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Old 12-04-2008, 07:05 PM #1249
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by danq

....
But - you usually end up being correct, so I'm not going to say you're definitely* wrong!

:-?
DanQ

*notice i said definitely. I definitely would appreciate it if people would quit using defiantly when they mean to express certainty - unless they are being challenged and are taking a strong stand... :
Hey, I've noticed that a lot too, kind of like hearing a sour note in a musical passage -
Very anointing ... ;D


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Old 12-04-2008, 07:13 PM #1250
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage
[quote author=danq link=1223438970/1240#1252 date=1228419887]

....
But - you usually end up being correct, so I'm not going to say you're definitely* wrong!

:-?
DanQ

*notice i said definitely. I definitely would appreciate it if people would quit using defiantly when they mean to express certainty - unless they are being challenged and are taking a strong stand... *:
Hey, I've noticed that a lot too, kind of like hearing a sour note in a musical passage -
Very anointing ... ;D[/quote]
:'( sum uv us dinent git lurnt howe two speel in skool ;D

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Old 12-04-2008, 07:19 PM #1251
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zom-B
I never expected the 4x to bee so similar to PHR. Someone (I don't remember who) even said that you can't get to 150mW with every PHR but you can with every 4x, if you want them to live long. I wonder how true that turns out to be.

In my PHR experience, the freaks (ones with really high efficiency) were also the ones with the highest (or no) kink, and are the ones that die the quickest. It seems that 4x of you that died is the same.

I've also had two PHRs die (semi-)instantly while increasing the current beyond a certain point. One died immediately. The other one dropped in power over a course of <5 seconds, I quickly turned the power from 170 to 160mA (where it was stable), then the power was stable again for a little while, and started dropping exponentially again until it was less than 30mW in output. Strangely enough, with the new curve, the peak power has now shifted to 85mA and above that it starts dropping at increasing rates until it settles at 30mW.

Btw, did you get my recorders yet?

Based on what I've seen in this thread, and on other pictures I've seen, I think that the diodes in these 4x sleds and PHRs are the same. They both behave similarly and the both have the exact same digital stamp on the back of the case. Food for thought......
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:38 PM #1252
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElektroFreak
[quote author=Zom-B link=1223438970/1240#1246 date=1228413887]I never expected the 4x to bee so similar to PHR. Someone (I don't remember who) even said that you can't get to 150mW with every PHR but you can with every 4x, if you want them to live long. I wonder how true that turns out to be.

In my PHR experience, the freaks (ones with really high efficiency) were also the ones with the highest (or no) kink, and are the ones that die the quickest. It seems that 4x of you that died is the same.

I've also had two PHRs die (semi-)instantly while increasing the current beyond a certain point. One died immediately. The other one dropped in power over a course of <5 seconds, I quickly turned the power from 170 to 160mA (where it was stable), then the power was stable again for a little while, and started dropping exponentially again until it was less than 30mW in output. Strangely enough, with the new curve, the peak power has now shifted to 85mA and above that it starts dropping at increasing rates until it settles at 30mW.

Btw, did you get my recorders yet?

Based on what I've seen in this thread, and on other pictures I've seen, I think that the diodes in these 4x sleds and PHRs are the same. They both behave similarly and the both have the exact same digital stamp on the back of the case. Food for thought......
[/quote]

I've not seen the 4x diode itself, but surely this would be a common sense assumption? If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....its probably a duck..... right??? :-?
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:39 PM #1253
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

I think all diodes except [s]#10[/s] #6* and #7 can be pushed at least twice as far, with just the reduced lifetime as a result. It's those ones with the high kink that die early and sudden.

What if you multiply V[sub]f[/sub] with the current and plot that on the X-axis, would all lines show the same steepness? (I noticed clear changes in the threshold current, so the lines won't coincide for sure. Those I[sub]th[/sub] changes are not often observed with PHR though, with some exceptions)


*The colors are not very clear. I guess that #10 is red so #6 must be brown. Next time I recommend a 16-color PNG image.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:41 PM #1254
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElektroFreak
Based on what I've seen in this thread, and on other pictures I've seen, I think that the diodes in these 4x sleds and PHRs are the same. They both behave similarly and the both have the exact same digital stamp on the back of the case. Food for thought......
No, they are not even close to being the same. They have some similarities, but they are most definitelly NOT the same as PHRs!
Neither is the digital stamp. As far as i know, the stamp is different. Isn't it?

- The wavelength is MUCH more consistent with 4x's (barelly any differences - PHRs vary like crazy!)
- The beam profile is much better (better aspect ratio) with 4x's
- At &quot;lower&quot; powers (like 140mW), a 4x will outlive a PHR, at absurd powers (like 170mW), the same PHR can actually outlive a 4x! (only hours, but still)
- The electrical characteristics are different
- 4x's are a bit more consistent
- 4x's are not 40-60mW diodes (PHRs are - A PHR wouldn't last long, when used in a 4x writer)
- The very first 4x i tested survived &gt;150mW for 137 hours. In &gt;100 PHRs i tested (killing 27 and counting), i never saw one survive 150mW or more for longer than 15-20 hours


A few months ago, people used to think that PHRs and 6x's are one and the same. They also look the same from the outside, they have the same looking, but different barcode, both can be pushed to ridiculous powers... But a 6x actually survives that for some time, while a PHR only doesn't die if you barelly use it. Once you look at them from the inside, then they are suddenly completelly different.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:49 PM #1255
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zom-B
What if you multiply V[sub]f[/sub] with the current and plot that on the X-axis, would all lines show the same steepness? (I noticed clear changes in the threshold current, so the lines won't coincide for sure. Those I[sub]th[/sub] changes are not often observed with PHR though, with some exceptions)
Hehe, when i saw the Vf being higher with &quot;higher efficiency&quot; 4x's, i had the same thought - plotting optical power out vs. electrical power in, instead of just current in..


But i barelly found time to do that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zom-B
*The colors are not very clear. I guess that #10 is red so #6 must be brown. Next time I recommend a 16-color PNG image.
I know, i tried to improove it a bit, but i barelly had time to do that!


The data is only in 10mA resolution (but the kinks are so long, that it doesn't matter much), and the voltage data is not put in yet, but once i get all the numbers in, i can send to you and you can play with it.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:49 PM #1256
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana64

I've not seen the 4x diode itself, but surely this would be a common sense assumption? If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....its probably a duck..... right??? :-?
That's just a twisted form of induction. Science is driven by deduction.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:59 PM #1257
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

As I stated.....I have not seen the 4x diode itself. I was merely pointing out the fact that IF the digital stamp on the PHR is the same as on the 4x, then they would have to be the same, as the stamp is the identification of the diode itself. My analogy &quot;looks like a duck&quot; was meant as humor only.

Ted
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Old 12-04-2008, 08:29 PM #1258
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by danq
Igor, these are the 4x diodes we payed $45-55 for a month or so ago, right?
These are 4x diodes, yes. It says so at the top of the graph.. *:P


Quote:
Originally Posted by danq
I don't remember the thread where it's discussed, but I thought several-to-many people were running them at 170+mA and getting more than 150mW ?? including me - have one in a purple Kryton Groove that's at 175mA, been running for several weeks, sometimes for 10+ minutes constant.
Well, people also think, that PHRs can survive 150mW and more! *:-?

You'll find the answers to why, and why not, in the first thread i'll post after many months, once i finally have some time (and finish the last experiments = murder the last diodes).


As for the 4x's.. I barelly had time to read the forum for months now! But i read this thread very carefully. And i talked to some people in PMs.. I remember every 4x that died, and what power it died at. I remember those that died at &quot;low&quot; powers even better! (ask Kage)

There are more reasons for my fears, than just the graphs. The graphs just told me they are more inconsistent than i hoped, and that some have low kinks and low differential efficiency. There is a good reason i ended those graphs at 170mA.. Those diodes were not all mine. I'll only torture the ones i have left over.


The very first 4x i tested lasted for 137 hours at 150mA putting out &gt;150mW for most of the time. It did this below the kink, and dropped in only after degrading a lot. If they were all like that, i'd be jumping from joy!


I also have a 4x in a personal laser, putting out 154mW at 160mA. If it can survive that as long as the first one, or at least half as long, i'll be VERY happy!


But at the same time, the &quot;12x&quot; is also seemingly surviving 193mA, putting out 156mW with this incredibly round beam, pretending to be the best 405nm diode ever. But the question is, &quot;how long?&quot;...

Don't underestimate the fake toughness of 405nm diodes. It has deceived all of us!
405nm's are NOT like 660nm diodes! 660nm diodes at least had the decency to die if you killed them!
405nm's are like cockroaches. They keep crawling around for a while after they are dead. Sometimes long enough to hide under a cupboard and make you think they survived...


Quote:
Originally Posted by danq
Your graph shows most or at least many of the diodes on a linear upward trend when you cut them off at about 165mA - so I don't see that the data matches a pessimistic conclusion.
I emphasised, that i'm NOT concluding anything just yet. Just that i have a bad feeling (based on my tests and some reports), and need to do more testing.

My hopes for these were, that i could get 130-140mW out of them consistently, below the first kink! And those hopes were shattered by the graphs. There are many diodes i will have to push above the kink, and i don't yet know how long that will last, so i wasn't able to use those for lasers i make for other people.. I will have to test how long they last above the kinks..


Otherwise, Dan, i HOPE i am wrong. I WANT to be wrong. I would PRAY to be wrong (if i wasn't an atheist). Just like i wanted to be wrong about PHRs not being able to survive &gt;150mW for more than 20 hours at best...

When i first read about Kage losing two 4x's in a row, at only 140mW, i was hoping he is a beginner, doesn't know what he is doing and cap-zapped them or something (sorry Kage *:-[). But then i talked to him, and realized he knows more about electronics than me..


Again, i'm not saying anything for sure just yet. I am in the middle of a big project at work, which i need to finish two weeks ago, so i won't be able to do the testing for a few more days. A week after that, i will know for sure - a week if my fears are ungrounded, that is.. Much sooner, if they are correct.
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Old 12-04-2008, 08:45 PM #1259
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zom-B
[quote author=Montana64 link=1223438970/1240#1256 date=1228423106]

I've not seen the 4x diode itself, but surely this would be a common sense assumption? If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....its probably a duck..... right??? :-?
That's just a twisted form of inducktion. Science is driven by deducktion.[/quote]


QUACK!
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:00 PM #1260
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix3200
[quote author=Zom-B link=1223438970/1260#1260 date=1228423799][quote author=Montana64 link=1223438970/1240#1256 date=1228423106]

I've not seen the 4x diode itself, but surely this would be a common sense assumption? *If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....its probably a duck..... right??? * :-?
That's just a twisted form of inducktion. Science is driven by deducktion.[/quote]


QUACK![/quote]

lol
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:06 PM #1261
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

*duck*
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:20 PM #1262
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by treb76
[quote author=dataplumber9 link=1223438970/1180#1190 date=1228255367][quote author=daguin link=1223438970/1180#1187 date=1228254686][quote author=dataplumber9 link=1223438970/1180#1186 date=1228254476]Please allow me to weasel out of this GB.
Faded expectations.... :-[
The existing GB is NOT for these claimed &quot;12X&quot; sleds. *The current GB is for 6X sleds. *IMNHO 6X sleds are well worth the price. *Now if they end up not being 6X then we have a different issue.
[/quote]

I was concerned that this GB had morphed into an order for the GGWs... but I can see now that's *not the case.
Retain my order for the 2 PHRs...
[/quote]
This GB is an order for the GGWs... :-? There are no PHRs in this GB unless amk is sneaking some in. :P[/quote]

Yeow! I obviously got this GB mixed-up with the other 2 GBs I'm into. The alternate labels of 4x, 6x, 12x, and changes to the first descriptive post in this thread have been confusing for this newbie. No change in my original request. I'll wait for all the DUCKS to be in line for the &quot;6x sled&quot; situation...
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/h...duckndidla.jpg
(NEVER give a didla to a duck!)
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:42 PM #1263
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix3200
[quote author=Zom-B link=1223438970/1260#1260 date=1228423799][quote author=Montana64 link=1223438970/1240#1256 date=1228423106]

I've not seen the 4x diode itself, but surely this would be a common sense assumption? *If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....its probably a duck..... right??? * :-?
That's just a twisted form of inducktion. Science is driven by deducktion.[/quote]


QUACK![/quote]
HEY! get the duck outta here!
* *;D
believe it or not,
I was once at a party - many years ago - and for an hour [s]straight[/s], we all communicated only by quacking - and made at least as much sense to each other as normal party-talk. Try it...
* *8-)
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Old 12-04-2008, 10:08 PM #1264
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Default Re: GGW-H20L 6x Sled GB!!! THE EPIC GB THREAD LAWL

Must be like THIS research paper. *;D

...yes it was published in the annuls of improbable research...search for a video of the talk!
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