GB: 1W 520nm diode information/giveaway

madmacmo said:

I am not mad about the possible loss of this diode or any loss of money, rather I am disappointed, upset and bothered when someone previously so well respected fails a test of integrity, as diodes and things are soon forgotten, but twisting words, making excuses and failing to own what is of your making will not soon dim from our collective memories.

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You talking about me or andy?

Because that is not a fair statement to make. I was given the offer for someone else to collect more data on the diode, I took that opportunity since, after all the purpose for the GB was to get as much data as possible on the diode that was not provided on the datasheet. I've done this before with the PL520 GB, only then it went smoothly with the postal system.

Did I forget about the diode at times? Yes. This took longer than expected and I when I had to go back to school it was not on my mind at all. I updated the thread when asked what the status was, and other than that there was not much else I could do.
I'm not sure what I did to earn the twisting words sentiment though, I gave the updates as I got them, at times I was just as in the dark as everyone else because Andy didn't reply to PM's and emails.

I admit I could have ran this better, if I had to do this again I would've bought more cylindrical optics to do the testing in house, and I would've made it a murder fund rather than a giveaway.

I think you guys are being overly harsh on ARG. In the first post, he explicitly says,

ARG said:

The only thing you are guaranteed to receive for participating in this GB is information on the new diodes.

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That being said, there was an understanding that someone would receive the diode. However, that was by no means guaranteed. What if the diode we received had been defective? What if it had gone out right at the recommended operating current as described in the sheet? Then no one would have gotten it and no one could be mad about that either (well, except ARG probably would have messaged the people he got it from, but if they said no, then we would have been screwed either way).

The fact that it was lost in the post is a shame and a lesson to be learned from, but no one should have expected a diode. That was not the purpose of this GB. The purpose of this GB, first and foremost, was to gather information on a new diode. It's a shame the information came a bit late, but the purpose was fulfilled. The secondary reason was to give someone a diode. But NO ONE should expect that diode, and it is unfair to do so. ARG put in a lot of his own time, and I assume money, and I am sure he is just as disappointed in how this turned out as the rest of us are. Quit being selfish and realize that if you wanted your own diode, you should have paid to get one yourself. You paid for the advancement of the hobby, not to put a laser in your box.

madmacmo said:

Please explain how you equate "diode died from tests" to be the same as "diode lost in shipment". Then explain to the contributors how this is now their understanding, as well.


Question to both you and Andy - What would be your response to a member that sold you a laser, that did not send it with tracking, that did not insure it, and when it became evident it was lost in shipping in turn made this same statement to you?


"information/giveaway" - copied directly from this thread's (your) title - please explain how the contributors should feel about you having omitted "giveaway" within your statement above in regards for what motivated them most to join this group buy versus what you are now stating they are to receive for their money.


Choose your words carefully as the contributors who had placed their trust in you will most assuredly have great interest in how you respond.



I am comfortable with what I have said and I stand by my remarks.

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I am in 100% agreement with the above post. This issue is now about integrity, accountability and respect....and I am most curious as to the response.

madmacmo said:

Please explain how you equate "diode died from tests" to be the same as "diode lost in shipment". Then explain to the contributors how this is now their understanding, as well.

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It's not the same, and I never said it was; please don't put words into my mouth. I compared them because they were similar "shit happens" scenarios. They are different in that this shit could have been prevent, but that still doesn't change that it happened.

madmacmo said:

Question to both you and Andy - What would be your response to a member that sold you a laser, that did not send it with tracking, that did not insure it, and when it became evident it was lost in shipping in turn made this same statement to you?

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That entirely depends on the agreement made before hand, which in this situation there was the assumption it would be sent with tracking, since it was said "I'll get you the tracking number". I've had laser sent to me before without tracking in the understanding it would be my loss.
I may have shipped the diode untracked to Andy, but I shipped it with a service I know is reliable (I've shipped over 120 packages using this method without a single loss) and I got the diode to Andy.
I have no idea what the reliability of the service he sent back the diode with is. It was my responsibility to get the diode to him, and I did that. It was his responsibility to get the diode back to me and (so far) it hasn't happened.

madmacmo said:

"information/giveaway" - copied directly from this thread's (your) title - please explain how the contributors should feel about you having omitted "giveaway" within your statement above in regards for what motivated them most to join this group buy versus what you are now stating they are to receive for their money.

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Copied directly from the original post:

ARG said:

Please note:
The only thing you are guaranteed to receive for participating in this GB is information on the new diodes.

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It was always a risk that there would never be a giveaway at the end. If the participants failed to read and understand the risks when signing up that is their problem, not mine. That condition has been a term for all of the three diode GB's I've ran, it's not like it changed just for this one.

madmacmo said:

I am comfortable with what I have said and I stand by my remarks.

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And I stand by mine.

Wolfman29 said:

The fact that it was lost in the post is a shame and a lesson to be learned from, but no one should have expected a diode. That was not the purpose of this GB. The purpose of this GB, first and foremost, was to gather information on a new diode. It's a shame the information came a bit late, but the purpose was fulfilled. The secondary reason was to give someone a diode. But NO ONE should expect that diode, and it is unfair to do so. ARG put in a lot of his own time, and I assume money, and I am sure he is just as disappointed in how this turned out as the rest of us are. Quit being selfish and realize that if you wanted your own diode, you should have paid to get one yourself. You paid for the advancement of the hobby, not to put a laser in your box.

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I don't think anyone is selfishly expecting the diode, but everyone paid for the info and shares in the giveaway, personal reasons for joining the GB shouldn't matter. I'm sure some ppl paid extra $ because of the shares and I have doubts that this GB would have been funded without them.

The tester wasn't even brought into the equation until after the diode was bought and it didn't really seem like we had a choice in the matter but no one really complained since we trust ARG and the more data the better.

What isn't fair in all of this is ARG and Andy made mistakes sending the diode without insurance, and now if it is lost in shipment everyone else has to pay for a mistake that isn't there's.

Let's not get to up in arms yet though, the diode could still show.

TheDukeAnumber1 said:

The tester wasn't even brought into the equation until after the diode was bought and it didn't really seem like we had a choice in the matter but no one really complained since we trust ARG and the more data the better.

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Andy actually approached me offering to do optical tests on the diode when this thread was linked over on PL.

TheDukeAnumber1 said:

Let's not get to up in arms yet though, the diode could still show.

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Question for everyone then, what's a reasonable amount of time to wait? There's still $101.72 left over (minus the shipping costs to the winner if the diode every arrives) from this GB as the price of the diode was dropping as money was still being raised. The remainder will be donated to LPF, but when is it time to call it officially lost?

What do you Canadians think?

I've had packages take up to 8 weeks, which is this Monday. Wait 10 weeks then?

According the Andy the post services there have been terrible, reviving packages in July that were sent in February. Post has been normal here though.

Waiting another 3-4 weeks aren´t a big deal any longer before declaring it as lost. In the meantime someone else may be able to do some more testing.

IMO a draw should be done anyway. Alex and Andy may be able to offer a small price

I'm not sure that's such a good idea. Then it's XYZ's diode that was lost, instead of the GB's diode.

Give ARG a break. At least he organized this in the first place, before any real testing had been done on the diode.

Also, why do you even care, bubonic? You dont have any money in this at all.

If you are going to get up in arms at anyone, be so at the tester who a) didnt do testing and b) sent a 1000$ (at the time) diode without tracking

BubonicCronic said:

Did you provide the optical test information you promised and guaranteed? No.

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Get your facts straight and don't put words into my mouth. I never guaranteed we would get the optical test results.

BubonicCronic said:

It was not your place to make decisions with other people's property.

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I disagree.

When I ran this GB, and the past 473nm diode GB I had to make decisions about how far to push the diode without killing it. I had to make the decision about the amount of useful data received vs the risk.
The risk of sending the diode to Andy for more useful data was very low, and that's what I did.

BubonicCronic said:

They also didnt know you sent it without tracking or insurance. You have to own that.

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I did before, did I not?

In case you wanted it in formal writing: I ARG of LPF own up to the fact that I sent the diode to Andy without tracking or insurance. This was negligent of me and I apologize.

Edit: Just to clarify for the people who may not be caught up, the diode arrived to Andy. The diode was lost in transit when it was being sent from Andy back to me.

BubonicCronic said:

I've made my point numerous times. You wont even take partial blame.

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Again with the facts, please get them right. Where I was in the wrong I have taken the blame.

ARG said:

That was partly my fault.

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BubonicCronic said:

You alone made the decision to send it to Andy regardless of any tracking issue.

your failed judgment to take it on yourself to send it to Andy without consulting the GB members.

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I thought I already explained this. Yes I did send it to Andy, and I did so without consulting anyone. Do I think that it was wrong of me to do so? No, but you clearly do. That it where our argument is, a difference of opinions. It was my opinion I was allowed to make decisions for the diode on behalf of the group, and it is of your opinion that I was not allowed to make decisions for the diode on behalf of the group. The facts on both sides of the argument have been presented and we'll just have to let others form their own opinion on this now.

Running a GB is a real PITA....Many things can...and DO go wrong....as they do in life !! Lotsa work....and risk....but....gratitude from members when it goes right.
I will NEVER run a GB !! And....If I did...."Transparency"....would be of utmost importance....that....and a group consensus WHENEVER possible. When one takes on the yoke of a GB...one takes on a very heavy burden of responsibility and full accountability.

ARG...unfortunately....IMHO...your actions and decisions fall much more on the BED side of the line.

This issue is NOT about a stink'in diode....I could care less....it is about owning up to one's actions and decisions.

Added Note: The actions and decisions from Andy 97.....well....THEY were complete BS....yes....you did not know this was going to unfold as it did....but....it did.....and.....fair or not.....you are associated with his choices.