405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

WannaBurn said:

Theres a trick to the lenses when using 6x and axiz acrylics, which im sure has probably been figured out by a few...

Click to expand...

You tease . . . . .

Peace,
dave

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

WannaBurn said:

I think it took IgorT something like 24hrs to melt a small hole in the acrylic. Ive been running my 6x's now at 190mA at most. At this current im seeing 200mW after the lens, the modules are mounted in a z-bolt heatsink and the unit gets pretty warm.

I put together a leadlight pen and am running it at 180mA, my next will be up around 210mA for my personal use pointer. My first 6x was running at 225mA in a DX labby heatsink, it lasted a while until I fed it over 270mA or so.....$375. Canadian later..... :

[highlight]Theres a trick to the lenses when using 6x and axiz acrylics, which im sure has probably been figured out by a few...[/highlight]

Click to expand...

Everybody knows about opening up the back of the lens, but please do tell of this 'trick' that you speak of!
Jay

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

there is a trick. get a glass AR coated Igor's lens,

you can't NOT burn acrylic lens with enough power over time. Plastic will simply change due to heat and even on microscopic level deformations will be affecting the beam.

btw, i hate cutting out back of acrylic lens.

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

The ones I received from DX pop right out...no cutting is necessary. But prying the plastic piece out of an Aixiz is a pain.

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

 While some tricks will be taken to my grave :, I will share a simple one... To cut the rear of the lens with ease, do the following..

Take an empty blank, thread the lens in backwards until its almost all the way in. Take a nice sharp straight razor and just slice the  end off I can do 20 in 5mins, and I only use the blanks from Axiz which are a pain any other way. No need to pick at it etc, etc. The retaining plastic ring stays in place and the diode sees more of the lens

To get the other trick, someones gonna have to throw me a beating ;D


BTW, welcome back Gazoo! I still have the first PM's between you and I from over a year ago when I hadnt the faintest clue... :-/

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

WannaBurn said:

 While some tricks will be taken to my grave :, I will share a simple one... To cut the rear of the lens with ease, do the following..

Take an empty blank, thread the lens in backwards until its almost all the way in. Take a nice sharp straight razor and just slice the  end off I can do 20 in 5mins, and I only use the blanks from Axiz which are a pain any other way. No need to pick at it etc, etc. The retaining plastic ring stays in place and the diode sees more of the lens

To get the other trick, someones gonna have to throw me a beating ;D


BTW, welcome back Gazoo!  I still have the first PM's between you and I from over a year ago when I hadnt the faintest clue... :-/

Click to expand...

What's your address? : ;D

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

WannaBurn said:

 While some tricks will be taken to my grave :, I will share a simple one... To cut the rear of the lens with ease, do the following..

Take an empty blank, thread the lens in backwards until its almost all the way in. Take a nice sharp straight razor and just slice the  end off I can do 20 in 5mins, and I only use the blanks from Axiz which are a pain any other way. No need to pick at it etc, etc. The retaining plastic ring stays in place and the diode sees more of the lens

To get the other trick, someones gonna have to throw me a beating ;D


BTW, welcome back Gazoo!  I still have the first PM's between you and I from over a year ago when I hadnt the faintest clue... :-/

Click to expand...

Let it out man... It feels good to share! Seems like you kind of wanted to tell us by bringing it up...

No pressure though. But I enjoy sharing things that I learn or figure out on my own. As lots of others do!

I was also helped with a lot of information from Gazoo (and others) when I was new. (thanks Gazoo!) But I guess it doesn't matter that much about the AixiZ acrylic lenses and 6X diodes. Because were going to be getting Igor's 405nm glass lenses fit for AixiZ soon enough...

But anyway, this is a great community for sharing knowledge! That's why I'll answer questions if I can, and I don't hold back from asking questions about things that interest me!
Jay

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Lol, "let it out" this feels like therapy I usually share goodies and things ive learnt through PM's. We all have our little secrets that only a few may know. People who have directly helped me are always welcome. There are a few members here that I often discuss my findings with and vise versa. I save the good stuff, as they do , in the same mannor.

Some of the things I have figured out I post, but I gotz to have my own personal stash  Plus, a little teaser never hurt...

Someone will figure it out sooner or later :

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

One question: Should we post how many lenses we want to buy? Is it some kind of reservation? Or will IgorT open a new thread and we have to be fast to buy one?

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

blackday said:

One question: Should we post how many lenses we want to buy? Is it some kind of reservation? Or will IgorT open a new thread and we have to be fast to buy one?

Click to expand...

I know that 55 pages is a lot to read, but at least read the last few pages. IgorT will make a new thread when the time comes. There is no need for a "feeler" thread any more. The deal will go through eventually. At that time IgorT will make a "buy" thread to replace the "feeler" thread.

Take the time to learn the terminology

Peace,
dave

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Leaving the little back plate on the Aixiz (style) lens does decrease the power some, but it also cleans up the nasty blu-ray diode beam a bit since they like to put out more of a bar/oval shape rather than a round dot.

Also, this is one of the problems that Igor is toiling over in his head.... one lens puts out more power, but doesn't look as nice for blu-ray due to the poor beam characterstics of the diode ("#2" of the latest group of lenses).  The other lens loses some power (while still increasing slightly under 20% vs an acrylic lens!), but also cleans up the beam for a nicer profile ("#1" of the latest group of lenses).

Anyway, for those who are severely lacking on the latest info from Igor, start at this post and read through (Igor's) posts on the next few pages, that'll get you caught up on info for the lenses we're considering (click on "Quote from IgorT"):

IgorT said:

OMG!


People.... Stock up on LensPens....

Click to expand...

You can get the latest info if you read up to about page 45. Also, some extra info for the lenses:

Manufacturer 5:
- Lens #1 - WORKS!
- Lens #2 - WORKS even better!
- Lens #3 - increases the power the most, but has gaps in the beam - probably rejects from the high quality version. Not suitable for our needs, luckily this one was free. They were probably hoping that we don't need quality and that they could sell their rejects. The quality version costs twice as much as the first two of their lenses.


So we are now actually at lens 7-9, and v7 (Lens #1) & v8 (Lens #2) are the best so far.... The latter increasing the power the most.

We will go with the 8th custom lens attempt, for max power and thinnest beam. But i am hoping i can also order some of the first lens, because it makes a "cleaner" spot, due to the medium NA clipping the ugly edges of the fast axis, and creates a "fatter" beam..

Lens #2 will bring out all there is, so the spot shape will depend ONLY on the diode output shape. It's the only way to get all the power out, and means, that diodes with a weird shape output will create weird shape spots... As diodes get better, so will the spots..


It is usual in pointers to go for a lossy option, such as clipping the output with a low NA of the lens, to make the spot rounder, cleaner and prettier.
- An AixiZ lens for example actually makes a pretty nice, rounded off spot, due to the low NA of 0.3...
- Lens #1 creates a flatter spot, but still with a slightly rounded off fast axis, because the NA is 0.4.
- Lens #2 has a NA of 0.55 and brings out the entire output and creates a spot in the same shape.

Click to expand...

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Bump (for the latest arrivals...)

Traveller said:

... I'm not really sure anymore if you are going to choose one or the other...

Click to expand...

Okay... now I'm up to speed, or at least mostly up to speed. I'll up my order to four (4) of the lenses*. Since you stated that these lenses would only be available via group buys, better safe than sorry  

*The lens being number 8 of the 9 tested (aka no. 2 of the "final three", aka broadband, aka one bad-ass mofo, aka who else knows what). This based on what I read a, ah, "few pages back"...:



Just to clear one thing up. There won't be two types of coatings. We could afford two types with any of the first six lenses, but not with these. Luckily these have a broadband coating, which is very good at just around 405nm and 660nm. I did a comparison with a lens coated specifically for 405nm, and there is less than one percent of a difference, resulting from the difference in reflections.

So the broadband is more than just good enough, especially since as it is, the lens brings more of an increase than expected. When i thought the number would be under 20%, 0.8% more could bring it a bit closer.... But we are over 20% even for diodes with the lowest losses in acrylics.

And if one lens can do both, it's both cheaper, less complicated and more practical for everyone...

So we will have one universal lens instead of two. There is no need to specify the coating, because the best lens so far comes with a 400-700nm coating. Basically, everyone just needs to figure out how many they want. They will work with any visible wavelength diode, reducing reflections to less than 1% on average and even less with reds and blu rays...
--------------------------------------------------



It's been like this..
Manufacturer 1:
- v1 - the original custom lens, 30 pieces - FAIL - spherical abberations

Manufacturer 2:
- Doesn't even pick up the phone anymore unless caught off guard, in which case they say "next week".

"Manufacturer" 3:
- v2 - first custom lens rescue attempt, 2 samples - FAIL - bubble gum lens?
- v3 - second rescue attempt, 2 samples - WORKS! Oh wait, no it doesn't? Wait, now it does? - FAIL - astigmatic lens/low quality


At this point i realized i was relying too much on too few manufacturers, and went nuts, and started searching for other options, by writing and calling more than ten new manufacturers.

I found:

"Manufacturer" 3's actual manufacturer:
- v4 - third resue attempt, one sample - FAIL - this is a lens?  :-/
- v5 - fourth rescue attempt, one sample  - FAIL - this was the first lens that was scratched before i got my hands on it, seems like it was made like this :-?
- v6 - fifth rescue attempt, one sample - FAIL - could almost work, has holes in the beam, quality too low


From the whole bunch v3 and v6 were the best, and yet they were horrible...  :'(
v1 was and still is the highest quality lens (precision machined lens), but it's spherical, and as such useless for us.
Here end the cheap lenses.

Luckily i also found:


Manufacturer 4:
- wanted to send representatives from France and Germany for a tour of my company, and to convince me to buy quality lenses at 68 EURO each for one piece and 40 EURO each for up to 500 pieces. They said we could talk about the price, once we get to larger quantities. They just didn't seem to understand that 250 pieces is a HUGE quantity for us... But i did get some usefull info.


Manufacturer 5:
- Lens #1 - WORKS!
- Lens #2 - WORKS even better!
- Lens #3 - increases the power the most, but has gaps in the beam - probably rejects from the high quality version. Not suitable for our needs, luckily this one was free. They were probably hoping that we don't need quality and that they could sell their rejects. The quality version costs twice as much as the first two of their lenses.


So we are now actually at lens 7-9, and v7 (Lens #1) & v8 (Lens #2) are the best so far.... The latter increasing the power the most.

We will go with the 8th custom lens attempt, for max power and thinnest beam. But i am hoping i can also order some of the first lens, because it makes a "cleaner" spot, due to the medium NA clipping the ugly edges of the fast axis, and creates a "fatter" beam..

Lens #2 will bring out all there is, so the spot shape will depend ONLY on the diode output shape. It's the only way to get all the power out, and means, that diodes with a weird shape output will create weird shape spots... As diodes get better, so will the spots..

It is usual in pointers to go for a lossy option, such as clipping the output with a low NA of the lens, to make the spot rounder, cleaner and prettier.
- An AixiZ lens for example actually makes a pretty nice, rounded off spot, due to the low NA of 0.3...
- Lens #1 creates a flatter spot, but still with a slightly rounded off fast axis, because the NA is 0.4.
- Lens #2 has a NA of 0.55 and brings out the entire output and creates a spot in the same shape.
--------------------------------------------------



These [last three lens samples] are high quality precision grade aspherics. Unlike all the others, these were designed for laser diodes. They even have diode window thickness compensation! Other than collimating the beam, their shape also undistorts the spherical abberations caused by the diode window! These are diffraction limited lenses! Lenses where the size of the foused spot depends only on the wavelength! These are lenses, that could write a disk!
--------------------------------------------------



And finally, a nice synopsis:
NA
Lens #1: 0.40
Lens #2: 0.55
Lens #3: 0.60

FL
Lens #1: 6.30 mm
Lens #2: 4.56 mm
Lens #3: 4.02 mm

Coating
Lens#1:  405nm and 660nm
Lens #2: 405nm and 660nm
Lens #3: 408nm

Power Output Improvement (Based on a 6x diode and Aixiz acrylic lens)
Lens #1: +16.6 %
Lens #2: +24.2 %
Lens #3:   No Data

Power Output Improvement (Based on a high wavelength PHR diode and Aixiz acrylic lens)
Lens #1: +17.5 %
Lens #2: +26.0 %
Lens #3: +26.0 %

Focusing and Burning (Data still to be properly valuated)
Lens #1:  Good?
Lens #2:  Some focusing and burning - less than a long FL?
--------------------------------------------------

I use hot knife to cu out big hole on the back of aixiz lens. I just hate exposing it as dirt always falls on both sides of lens and its a pain or impossible to completely clean. The less you need to handle this little lens, the better.

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

strange, what you people do to those poor aixiz lenses!
first of all, i test them from time to time with opened end and "stock". the difference is sometimes barely measureable, and always less than 5% (i dont have my numbers in front of me). seeing as how my 200mw red looks almost as bright as my 370mw, its just not worth for me. i leave the small hole in favor of a nicer dot.
people seem to be scared of the tiny hole.. look through a stock and an opened lens from the front-end: you dont see a big difference at all in the apparent aperture-diameter!

how i do it to remove/open the aixiz lenses: i screw the lens into the housing untill its flush (not less, not more!), use a plastic pen and a piece of tissue paper to punch the lens right into the housing. i even tried that with an ar coated acrylic, *no* scratches! you then have the ring and lens out and can mess with the aperture as you like.
i do that to harvest the empty nut, to glue other lenses in for testing.

perhaps i should make the hole smaller, so there are no "wings" on a red, with as little loss as possible? i'll think about it!

anyway, it takes guessed 5kg pressure, but after the lens is opened, it is easy to open/close again. approx 10 lenses opened so far, at the beginning not even with tissue in between, and no scratches (with jewellers loupe) visible.

..and i find it strange to share "secrets" with "the right guys" only.. i know many great helpful people here which i had no conversation with yet. what the heck, knowledge for everyone!

manuel

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Come to think of it, I've never even done a build with an AixiZ acrylic that has not had the back opened...

I guess it's because when I was new, I had read that a red will begin to melt the plastic, so from the beginning I always opened the back of the lens.

The AR coated lenses that are fit for AixiZ found on e-bay which give 10% more power over AixiZ acrylic (for reds) already have the back opened up!

The are also a nice 'host nut' for swapping out other lenses of the same diameter to try in an AixiZ module because the lens retainer ring presses in and out easily... (a Meredith acrylic for example will fit in, as well as being able to put an AixiZ acrylic, or this AR coated acrylic into a Meredtih module)
Jay
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Plastic-Collimat...ItemQQimsxZ20090220?IMSfp=TL090220123001r1848

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

yes, i have some of these lenses here too, from virtualvillage. saw them for 1us$ each, price varies. beware of non-combined shipping!
for reds, those are my preferred lenses. until igor's lenses, that will be!

manuel