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Old 12-13-2011, 06:08 PM #273
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
rhd, where did you get these quotes? are those actually from their site or did you create those as an example? if they are on their site can you post the links to where those statements are? that would help. thanks.
I just clicked on the "Our Policy" link at the very bottom of their main webpage.

It's useful to be as clear, concise, and direct as possible.


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SAFETY & IMPORTANT READING (threads authored and contributed to by various members of LPF):
- Federal Aviation Administration - Laser Safety Initiative (link)
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)


Last edited by rhd; 12-13-2011 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:14 PM #274
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

Ok everyone...I have a corporate account with Capitol One and decided to contact them today...not to file a dispute but to gather information regarding the dispute process. I explained the situation to a dispute specialist and much to my surprise this guy fully understood my issues and was able to repeat them back to me concisely...from what I could tell he fully understood the issue with the power output, the cross threaded tail cap, and the button that doesn't make proper contact. After a lengthy conversation about these issues I was advised by this representative to file the dispute now while it is in the 7 day window of receipt. He advised if I filed the dispute now they would credit my account back the money within 3 days. What happens next is the merchant must prove that they followed their stated return policy and if they could not or I could provide proof to the contrary, the credit would stay on my account. If they can prove they followed their ststed policy then the credit would be removed from my account. In talking with the dispute specialist he assured me if they did not immediately offer an RMA number when I requested one (as per their policy) then the case was pretty much a closed case in my favor. At this point he advised that I keep all emails and records in case they need them. He seemed to think they wouldn't due to the stated return policy on their website. Basically Lazerman must provide the RMA number for my return (which doesn't exist) and if the can't or don't, case is settled in my favor.

Bottom line is, I took his advice and filed the dispute. I can close it at anytime if Lazerman decides to comply with my requests. For now I will keep ot open and let the process take care of itself....my peace of mind is worth more than $340 to be honest and at this point my peace of mind has been restored at leat for now.

RHD, I appreciate your advice and remarks but I felt this was my best option given all attempts at resolution with Lazeman has been a dead end so far.

I will keep everyone abreast of this as it plays out.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:18 PM #275
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

Satisfaction Guarantee

Lasersman is pleased to offer a 7 day satisfaction guarantee. If you are not completely satisfied with your product, you may return it within 7 days of receipt for a full refund minus shipping cost. No questions asked!

Please note this offer does not apply to our portable laser units.

Was that last part there before? Because it is now!
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:24 PM #276
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmillerdoc View Post
Ok everyone...I have a corporate account with Capitol One and decided to contact them today...not to file a dispute but to gather information regarding the dispute process. I explained the situation to a dispute specialist and much to my surprise this guy fully understood my issues and was able to repeat them back to me concisely...from what I could tell he fully understood the issue with the power output, the cross threaded tail cap, and the button that doesn't make proper contact. After a lengthy conversation about these issues I was advised by this representative to file the dispute now while it is in the 7 day window of receipt. He advised if I filed the dispute now they would credit my account back the money within 3 days. What happens next is the merchant must prove that they followed their stated return policy and if they could not or I could provide proof to the contrary, the credit would stay on my account. If they can prove they followed their ststed policy then the credit would be removed from my account. In talking with the dispute specialist he assured me if they did not immediately offer an RMA number when I requested one (as per their policy) then the case was pretty much a closed case in my favor. At this point he advised that I keep all emails and records in case they need them. He seemed to think they wouldn't due to the stated return policy on their website. Basically Lazerman must provide the RMA number for my return (which doesn't exist) and if the can't or don't, case is settled in my favor.

Bottom line is, I took his advice and filed the dispute. I can close it at anytime if Lazerman decides to comply with my requests. For now I will keep ot open and let the process take care of itself....my peace of mind is worth more than $340 to be honest and at this point my peace of mind has been restored at leat for now.

RHD, I appreciate your advice and remarks but I felt this was my best option given all attempts at resolution with Lazeman has been a dead end so far.

I will keep everyone abreast of this as it plays out.
Well that actually makes some sense. In that case, I would still encourage you to send one final email where you very clearly say "I want an RMA as stated in your policy."
- Otherwise, they might claim that it wasn't clear that you were only interested in an RMA, and might claim that their policy wasn't engaged.
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SAFETY & IMPORTANT READING (threads authored and contributed to by various members of LPF):
- Federal Aviation Administration - Laser Safety Initiative (link)
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)


Last edited by rhd; 12-13-2011 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:27 PM #277
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcranmer View Post
Satisfaction Guarantee

Lasersman is pleased to offer a 7 day satisfaction guarantee. If you are not completely satisfied with your product, you may return it within 7 days of receipt for a full refund minus shipping cost. No questions asked!

Please note this offer does not apply to our portable laser units.

Was that last part there before? Because it is now!
Good catch, we all missed that. It was there before
Google Cach LasersMan: Laser Pointers & Laser Pointer Pen Online Shop

I think the way that page lays it out, made it easy to miss.
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SAFETY & IMPORTANT READING (threads authored and contributed to by various members of LPF):
- Federal Aviation Administration - Laser Safety Initiative (link)
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)


Last edited by rhd; 12-13-2011 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:41 PM #278
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
Good catch, we all missed that. It was there before
Google Cach LasersMan: Laser Pointers & Laser Pointer Pen Online Shop

I think the way that page lays it out, made it easy to miss.
Yep, I just took a closer look and noticed there were 2 conflicting Satisfaction Guaranteed polices stated. One right on top of the other.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:47 PM #279
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcranmer View Post
Yep, I just took a closer look and noticed there were 2 conflicting Satisfaction Guaranteed polices stated. One right on top of the other.
I actually think you guys are fine, despite that provision. Look at how it appears:

Quote:
Satisfaction Guarantee
Lasersman is pleased to offer a 7 day satisfaction guarantee. If you are not completely satisfied with your product, you may return it within 7 days of receipt for a full refund minus shipping cost. No questions asked!
Please note this offer does not apply to our portable laser units.

Satisfaction Guarantee.
If you are not 100% satisfied with your purchase, return it within 7 days for a full refund. Absolutely no questions asked!
These are two different Satisfaction Guarantees:
- The first, offers a "...full refund minus shipping cost. No questions asked!"
- The second, offers a "...full refund. Absolutely no questions asked!"

These are different guarantees, because they offer different things. One gives you a refund in full, the other a refund minus shipping costs. The first one happens to not apply to portable laser units. It says: "Please note this offer does not apply to our portable laser units." So you can't utilize this first guarantee.

The second guarantee has no limitation indicated. So you guys will only want to rely on that second guarantee.
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CURRENT WAVELENGTHS:
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SAFETY & IMPORTANT READING (threads authored and contributed to by various members of LPF):
- Federal Aviation Administration - Laser Safety Initiative (link)
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)


Last edited by rhd; 12-13-2011 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:58 PM #280
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
I actually think you guys are fine, despite that provision. Look at how it appears:



These are two different Satisfaction Guarantees:
- The first, offers a "...full refund minus shipping cost. No questions asked!"
- The second, offers a "...full refund. Absolutely no questions asked!"

These are different guarantees, because they offer different things. One gives you a refund in full, the other a refund minus shipping costs. The first one happens to not apply to portable laser units. It says: "Please note this offer does not apply to our portable laser units." So you can't utilize this first guarantee.

The second guarantee has no limitation indicated. So you guys will only want to rely on that second guarantee.
Also from past experience with CC disputes, its incumbent on the vendor (Lasersman in this case) to be clear about their policies. any confusion is their responsibility typically.

More important is that in other areas of the site where their refund policy and warranty are stated, there is no mention of an exclusion of any products and i frankly did not look at the page with the exclusion. once i saw the refund policy on the customer-service page i took that as their policy.

http://www.lasersman.com/about-us/
http://www.lasersman.com/FAQs/
http://www.lasersman.com/customer-service/
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All together too many lasers:
650nm: 5mw pointer (early)
250mw O-like OL-CR-250 (170mw)

635nm: 500mw pointer rhd build 18650 SH-032 (650mw)
500mw O-like lab

532nm: 100mw SH032 DX module pointer (120mw)
150mw tri Lights Lab (260mw)
600mw Wicked Lasers Spyder III Krypton first gen

473nm 50mw Ultra Lasers Labby (over spec 160mw)
488nm 80mw Multi-line AL60X Argon
445nm: 1.3W Flaminpyro SS (1350mw) 1.4W
Wannaburn Super-small SS (1430mw)
2.9W RDTech 9mm SH032

450nm: 150mw OSRAM single mode 450nm lab
200mw Lazerer OSRAM single mode 450nm

405nm: 100mw WL E3 (85mw)
500mw 405nm O-like lab
500mw 405nm Jayrob SS (560mw)

3x Shinp 650/532nm/445nm 250+100+300mw Light show (modified to include the 445)

numbers in () are average run for 1 min IR filtered

Last edited by plexus; 12-13-2011 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:08 PM #281
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
Well that actually makes some sense. In that case, I would still encourage you to send one final email where you very clearly say "I want an RMA as stated in your policy."
- Otherwise, they might claim that it wasn't clear that you were only interested in an RMA, and might claim that their policy wasn't engaged.
I have requested an RMA with every email sent to them...I believe they number five to date.

In response to the satisfaction guarantee....define a portable unit...I reviewed the ad for the laser I bought and nowhere did it say it was a portable unit.

These guys are clearly shady...do they sell a non portable unit???

I am waiting for an RMA, if they don't issue one I will end up with a refund AND a laser to boot? I asked my CC if I would be required to send the laser back if a final award was found in my favor....basically, yes, but only at their expense. They will be required to arrange pickup from the point pf delivery. I don't see that happening but maybe they will....they are really digging themselves a deep hole. It simply doesn't make any sense...they lose big time on a forum like this. They lose reputation AND their product when they do this stuff.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:21 PM #282
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

^^^

Conceivably a portable unit is one you can move around. so everything they sell is portable. the statement is neither relevant nor defined.

I will likely ask for a dispute opened tomorrow but I will give them until tomorrow to respond. Likely even if they respond I will open a CC dispute because really, why should I have to bother with this. they would have 45 days to resolve the issue once the dispute is open and so the later i leave it the less i have leverage. having the dispute open even if they do issue an RMA puts pressure on them to follow through. normally I wouldn't use this tactic if a company does right when the issue is initiated with them. but that this point I feel its leverage I need to have in order to protect myself. alas.
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All together too many lasers:
650nm: 5mw pointer (early)
250mw O-like OL-CR-250 (170mw)

635nm: 500mw pointer rhd build 18650 SH-032 (650mw)
500mw O-like lab

532nm: 100mw SH032 DX module pointer (120mw)
150mw tri Lights Lab (260mw)
600mw Wicked Lasers Spyder III Krypton first gen

473nm 50mw Ultra Lasers Labby (over spec 160mw)
488nm 80mw Multi-line AL60X Argon
445nm: 1.3W Flaminpyro SS (1350mw) 1.4W
Wannaburn Super-small SS (1430mw)
2.9W RDTech 9mm SH032

450nm: 150mw OSRAM single mode 450nm lab
200mw Lazerer OSRAM single mode 450nm

405nm: 100mw WL E3 (85mw)
500mw 405nm O-like lab
500mw 405nm Jayrob SS (560mw)

3x Shinp 650/532nm/445nm 250+100+300mw Light show (modified to include the 445)

numbers in () are average run for 1 min IR filtered
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:47 AM #283
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

hello, everyone, I have hastened our after-sale to deal this, and the processing is going, you know, when you are in day, we are night, so, there should be some delay, and this time, we should be meet at the end, thanks for you all keep eyes on the event, and I believe we should be turn out to be reliable. It is a sorrow to ship Jmillerdoc and plexus laser with flaw, and this troubled you too much, I apologize for our unintentional mistakes. As you mentioned above " portable", I clarify it, we will refund you or ship you another qualified laser, don't worry about that.
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:53 AM #284
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

ok LPKath, looking forward to it. canyou please tell them to pack it well. nothing should be able to shift around. there should br a good amount of bubblw wrap all around the laser, not just one layer - at least 4 layers and more to make things not shift.
__________________
All together too many lasers:
650nm: 5mw pointer (early)
250mw O-like OL-CR-250 (170mw)

635nm: 500mw pointer rhd build 18650 SH-032 (650mw)
500mw O-like lab

532nm: 100mw SH032 DX module pointer (120mw)
150mw tri Lights Lab (260mw)
600mw Wicked Lasers Spyder III Krypton first gen

473nm 50mw Ultra Lasers Labby (over spec 160mw)
488nm 80mw Multi-line AL60X Argon
445nm: 1.3W Flaminpyro SS (1350mw) 1.4W
Wannaburn Super-small SS (1430mw)
2.9W RDTech 9mm SH032

450nm: 150mw OSRAM single mode 450nm lab
200mw Lazerer OSRAM single mode 450nm

405nm: 100mw WL E3 (85mw)
500mw 405nm O-like lab
500mw 405nm Jayrob SS (560mw)

3x Shinp 650/532nm/445nm 250+100+300mw Light show (modified to include the 445)

numbers in () are average run for 1 min IR filtered
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Old 12-14-2011, 02:21 AM #285
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

surely, I am glad to do that.
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Old 12-14-2011, 04:18 AM #286
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

I just want to thank Kath publicly for attempting to reconcile these problems. Kath, you have been in every way very helpful and considerate and I appreciate this very much. Unfortunately the service dept has not been so helpful. Thanks for attempting to intervene on my behalf, I do hope this comes to a reasonable end.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:39 AM #287
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

I just received a PM from Kath stating they have all my information and will be mailing me some forms to fill out to get the return underway. I will keep everyone here informed on how this turns out...I an leaving my dispute open with the CC company until it is finalized.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:54 AM #288
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Default Re: GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

after a bit of thought i emailed service at laserman to cancel my order yesterday. i haven't heard anything so far after 24 hrs.
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10 hene tubes 2 argon ion units and lots of diode and dpss lasers in these wavelengths:
405,445,450,458,473,488,532,543,594,612,632,635,650,685,780
I'm rebuilding my collection:
Skyray 405 12x
kryton groove gitd 445
B&W Tek 473 lab laser
JDSU 2214-40 multiline argon ion
Osram pl520 in an sh-032 host
Skylaser HL532-300
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Opnext 638 single mode in c6 host
Rayfoss 650 150mW
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