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Old 11-13-2008, 05:45 AM #785
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! Supply is almost dry! Hur

Quote:
Originally Posted by amkdeath
no garuntees on H20L yet, still trying to convince the supplier *;D

and yes the H10L is coming to the end of its days.
My request for 5 from GB4 still stands

Peace,
dave


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Old 11-13-2008, 05:52 AM #786
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! THEY ARE GOING FAST!

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin
We might also be dealing with a potential issue with the V2 flexdrives. *At least one other person has noticed the same thing I am experiencing. * The output drops as the batteries wear. *I'm sure that your power source is giving a steady full voltage. *The output in our hand helds may be lower because the current from the V2 driver is dropping with voltage drop. *It may have been 210mA when I put it together, but three days of burning later it most certainly is no longer putting out 210mA.
I know Dave, didn't we talk about that over a month ago - i asked you if the power of your lasers is higher on empty battery than on full?

The difference between a full Li-Ion (3.9V under load) and a half empty lithium primary (~2.5V under load) is ~6mA - the current is 6mA higher on empty battery, than on full. I noticed that immediatelly on CR123 lasers, when switching batteries - the power of a 150mW PHR would jump by 10mW. I discussed it with Lava and he said the new version is gonna behave better.

But for a test setup i wouldn't allow that to happen anyway. It's not hard to stabilise them even on batteries.. I mostly have less than 2mA of difference between full and empty when using them now, but for the test setup, the power comes from a "cycler" circuit, which is supplied by a stabilised power supply, and helps avoid just that. Because the input voltage is constant, so is the output current.


There is another thing i discussed with Jayrob, when he first asked me if i am sure about the current being only 150mA - there is also some variation with the output voltage, but in the opposite direction. The higher the output voltage, the higher the current. My dummy load, where i set the 150mA did not have the exact same Vf as a 6x diode. It was around 5.3V, not 6V, like a 4x at 150mA. But even if the dummy voltage would only be 3.6V, and the diode voltage 6V, 150mA on the dummy would translate to 154-155mA once on the diode, definitelly not >170mA, which would seem to be the required current for 164mW on other 4x's..


I normally use my own drivers for blu rays, but i "stabilised" this FlexDrive before using it for testing. And i know for sure, that in all cases i saw this effect was reversible - when you put in a fresh battery, the current is back to normal. It doesn't gradually decline or climb. It just goes back and forth a little.

In the 4x test setup the input voltage is constant, and the current doesn't change. If it is different from what i set it to, it is from the dummy/diode Vf difference, but it's a minimal difference. And since it doesn't gradually drift, i will check what it was preciselly, at the end of the experiment so i will know for sure... I just don't want to interrupt the "accelerated aging" test as long as the diode is alive..


Otherwise, the diode is now nearing ~80 hours, and it burnt a hole in the lens! *;D
I need to check the counter for the actual time, but the power, after changing the lens is 153-154mW again.....
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:01 AM #787
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! Supply is almost dry! Hur

The power is still at 154mW's!! This is good news isn't it Igor?

It was at 154mW's 20 hours ago! Maybe as the lens started melting (lol) , it was affecting *the reading...
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:11 AM #788
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! THEY ARE GOING FAST!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorT
I know Dave, didn't i ask you about that over a month ago - if the power of your lasers is higher on empty battery than on full?

The difference between a full Li-Ion (3.9V under load) and a half empty lithium primary (~2.6V under load) is 6mA - the current is 6mA higher on empty battery, than on full. I noticed that immediatelly on CR123 lasers, when switching batteries - the power of a PHR would jump by 10mW. I discussed it with Lava and he told me the new version is gonna behave better
The decrease in output was a fairly orderly decline. That's why I figured it was simply the diode degrading. I never saw an increase. Oh well. 180mW at 210mA with the new batteries. This is a little higher than when I first set the driver with the other batteries.

Peace,
dave
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:31 AM #789
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! THEY ARE GOING FAST!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorT
I mostly have less than 2mA of difference between full and empty when using them now, but for the test setup, the power comes from a cycler circuit, which is supplied by a stabilised power supply, to avoid just that. Because the input voltage is constant, so is the output current.
:-? waitaminnit...

are you implying that unless the input voltage to a circuit is held constant, the output current won't be constant? for a current regulating circuit??? I thought that's what they're for.

please tell me I'm misunderstanding you... I know that you know otherwise.

and: Lava's driver - ostensibly a current regulator - doesn't quite regulate the current over the expected range of battery charge? and the current increases with decline in charge?!? :P
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:45 AM #790
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! THEY ARE GOING FAST!

Quote:
Originally Posted by danq
[quote author=IgorT link=1223438970/780#785 date=1226559173]I mostly have less than 2mA of difference between full and empty when using them now, but for the test setup, the power comes from a cycler circuit, which is supplied by a stabilised power supply, to avoid just that. Because the input voltage is constant, so is the output current.
:-? waitaminnit...
are you implying that unless the input voltage to a circuit is held constant, the output current won't be constant? for a current regulating circuit??? I thought that's what they're for.
please tell me I'm misunderstanding you... I know that you know otherwise.
and: Lava's driver - ostensibly a current regulator - doesn't quite regulate the current over the expected range of battery charge? * and the current increases with decline in charge?!? *:P[/quote]

Not an implication, an observation by at least three different people. This is only with Version 2, as far as I know.

Peace,
dave
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:09 AM #791
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! THEY ARE GOING FAST!

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin
Not an implication, an observation by at least three different people. *This is only with Version 2, as far as I know.
ahh... I didn't realize that that part of his discussion was also referring to the Flexi's.

hmmm, ever ride a Flexi? the lower you get, the faster you go... and more likely to crash... laser drivers as childhood memory analog? :

oh, give me an ohm, where the voltage don't roam; and a beer and a cantaloupe lay!
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:35 AM #792
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! Supply is almost dry! Hur

Haha, DanQ, it's not that dramatic. It's not really a big issue inside a laser, it is most noticable when dummy loading and using long wires between the battery and the driver.. But it can easily be made more stable...

It is mostly the result of the driver being a more complex circuit, so that it can be a universal driver for all diodes, and so that it would allow grounding common cathode diodes to the metal host - it has an op-amp... Every driver changes in current a little with the input voltage, but the op-amp can interfere with the feedback to the boost IC a little, resulting in increased output changes.

When i first saw that it surprised me. I am used to seeing small changes, usually <0.3mA of difference between full and empty battery on most of my drivers. That's how i test them - i vary the input voltage to make sure that the current is steady and the driver working. But they are optimised for 405nm diodes and can't power reds... The circuit is simple, and because of that stable.

But if i add an op-amp or a current-sensing IC to it, the same behavior becomes noticable. It's in the opposite direction, and around 4mA, but it's the same thing.. In both cases it can be stabilised a little, but some voltage dependancy remains. It's somewhat of a compromise required to make a universal driver.


But i am sure that this doesn't happen in the 4x test setup, because i used the most stable FlexDrive from the bunch, added come caps to stabilise it and powered it from a stabilised voltage source...
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:54 AM #793
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! Supply is almost dry! Hur

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob
The power is still at 154mW's!! This is good news isn't it Igor?

It was at 154mW's 20 hours ago! Maybe as the lens started melting (lol) , it was affecting *the reading...
Jay
I do think it is good news Jay!


When i read the testing reports here, i got so worried, that i canceled my third order of 10 more 4x's. Now i regret that.... *:-/

This diode has by now outlived any PHR i have ever put through similar testing. It even outlived some PHRs at 100-110mW, when tested the same way.. So i think it is now safe to say that this diode is considerably better than PHRs. 150mW may be a bit much for it, but by now it would have survived a year even in my hands!


I will go check the counter now.. Ok, it says 5174, each count is a one minute powerup, so just over 86 hours!

Not bad for 150mA. When i would test a PHR in the same setup at 150mA, i would get 3-20 hours...


Oh, and yeah, the lens did in fact melt a little. When i visualised the beam this morning, i saw a "hole" in the middle. So i picked it up and played with the focus, and if the focus was outwards from parallel, there was a dark spot in the middle of the enlarged spot. I thought it was a speck of dust, but i couldn't remove it. But when i moved the lens inwards from parallel, the same spot was suddenly brighter, than the rest of the beam. That's when i started suspecting the lens itself.

It is actual damage on the lens from 86 hours of 405nm. I heard that acrylics degrade in UV, but this is the first time i saw it, because it's the first time a diode at this power blasted against a lens for so long. I knew that it could cause a power decline, but i had no idea that it would be visible! It's in the precise middle of the lens, where the beam has the highest intensity.. There is ~23% more power behind the lens - this extra power is wasted only on "baking" the plastic lens..

When i put a fresh clean lens in, the power jumped a little from before, so a part of the power decline came from the lens degrading, and not just the diode. But it was a smaller part. I did always double check the power readings with the "blu" lens, to eliminate things like wavelength drift and lens degradation.

I put this lens aside, cos i want to look at it under a microscope..


Anyway, a part of the power decline did come from the lens, which is good news, cos it means the power has not yet dropped by more than 10mW. but both the diode and the lens degraded gradually over the same time, so the lens didn't just add a 2mW drop all of a sudden, but rather slowly added to it little by little, untill it caused 3-4mW difference and even became visible!

This morning the power was showing only 150mW! Then i switched the lens and it went back to 153-154mW.
I paused the test now, so that i can let it cool off completelly, and measure the "cold power" - the 164mW at the start was the power at 20C..


EDIT: Cold power is 155mW!

EDIT 2: Something strange started happening while it was running. Sometimes the power would start at only 141mW, then climb to 153-154mW as it warmed up, then it would drop to 150mW as it warmed up more.. The wavelength was changing slightly, but not enough to explain this.

I think that the diode has degraded just enough to fall back into the first kink. It's possible, that the high power was the result of this diode having the first kink lower than others, so 150mA brought it out of it and produced the high power. But as 405nm diodes degrade, they "roll" down their own slope - the threshold could have climbed just enough for 150mA to be barelly above the first kink. When it was at only 141mW, there was a hint of mode hopping present, so it's a possibility.. If it degrades further, i would expect the power to start dropping faster, but due to the kink.

EDIT 3: Indeed, the behavior has now become predictable. The diode has degraded to a level, where it starts in a kink. The only thing i don't understand is why it climbs out of it as it warms up. It should be the other way around..
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Old 11-13-2008, 08:10 AM #794
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! THEY ARE GOING FAST!

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin
The decrease in output was a fairly orderly decline. *That's why I figured it was simply the diode degrading. *I never saw an increase. *Oh well. *180mW at 210mA with the new batteries. *This is a little higher than when I first set the driver with the other batteries.
I don't quite understand. Is your power higher than what you first set it to, or lower? Cos you mention degradation, which would mean lower, but you also say higher?


In any case, i tested my FlexDrives by varying the input voltage and the load Vf, and the results were predictable, and repeatable. I have not yet seen a steady drift in any direction.

So if you saw a steady decline, it probably was degradation, otherwise the power would go back and forth.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:53 PM #795
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! Supply is almost dry! Hur

Sure is interesting reading all or your analysis with the testing of different lenses and conditions Igor. You've pretty much written a book on the testing of these blu-ray diodes!

I am still very interested to find out if your batch of sleds that you got from a different supplier are the same, or different than these sleds from Amk. Maybe you just got a 'HOT' diode, but more mW than mA through acrylic sure sounds like a 6X! (wouldn't that be nice)
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Old 11-13-2008, 05:28 PM #796
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! Supply is almost dry! Hur

It would be so nice, that i dare not even hope it...

But no, i am sure they are the same. It would seem that my 4x simply had the first kink slightly lower, so 150mA brought it out of it... Cos now that it degraded and "rolled down" it's own slope, it fell into the kink, and suddenly does 140mW cold.

But as it warms up it comes out of the kink.


I think it would be good to take this diode off the tester and plug it into the diode analyzer. It could give interesting insights into where to set the others, from the shape of the graph.....

It's as if the kink moves as the diode warms up. But i can't figure out in which direction, without plotting it cold and warmed up. In any case, the diode analyzer will give me the answers i am looking for. I wanted to finish it in time specifically for the 4x's..
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:20 AM #797
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! Supply is almost dry! Hur

BAD NEWS:

The supply is done. There are no more of these LG sleds in circulation. The actual manufacturer only accepts orders of 2000+.


GOOD NEWS:

I am working with the supplier to get the new 8x Panasonic sleds!!!

more updates to come.
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:34 AM #798
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! Supply is almost dry! Hur

Quote:
Originally Posted by amkdeath
BAD NEWS:

The supply is done. There are no more of these LG sleds in circulation. The actual manufacturer only accepts orders of 2000+.


GOOD NEWS:

I am working with the supplier to get the new 8x Panasonic sleds!!!

more updates to come.

Has the 3rd run shipped yet?
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:54 AM #799
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! Supply is almost dry! Hur

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaburn
[quote author=amkdeath link=1223438970/780#796 date=1226636411]BAD NEWS:

The supply is done. There are no more of these LG sleds in circulation. The actual manufacturer only accepts orders of 2000+.


GOOD NEWS:

I am working with the supplier to get the new 8x Panasonic sleds!!!

more updates to come.


Has the 3rd run shipped yet?
[/quote]



nope that is where the problem is. I cannot buy anymore. so I can either find 8x sleds and ship them for no extra price, or if I find some other sled. it is still questionable at this point, so please wait if anyoone is thinking about a refund.

EDIT: Ok, so we found drive models on the 8x, no sled models. They have another sled from a blu-ray burner, The will send me 3 for testing today. I will push slowly up to around 400mA, see when it dies. the second one I will set at wherever the dead one was stable, and see how long it lasts at what mW.

alternatively, I could send one to IgorT for the diode analyzer.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:05 AM #800
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Default Re: 6x Blu-ray SLEDS GB! Supply is almost dry! Hur

more update!!::

They said the manufacturer says these are from New Sanyo Blu-Ray Disc burners... The only Blu-ray Disc burners sanyo makes are 12x...

interestifying... Maybe I dont want to send one of my "free tests" to Igor after all... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

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