Pgl 589 gb, dead in the water.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

Im ok with the delay being removed.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

Im fine with no delay.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

I say whatever is easiest. I can see how the 5 second delay would be annoying but if it's going to greatly delay production or shipment than I would just rather have the laser as is.
I think if all the heads, bodies, and other parts CNI ships them in will be safe. Individual package shipping of each part would be pricy.
Just my thoughts.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

nwfreefly said:

I emailed CNI today to get a shipping quote and to get their opinion on dealing with customs for shipping lasers in parts. Also asked them how they want to receive payments.

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Will CNI guarantee delivery of lasers in 3 pieces to an address in Canada i.e. will CNI refund the money paid to them in the event the package or packages are confiscated by Customs? If not then what is their opinion worth??

I found this on Laserglows web site -- "In Canada: Consumers are not permitted to purchase portable lasers classified as Class 3B or higher, as per Health Canada regulations. You may only purchase a high-powered portable laser by submitting a Purchase Order on behalf of an organization (company, government department, or educational institution) with a defined commercial or academic requirement for such a device. The device may not subsequently enter into commerce within Canada. (It may not be sold, rented, loaned, or given away.) "

Also Justin ---VP of Laserglow had this to say about "kits" see post 37 and 42 http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/canadian-restrictions-portable-lasers-official-info-release-laserglow-73129-3.html

post 37 --"Also, yes, it looks like kits are covered in the definition of a "consumer product". So, no kits. Health Canada/Customs may not clue in right away, but importing or selling kits for high-powered portable lasers would appear to violate the Act. You've been warned! "

post 42 -- "The CCPSA does not clearly indicate "lasers". It classifies "dangerous goods", and Health Canada has made the determination that high-powered portable lasers are "dangerous goods". I'm not sure that they have published a list detailing every product which is affected, but I have it in writing from Health Canada that this is their interpretation.
It is worth noting that the CCPSA applies to all "consumer products" and there is a short list in Schedule 1 that lists product categories it does not apply to. (Drugs, tobacco, medical equipment, etc.) They have intentionally made it apply to as many products as possible. Once again, if you're looking for loopholes, there are none. If you try to use some harebrained interpretation of the Act to utilize a perceived loophole, you're probably in violation of the Act, because your interpretation is probably wrong unless you're a lawyer who specializes in regulatory compliance. (In which case, I might have a job for you.) "
__________________
Justin Hosaki
Vice President of Sales and Operations
Laserglow Technologies
Laserglow Technologies
jhosaki@laserglow.com
416.729.7976

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

Encap said:

Will CNI guarantee delivery of lasers in 3 pieces to an address in Canada i.e. will CNI refund the money paid to them in the event the package or packages are confiscated by Customs? If not then what is their opinion worth??

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They're a company that ships to Canada in the past and present so to me their opinion is of value and helpful. I asked if they have had any problems shipping this way to Canada in the past if they haven't and they don't anticipate any issues then their opinion is helpful to us.
Look guys in the end there is a risk and we are ALL sharing the burden of that risk. I am trying to create an accurate picture of how much or little that risk is and CNI's past experiences with shipping to Canada is helpful in making this determination.

Down with Umbrella said:

I say whatever is easiest. I can see how the 5 second delay would be annoying but if it's going to greatly delay production or shipment than I would just rather have the laser as is.
I think if all the heads, bodies, and other parts CNI ships them in will be safe. Individual package shipping of each part would be pricy.
Just my thoughts.

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I agree with you completely. In order to keep a good working relationship with CNI I will ask them about this if and when it is an appropriate time to do so. To me the 5 second delay isn't something worth complications or confusion nor a high priority at the moment but I will keep it in mind. So if the time comes and things are going smoothly I will inquire about it but too many inquires and special requests isn't always a good thing. Right now I want to more focus on the safest way to ship these lasers and get them through customs without incident or raising flags.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

nwfreefly said:

They're a company that ships to Canada in the past and present so to me their opinion is of value and helpful. I asked if they have had any problems shipping this way to Canada in the past if they haven't and they don't anticipate any issues then their opinion is helpful to us.
Look guys in the end there is a risk and we are ALL sharing the burden of that risk. I am trying to create an accurate picture of how much or little that risk is and CNI's past experiences with shipping to Canada is helpful in making this determination.

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That's all good but do they guarantee delivery? As they haven't had any problems in the past it figures they should as our order is chicken feed to them but tons to us. It would be good to have the facts.

Btw I'm ok with the delay being removed.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

If we want to eliminate any potential issues associated with "kits", there is always the option of simply ordering only the bare modules and doing what we want from there. It would save us a bit on pricing and shipping costs, and AFAIK would keep everything in the clear for both US and Canada import. It would be easy to have our machinists make us hosts to just drop our modules into.

Just throwing ideas out there...

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

styropyro said:

If we want to eliminate any potential issues associated with "kits", there is always the option of simply ordering only the bare modules and doing what we want from there. It would save us a bit on pricing and shipping costs, and AFAIK would keep everything in the clear for both US and Canada import. It would be easy to have our machinists make us hosts to just drop our modules into.

Just throwing ideas out there...

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What came across my mind was sending them over here, to The Netherlands, and then I'll ship them in separate packages to everyone else. I have yet to receive a package that has been opened by the customs. People even managed to get guns shipped here, it's ridiculous.

It's not my group buy however, and I completely understand it if people want nwfreely to handle it all. Just a thought.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

nwfreefly said:

They're a company that ships to Canada in the past and present so to me their opinion is of value and helpful. I asked if they have had any problems shipping this way to Canada in the past if they haven't and they don't anticipate any issues then their opinion is helpful to us.
Look guys in the end there is a risk and we are ALL sharing the burden of that risk. I am trying to create an accurate picture of how much or little that risk is and CNI's past experiences with shipping to Canada is helpful in making this determination.

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Good points and fair comments----my point is CNI should be willing to say something like -- "CNI guarantees the receipt of your item(s). If your item(s) is lost for any reason during shipping to you, we will either provide a full refund or send you a replacement free of charge." If they are not willing to make such a promise then you can assume there is substancial risk that they know about but are playing down. If you can get them to assure delivery to an address in Canada that would eliminate some of the risk associated with the GB. Just a thought.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

Hey guys here is the email I recieved from Yang at CNI. I assume she meant $35 per unit not $350 but that is a lot more than what I was quoted when it was shipping to the UK so I need to re configure the numbers with this new shipping costs. It will bring up the total per unit by about $20 each.
My next email I will ask what happens in the event custom seizes or refuses the shipment. Here is the email. Its a little broken English but I think I get the meaning.

Hello Jeff,

Thank you for you email.
The freight charges is USD350.00/pc from China to Vancouver B.C. The shipment not be insured. After sent the laser that we will give your tracking number.
We will separate 3 components and add a attenuation slice for the PGL-III-C-589-80mw portable laser. Then the PGL-III-C-598-80mw portable laser output power will less then 5mw. And we will tab the PGL-III-C-589<5mw label on the laser. And the invoice and shipping list are also less than 5mw label. Shipped the goods without any problem.
Please tell me which power of 561nm portable laser do you need? Then we will send the proforma invoice to you. The proforma invoice include the CNI bank information.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

Well that's lame about the extra shipping! But good to hear about the labeling. Makes me feel less stressed about the whole thing.
So I guess when in doubt... go balls out. Just keep us updated! IDK about you guys but I check this thread every few hours!

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

Encap said:

Good points and fair comments----my point is CNI should be willing to say something like -- "CNI guarantees the receipt of your item(s). If your item(s) is lost for any reason during shipping to you, we will either provide a full refund or send you a replacement free of charge." If they are not willing to make such a promise then you can assume there is substancial risk that they know about but are playing down. If you can get them to assure delivery to an address in Canada that would eliminate some of the risk associated with the GB. Just a thought.

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My next email will be addressing this and I will post the reply for everyone to read. I'm trying to find the best way to word this inquire because the language barrier can be difficult.


Edited to add- Okay guys the email is sent. I tried to express the concerns as diplomatically and professionally as possible. Yang has been really great so far and I am trying my best to keep up the good working relationship and not drive her too crazy. Like has been said earlier here, for us this is a LOT of money but to them this is a small order so I have to choose words carefully yet also be direct.

Really great news guys! Here you go.

Hello Jeff,

Thank you for your trust.
The 11pcs portable laser freight charges is USD350.00, no problem.
You can rest assured that we have been sent the high power portable laser to Canada according to what i said method. Canadian customs did not appear any problems. If the laser detained by Canadian customs, they will return the laser to our that when we received the laser we will refund you money. Don't worry.
Yang

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

Sounds good, guess we won't have to worry then. The stickers will be useful for shipping them to us too. I'm pretty confident that this won't cause any customs problems.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

nwfreefly said:

Really great news guys! Here you go.

Hello Jeff,

Thank you for your trust.
The 11pcs portable laser freight charges is USD350.00, no problem.
You can rest assured that we have been sent the high power portable laser to Canada according to what i said method. Canadian customs did not appear any problems. If the laser detained by Canadian customs, they will return the laser to our that when we received the laser we will refund you money. Don't worry.
Yang

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Sounds like delivery to Canada is covered other than Declared Value and any Duty and other Taxes that are imposed on anything valued at more than CA$20 value.
You may have to pay duty and additionally the goods and services tax (GST) generally 5% or the harmonized sales tax (HST) and the provincial sales tax (PST). You should look into what the additional costs will be--contact someone in Canada that can help assess that situation you expect to encounter.

If you are planning to bring them into the USA and there can be a possible inspection by US Customs when crossing the border, I would guess it is not a safe bet to use the CNI supplied paperwork showing lasers <5mW in doing that because as of 12 February 2015 CNI was put on the "red" list see them listed here: Import Alert 95-04.
If CNI was not on the "red" list CNI would have no problem shipping them to the USA by same way and no need to ship them to Canada. Prior to 12 Feb 2015 shipping to USA would not present a problem. Unfortunately that is no longer the case.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

Encap said:

Sounds like delivery to Canada is covered other than Declared Value and any Duty and other Taxes that are imposed on anything valued at more than CA$20 value.
You may have to pay duty and additionally the goods and services tax (GST) generally 5% or the harmonized sales tax (HST) and the provincial sales tax (PST). You should look into what the additional costs will be--contact someone in Canada that can help assess that situation you expect to encounter.

If you are planning to bring them into the USA and there can be a possible inspection by US Customs when crossing the border, I would guess it is not a safe bet to use the CNI supplied paperwork showing lasers <5mW in doing that because as of 2 February 2015 CNI was put on the "red" list see them listed here: Import Alert 95-04.
If CNI was not on the "red" list CNI would have no problem shipping them to the USA by same way and no need to ship them to Canada. Prior to 12 Feb 2015 shipping to USA would not present a problem. Unfortunately that is no longer the case.

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Thanks for the info encap. I already researched the duty/taxes on the order and applied it to the cost of each laser in the OP. For $6500 declared value we are looking at about $350 import tax. CNI will not be putting >80mW labels on the devices and I will not have any paperwork regarding the order with me. I will mail that from BC to my house address so we have it but just not in the vehicle. I have put some serious hours and thought into this whole endeavor its definitely not something I am taking lightly.

Re: PGL-III-C-589 GB-Payments stage.

starlight said:

So they are adding an attunator to make them 5mW or am I reading this wrong? Will we be able to remove the attenuator if there is one? There will or won't be lables? Assembly is basic I assume.

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Thats something i will have to ask about attenuators. Good point starlight one email said no labels this one says less than 5 mW labels. If they do put Any labels on regardless of power rating stated im removing them for the transport thats not something im willing to compromise on.