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Old 12-05-2008, 11:23 PM #1297
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Oh well.. I really hope the supply lasts for a while longer..

Otherwise, i should maybe buy another 100 asap, while they're available and cheap.. *:


The only annoying part is, that when i buy a lot at once, statistics takes over, and i get an even spread of low, medium and high efficiency diodes. Every time there's a shitload of diodes that need up to 150mA to reach 115mW..


But then again, at least i don't feel too bad when i kill the ones i have left over in various experiments..

I'm preparing the last sets of my tests, where i'll let diodes compete against each other. PHR vs. PHR at the same power but different power-up times, PHR vs. 4x at the same power, lifetime tests, and so on..


In the end, even if PHRs should run out, when it all started i paid more for a PHR, than for the 4x's now! Partially due to custom fees and taxes, but still.. If i survived it then.. 4x's are better anyway. How much better i will know very soon. (i'm gonna go to diode hell)


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Old 12-05-2008, 11:26 PM #1298
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Amk, any word on 6x's?
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Old 12-05-2008, 11:27 PM #1299
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Dave - if the lasing threshold gets to be over a 'safe' pointer power, couldn't you PWM it to bring it down?

I know there still would be pulses of too-high; but they could be very short. And if that's not good enough you could put it through some crappy optics - or a nice filter - to absorb some of the 405. The optics would not be damaged because they would probably 'care' more about average power.

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Old 12-05-2008, 11:28 PM #1300
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

my supplier says that they are runing out of phr803t sleds *and there supplier to
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Old 12-06-2008, 12:08 AM #1301
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by danq
Dave - if the lasing threshold gets to be over a 'safe' pointer power, couldn't you PWM it to bring it down?

I know there still would be pulses of too-high; but they could be very short. And if that's not good enough you could put it through some crappy optics - or a nice filter - to absorb some of the 405. The optics would not be damaged because they would probably 'care' more about average power.

DanQ

I have not yet seen a diode which couldn't lase at as low a power as you want.

Especially now on the diode analyzer, when i start at 0mA and slowly increase, at around 20-30mA diodes start putting out 1mW and then slowly more and more... That's the same with PHRs and with 4x's, and with "12x's"...


I don't think that's the reason for Dave looking for other diodes.
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:02 AM #1302
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

^Correct, IgorT to danq. The way to think about it is at threshold, stimulated emission is 0mW, and climbs linearly from there at a rate determined by the efficiency of the diode. But for all intents and purposes, emission goes from 0 to 1mW at threshold, and you can set any power you want for the laser (up to the maximum, of course).
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:03 AM #1303
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage
Hmm, having said all this, I don't remember the PS3 diodes ever getting really cheap like the PHRs, either.. :-[
That's because the PS3 game consoles are still out there being used and repaired. The HD DVD players are not.

Peace,
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:12 AM #1304
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by pullbangdead
^Correct, IgorT to danq. *The way to think about it is at threshold, stimulated emission is 0mW, and climbs linearly from there at a rate determined by the efficiency of the diode.
Yeah, but spontaneous emission also registers on the meter, so to simplify, i set the LED output to show 0mW on my meter, or i simply decide that when it shows 1mW, that's the threshold.. It's more than accurate enough for our purposes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pullbangdead
But for all intents and purposes, emission goes from 0 to 1mW at threshold, and you can set any power you want for the laser (up to the maximum, of course).
Well, with 405nm's, you can also set them above the maximum. Two, three or even four times their maximum..
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:30 AM #1305
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Well, with 405nm's, you can also set them above the maximum. Two, three or even four times their maximum..
Always at the expense of lifetime, though.
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:21 AM #1306
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin

That's because the PS3 game consoles are still out there being used and repaired. The HD DVD players are not.

Peace,
dave
So, following this logic, then, would you say that it is not all that likely that 6X sleds will become available in cheap mass quantities like the PHRs unless they suffer the same unexpected obsolescence of the HD DVD units? I am asking this because I am beginning to suspect my earlier assumption that all LD's would eventually become cheap and available was grossly optimistic... :'(
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:27 AM #1307
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage
[quote author=daguin link=1223438970/1300#1307 date=1228529024]

That's because the PS3 game consoles are still out there being used and repaired. *The HD DVD players are not.

Peace,
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So, following this logic, then, would you say that it is not all that likely that 6X sleds will become available in cheap mass quantities like the PHRs unless they suffer the same unexpected obsolescence of the HD DVD units? *I am asking this because I am beginning to suspect my earlier assumption that all LD's would eventually become cheap and available was grossly optimistic... :'([/quote]

Well, there's always defective sleds. The manufacturers will always sell them off cheap, and it's usually not the diode that's bad.. They'll never be in as high quantities as the PHRs though, I would imagine, but I'm sure no expert, I just happen to be reading along..


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Old 12-06-2008, 03:46 AM #1308
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage
So, following this logic, then, would you say that it is not all that likely that 6X sleds will become available in cheap mass quantities like the PHRs unless they suffer the same unexpected obsolescence of the HD DVD units? *I am asking this because I am beginning to suspect my earlier assumption that all LD's would eventually become cheap and available was grossly optimistic... :'(

Well we are changing the dynamics of this market right now so things may end up being very different for the next "wave" of diodes. *Usually it goes something like this:

1) a diode is developed and drives begin to be built.
2) the manufacturing run is done for the first years needs
3) "warranty" sleds are manufactured
4) QC rejects get thrown into a bin for later scrapping
5) The next new diode is developed and drives begin to be built (the older tech is abandoned and the factory retools for the new sleds/diodes)
6) We start getting the warranty sleds from places like PSX BOY
7) someone finds the Chinese distributors
8) if we are VERY VERY lucky we find who is in control of the QC reject bin
9) we buy up all of the rejects and start on the warranty sleds again.
10) they are all gone

Now, however, through the diligent work of people like AMK and Jake the Chinese resellers/distributors now know that they can make some money off of us IF they can find the sleds we want. *So not only will WE be looking around for the scrapped sleds, so will several Chinese distributors. *We now know just how aggressive they can/will be finding a way to get our money. *Hopefully as soon as the 6X's actually do become available, one of these suppliers will get them into our hands as quickly as possible.

The next "obsolete" diode will become available. *We just hope that there is not much of a "break" in between the end of the ones we are using and the new ones becoming available. *Having multiple Chinese sellers looking for supplies for us SHOULD make that "break" at least shorter, maybe non-existent.

Peace,
dave

**EDIT** Sorry. I missed a step in there. Also, usually we first find the next diode by tearing up many different drives looking for it before a distributor is found.
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Old 12-06-2008, 05:19 AM #1309
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin

Well we are changing the dynamics of this market right now so things may end up being very different for the next "wave" of diodes. Usually it goes something like this:

1) a diode is developed and drives begin to be built.
2) the manufacturing run is done for the first years needs
3) "warranty" sleds are manufactured
4) QC rejects get thrown into a bin for later scrapping
[quote author=Kage link=1223438970/1300#1300 date=1228522296]
The only drawback I can think of might be efficiency at a level that close to the lasing threshold, but I believe the difference between a PHR and, say, a 6x would be pretty negligible...
5) The next new diode is developed and drives begin to be built (the older tech is abandoned and the factory retools for the new sleds/diodes)
6) We start getting the warranty sleds from places like PSX BOY
7) someone finds the Chinese distributors
8) if we are VERY VERY lucky we find who is in control of the QC reject bin
9) we buy up all of the rejects and start on the warranty sleds again.
10) they are all gone

Now, however, through the diligent work of people like AMK and Jake the Chinese resellers/distributors now know that they can make some money off of us IF they can find the sleds we want. So not only will WE be looking around for the scrapped sleds, so will several Chinese distributors. We now know just how aggressive they can/will be finding a way to get our money. Hopefully as soon as the 6X's actually do become available, one of these suppliers will get them into our hands as quickly as possible.

The next "obsolete" diode will become available. We just hope that there is not much of a "break" in between the end of the ones we are using and the new ones becoming available. Having multiple Chinese sellers looking for supplies for us SHOULD make that "break" at least shorter, maybe non-existent.

Peace,
dave

**EDIT** Sorry. I missed a step in there. Also, usually we first find the next diode by tearing up many different drives looking for it before a distributor is found.[/quote]

Nice synopsis!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage
The only drawback I can think of might be efficiency at a level that close to the lasing threshold, but I believe the difference between a PHR and, say, a 6x would be pretty negligible...
What I meant by this earlier statement was simply that any higher power BLD could be used for a low power pointer as long as the lasing threshold was similar to the PS3 or PHR i.e. in the range of 30-40mA, so that it would not require a different driver or use up the battery too fast.
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:19 AM #1310
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElektroFreak
Quote:
Well, with 405nm's, you can also set them above the maximum. Two, three or even four times their maximum..
Always at the expense of lifetime, though.
That's what i keep saying. Altho it would seem many people don't understand this part....

That's because 405nm diodes are like cockroaches. 660nm's died almost instantly if you pushed them too far. 405nm's keep pretending they are fine, just long enough to convince you they will survive and then they suddenly die.

Misunderstandings about how stuff works then lead to creation and reinforcement of myths about diodes..
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Old 12-06-2008, 12:53 PM #1311
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin
1) a diode is developed and drives begin to be built.
2) the manufacturing run is done for the first years needs
3) "warranty" sleds are manufactured
4) QC rejects get thrown into a bin for later scrapping
5) The next new diode is developed and drives begin to be built (the older tech is abandoned and the factory retools for the new sleds/diodes)
6) We start getting the warranty sleds from places like PSX BOY
7) someone finds the Chinese distributors
8) if we are VERY VERY lucky we find who is in control of the QC reject bin
9) we buy up all of the rejects and start on the warranty sleds again.
10) they are all gone
Dave, you missed some more steps...

8.1) Someone mentions being afraid of PHRs running out
8.2) Chinese suppliers read these threads
8.3) Chinese suppliers realize if they say "PHR's are running out!" we will buy more faster
8.4) Chinese suppliers tell Jake "PHR's are running out!"
8.5) Jake says "PHR's are running out, buy now!"
8.6) We buy like crazy
8.7) More sleds appear miraculously, even cheaper than before
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:08 PM #1312
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

8.2) Chinese suppliers read these threads

Very true, but my supplier doesn't seem to know anything, she keeps asking what i use them for. ;D
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