-2008, 02:13 PM #129
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

that's what im working on, trying to get all diodes weak to powerful *from one supplier cheap *

here is my order of 100 803t sleds and 5 samples or each sled
LPC815, dt0811, 2 sanyo ,SOH-D12
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:47 PM #130
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by treb76
Since the DT0811 is a weaker diode, maybe you can get them for <$10 for lower powered lasers :
IIRC lasersurplus or whatever it's called has KES sleds for $8... Be nice to have a cheap lower-midrange.
Terms like "weaker" don't have much meaning with regard to diodes. Also, it is NOT much less expensive to manufacture a lower powered diode, so prices don't rise or fall depending on the output. The price is MUCH more affected by market forces (supply vs. demand)

The KES is the PS3 diode. It is capable of around 20mW. It is often used as a lecture type pointer at less than 10mW

The DT-0811 and B0323 are capable of around 80-100mW

The PHR-803T is capable of 100-150mW

The 4X and the 6X are NOT well researched for our type of application yet.

Peace,
dave
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:11 AM #131
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin
[quote author=treb76 link=1226676427/120#128 date=1226934394]Since the DT0811 is a weaker diode, maybe you can get them for <$10 for lower powered lasers :
IIRC lasersurplus or whatever it's called has KES sleds for $8... Be nice to have a cheap lower-midrange.
Terms like "weaker" don't have much meaning with regard to diodes. *Also, it is NOT much less expensive to manufacture a lower powered diode, so prices don't rise or fall depending on the output. *The price is MUCH more affected by market forces (supply vs. demand)

The KES is the PS3 diode. *It is capable of around 20mW. *It is often used as a lecture type pointer at less than 10mW

I think these info's may bear adding to the Blu-ray FAQ you had up Dave! *-Glenn

The DT-0811 and B0323 are capable of around 80-100mW

The PHR-803T is capable of 100-150mW

The 4X and the 6X are NOT well researched for our type of application yet.

Peace,
dave
[/quote]
*Could be stuff that would be good to add to the Blu-ray Inf. thread you have posted Dave. *AMB! *-Glenn
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:02 AM #132
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

you say terms like weaker dont apply much to diodes?? explain this, it seems that some diodes cannot withstand higher current like other diodes can, so they are weaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin
[quote author=treb76 link=1226676427/120#128 date=1226934394]Since the DT0811 is a weaker diode, maybe you can get them for <$10 for lower powered lasers :
IIRC lasersurplus or whatever it's called has KES sleds for $8... Be nice to have a cheap lower-midrange.
Terms like "weaker" don't have much meaning with regard to diodes. *Also, it is NOT much less expensive to manufacture a lower powered diode, so prices don't rise or fall depending on the output. *The price is MUCH more affected by market forces (supply vs. demand)

The KES is the PS3 diode. *It is capable of around 20mW. *It is often used as a lecture type pointer at less than 10mW

The DT-0811 and B0323 are capable of around 80-100mW

The PHR-803T is capable of 100-150mW

The 4X and the 6X are NOT well researched for our type of application yet.

Peace,
dave
[/quote]
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:06 AM #133
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

Your very question helps to illustrate why terms like this have so little relevance to diodes *What does "stronger" and/or "weaker" mean in relation to diodes? *Is the PHR "stronger" than the DT? *Is one PHR diode "weaker" than a different PHR diode? *Does "stronger" mean that you can drive a type of diode a higher percentage above its rated current? *Does "weaker" mean that the diode type can only be driven at a lower current? *Being able to withstand more abuse would more readily lend itself to the term "tough" not "strong" and/or "fragile" not "weak."

Diodes are neither weaker or stronger. *They operate at higher or lower currents. *They have varying levels of rated and possible outputs. *"More powerful" and/or "less powerful" would at least relate to the amount of photonic energy being expressed. *

But "stronger"? . . . .Meh!

Peace,
dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by thebucketmouse
you say terms like weaker dont apply much to diodes?? explain this, it seems that some diodes cannot withstand higher current like other diodes can, so they are weaker?

[quote author=daguin link=1226676427/120#130 date=1226936867][quote author=treb76 link=1226676427/120#128 date=1226934394]Since the DT0811 is a weaker diode, maybe you can get them for <$10 for lower powered lasers :
IIRC lasersurplus or whatever it's called has KES sleds for $8... Be nice to have a cheap lower-midrange.
Terms like "weaker" don't have much meaning with regard to diodes. *Also, it is NOT much less expensive to manufacture a lower powered diode, so prices don't rise or fall depending on the output. *The price is MUCH more affected by market forces (supply vs. demand)

The KES is the PS3 diode. *It is capable of around 20mW. *It is often used as a lecture type pointer at less than 10mW

The DT-0811 and B0323 are capable of around 80-100mW

The PHR-803T is capable of 100-150mW

The 4X and the 6X are NOT well researched for our type of application yet.

Peace,
dave
[/quote]
[/quote]
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:28 AM #134
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin
Your very question helps to illustrate why terms like this have so little relevance to diodes What does "stronger" and/or "weaker" mean in relation to diodes? Is the PHR "stronger" than the DT? Is one PHR diode "weaker" than a different PHR diode? Does "stronger" mean that you can drive a type of diode a higher percentage above its rated current? Does "weaker" mean that the diode type can only be driven at a lower current? Being able to withstand more abuse would more readily lend itself to the term "tough" not "strong" and/or "fragile" not "weak."

Diodes are neither weaker or stronger. They operate at higher or lower currents. They have varying levels of rated and possible outputs. "More powerful" and/or "less powerful" would at least relate to the amount of photonic energy being expressed.

But "stronger"? . . . .Meh!

Peace,
dave


[quote author=thebucketmouse link=1226676427/120#132 date=1226977366]you say terms like weaker dont apply much to diodes?? explain this, it seems that some diodes cannot withstand higher current like other diodes can, so they are weaker?

[quote author=daguin link=1226676427/120#130 date=1226936867][quote author=treb76 link=1226676427/120#128 date=1226934394]Since the DT0811 is a weaker diode, maybe you can get them for <$10 for lower powered lasers :
IIRC lasersurplus or whatever it's called has KES sleds for $8... Be nice to have a cheap lower-midrange.
Terms like "weaker" don't have much meaning with regard to diodes. Also, it is NOT much less expensive to manufacture a lower powered diode, so prices don't rise or fall depending on the output. The price is MUCH more affected by market forces (supply vs. demand)

The KES is the PS3 diode. It is capable of around 20mW. It is often used as a lecture type pointer at less than 10mW

The DT-0811 and B0323 are capable of around 80-100mW

The PHR-803T is capable of 100-150mW

The 4X and the 6X are NOT well researched for our type of application yet.

Peace,
dave
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

But still, you DO have them listed there in ascending order from "weakest" to "strongest" ;D
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:53 AM #135
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage
[
But still, you DO have them listed there in ascending order from "weakest" to "strongest" * ;D
No. They are listed from lowest output to highest output.

Peace,
dave
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:31 AM #136
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

OK, NOW I'm sending payment. PayPal wouldn't work on my phone last night, but I'm on my desktop (which I built myself ;D), so I'm getting that payment done...

And...

It's...

Almost...

Done...

DONE!
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:22 AM #137
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

How much more powerful are they than the PHR's? Mine is already pushing 130mW. Is it worth it? :P
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:44 AM #138
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin
[quote author=treb76 link=1226676427/120#128 date=1226934394]Since the DT0811 is a weaker diode, maybe you can get them for <$10 for lower powered lasers :
IIRC lasersurplus or whatever it's called has KES sleds for $8... Be nice to have a cheap lower-midrange.
Terms like "weaker" don't have much meaning with regard to diodes. Also, it is NOT much less expensive to manufacture a lower powered diode, so prices don't rise or fall depending on the output. The price is MUCH more affected by market forces (supply vs. demand)

The KES is the PS3 diode. It is capable of around 20mW. It is often used as a lecture type pointer at less than 10mW

The DT-0811 and B0323 are capable of around 80-100mW

The PHR-803T is capable of 100-150mW

The 4X and the 6X are NOT well researched for our type of application yet.

Peace,
dave
[/quote]
These figures are also subject to lifetime. Most 'normal' diodes have a knee, which if you exceed that current, they die rapidly. PHR on the other hand is very strange in this aspect and is more forgiving, yet degradation still happens. I would say 105-110mW is the highest to drive a PHR if you aim for 1000+ hours. If you drive it at 150mA, don't expect more than 20 hours!

To give an example of 'strangeness' of the PHR, let's compare it to the most well known, the open can.

When driven 100%, both live 1000hr (just some figure to get the idea, not actully based on reality)
When driven at 150%, red still lives >500Hr, PHR lives 20Hr
When driven at 200%, red still lives >100Hr, PHR lives 5Hr
When driven at 300%, red dies instantly, PHR still lives 2Hr
When driven at 350%, PHR still lives 20min.

Here I assume 120mW for red and 80mW for PHR to be '100%'

[edit]
When drawn in a (logarithmic) graph, it would perhaps look like this:

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Old 11-18-2008, 12:19 PM #139
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin
[quote author=Kage link=1226676427/120#134 date=1226986107][
But still, you DO have them listed there in ascending order from &quot;weakest&quot; to &quot;strongest&quot; * ;D
No. *They are listed from lowest output to highest output.

Peace,
dave[/quote]

There are weaker and stronger diodes, Dave.

A stronger diode is a diode that can withstand a larger amount of optical flux without melting. Any diode can be set to &quot;any&quot; power, the question is, how long. A stronger diode will be able to take it for longer, a weaker diode could put out a nanosecond pulse of 400mW and melt itself, the moment you turn it on.

To make a diode capable of putting out more power for a longer time, manufacturers have to find a way to make the optical mirrors capable of withstanding higher powers = &quot;stronger&quot; mirrors, for example. As well as other things...


The power you set a diode to has nothing to do with how strong or how weak it is. How long it will take that power, does. There's a difference between the two.
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:32 PM #140
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorT
There are weaker and stronger diodes, Dave.

A stronger diode is a diode that can withstand a larger amount of optical flux without melting. Any diode can be set to &quot;any&quot; power, the question is, how long. A stronger diode will be able to take it for longer, a weaker diode will put out a nanosecond pulse of 400mW and melt itself, the moment you turn it on.
To make a diode capable of putting out more power, manufacturers have to find a way to make the optical mirrors capable of withstanding higher powers = &quot;stronger&quot; mirrors, for example..
The amount of power coming out of a diode has nothing to do with how strong or how weak it is. How long it will take that power, does.
We are deeply into semantics. *However, what you are describing here would be &quot;tough vs. fragile&quot; not &quot;strong vs. weak.&quot; *They are synonyms, but not interchangeable. *Also semantics must always include the context (especially with synonyms/antonyms). *The context of the original &quot;strong vs. higher output&quot; statements was that the DT-0811 diodes was &quot;weaker&quot; than the PHR-803T diode and should thus be less expensive.

Peace,
dave
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:55 PM #141
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

Maybe this would be a good analogy:

A stronger person can lift a heavy object. A weaker person can lift the same weight. But the stronger person will be able to hold it up, while the weaker will get a hernia and go to a hospital...


Or a bridge. A weak bridge will collapse under the same weight which a strong bridge can hold up. We don't say &quot;tough bridge&quot;, but &quot;strong bridge&quot;. Unless i'm mistaken. Afterall, english is not my first language..


I'm just saying, the amount of power a diode can be set to, has nothing to do with the power it can take. Theoretically any diode can be set to any power, but only a stronger diode can take that power for any appreciable amount of time..

The amount of power coming out of a diode is just the weight applied to the bridge.. It has nothing to do with the bridge alone. It's two separate things. You can put any amount of weight on any bridge, but only a strong bridge will be able to support it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:29 PM #142
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorT
Maybe this would be a good analogy:
A stronger person can lift a heavy object. A weaker person can lift the same weight. But the stronger person will be able to hold it up, while the weaker will get a hernia and go to a hospital...
Or a bridge. A weak bridge will collapse under the same weight which a strong bridge can hold up. We don't say &quot;tough bridge&quot;, but &quot;strong bridge&quot;. Unless i'm mistaken. Afterall, english is not my first language..
I'm just saying, the amount of power a diode can be set to, has nothing to do with the power it can take. Theoretically any diode can be set to any power, but only a stronger diode can take that power for any appreciable amount of time..
The amount of power coming out of a diode is just the weight applied to the bridge.. It has nothing to do with the bridge alone. It's two separate things. You can put any amount of weight on any bridge, but only a strong bridge will be able to support it.
As I said; semantics. You are mixing both strong and tough. However, IMNHO it matters very little either to the discussion of diodes or to the original context.

I, once again, take us back to the original context. Would you agree with the statement that the DT-0811 diode is &quot;weaker&quot; than the PHR-803T diode?

Peace,
dave
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:15 PM #143
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

I think a better way to formulate it is to say &quot;The DT diode can handle less than the PHR diode&quot;
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:20 PM #144
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Default Re: SANYO 12x Feeler !!!!! pictures updated

I don't know. Unfortunatelly, i never had the pleasure of testing them.

But if they need to be set to 80mW in order to live as long as a PHR at 100mW (or if both are set to the same power and the DT0811 dies first), then yes. However, they are both quite weak, so it's hard to distinguish.
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