405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

i will want 3

and i think i missed the price range could you update me

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

daguin said:

[quote author=IgorT link=1212842385/280#294 date=1218850824]
But if they should think it's too much hassle for a few lenses, i was thinking we could first make a mini GB first..
This would be for those of us, who don't care about the  exact percentage, but just want the best lens for their blu rays.
I know at least a few of us would probably like this, and we could get the final lenses sooner this way.

Click to expand...

**shivers with excitement**[/quote]
I shiver with you my friend

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

as do i!

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

I am not on the list :-/ Is there a list for the multi AR coated lenses? I don't see one...

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

So you'll be doing a mini group buy? When do you plan on doing this?

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Ok, i FINALLY got an answer, after waiting for weeks. I was beginning to think they are ignoring me!  

They say they can make it fit the AixiZ lens nut! This could be good for the total price per lens.
I demanded a small number of lenses reduced to 7mm and coated for blu, before making the big order. I can't afford that all over again. Need to know all is good first.


So they will just have to throw a few lenses into the coating machine with a different order, an ship them to me.
If this works out, there will be no need for a mini GB, as i will know for sure how they behave in the standard lens nuts.

It would be much better this way, since the lenses in a quantity of 20 would cost a multiple of what they would cost in a quantity of >200.

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Artix said:

I am not on the list :-/ Is there a list for the multi AR coated lenses? I don't see one...

Click to expand...

Yeah, i forgot to update the list.. I've been way too busy trying to make up for the losses with the first lens.
I will do so now. I need to know how many potential orders there are at the moment, so i can give the number to the manufacturer for the price anyway..


But i don't know where to put you, Artix....

With the previous manufacturer, they told me the multilayer was suitable for all wavelengths..
But i just learned, that this manufacturer's multilayer is most suitable for blu rays. It achieves less than 0.2% reflections. At the same time it is not suitable for reds.

The alternatives are a broadband coating 400-700nm R<1% and 450-650 R<0.5%...


What this means is, that if the same lens ends up being used for both wavelengths, it won't be as good for blu as it could be.... If the 450-650 is selected for reds, it won't work for blu rays, but would be best for reds. If the 400-700 is selected for reds, it could also be used for blu. It wouldn't be absolutelly perfect, but when it comes to the difference betweem 1% and 0.2%, while the broadband would have five times as much reflected light, the practical difference might not be so big. It's about 1mW or so..


This is something that can be calculated, but i'm hoping i can test it too.



EDIT: Ok, the list is updated. I think i got everyone...

Artix: I put you down for broadband, and i'll see what i can do about it..

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Thanks Igor! I am glad to see I am still on the list for 2 lenses!

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

put me down for 2 405nm

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

OK here's something interesting. I'll post a link to the auction and then let the discussion begin.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bluray-Laser-Di...39:1|66:1|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

It is my thought that he's using the lens inside the 803t sled and focusing it from further out than the aixiz nut will allow focusing. it's possible if this is a solution I can make the threads longer in my barrels to allow for using these. just thinking in text.

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

How much are these going to probably end up costing each? I don't want to commit too quite a few and then have to back out or break the bank..

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Nice find Kenom, but I think if it corrects the dot, it would need to be oriented to the axis of the diode, so when you screw in in and out to focus, you lose the round dot.  Also if it needs to be about twice as far form the source to focus, light will likely be lost over the lens edge.  That's why very close is best.   Of course these are guesses.

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

No I would agree with you... but I'm far from an optics expert.

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

IgorT said:

[quote author=Artix link=1212842385/300#307 date=1219787366]I am not on the list :-/ Is there a list for the multi AR coated lenses? I don't see one...

Click to expand...

Yeah, i forgot to update the list.. I've been way too busy trying to make up for the losses with the first lens.
I will do so now. I need to know how many potential orders there are at the moment, so i can give the number to the manufacturer for the price anyway..


But i don't know where to put you, Artix....

With the previous manufacturer, they told me the multilayer was suitable for all wavelengths..
But i just learned, that this manufacturer's multilayer is most suitable for blu rays. It achieves less than 0.2% reflections. At the same time it is not suitable for reds.

The alternatives are a broadband coating 400-700nm R<1% and 450-650 R<0.5%...


What this means is, that if the same lens ends up being used for both wavelengths, it won't be as good for blu as it could be.... If the 450-650 is selected for reds, it won't work for blu rays, but would be best for reds. If the 400-700 is selected for reds, it could also be used for blu. It wouldn't be absolutelly perfect, but when it comes to the difference betweem 1% and 0.2%, while the broadband would have five times as much reflected light, the practical difference might not be so big. It's about 1mW or so..


This is something that can be calculated, but i'm hoping i can test it too.



EDIT: Ok, the list is updated. I think i got everyone...

Artix: I put you down for broadband, and i'll see what i can do about it..[/quote]

THANKS!!!  ;D A 1mW loss isn't bad at all, IMO. I'll take the broadband!

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

Kenom said:

It is my thought that he's using the lens inside the 803t sled and focusing it from further out than the aixiz nut will allow focusing.  it's possible if this is a solution I can make the threads longer in my barrels to allow for using these.   just thinking in text.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a lens from the sled. I've seen people selling those. But they are worthless for us. They can't work by themselves, just as part of an optics train. Most of you have the sleds, so you can dig them out and test them yourself.


Another seller, who is also a member here is selling the exact same thing on ebay (but cheaper), claiming that "no blu ray is lost" because of the coating, but that the lens has to be further away than an AixiZ module allows.

The light cone spreads so fast, when it comes out of the diode, that it actually hits the threads in the head of the AixiZ module with the wider axis, before it can leave the head.  A lens has to capture all of it before the cone spreads so much, that it misses the lense's effective diameter. Basically, it has to be quite a bit deeper than where the light hits the threads.

If you only use one such long FL lens, then almost "all blu ray is lost". The only reason the beam is round and not flat, is just because most of the uneven light cone misses the lens, and the round lens captures only the round middle of the light cone, producing a perfectly round beam, but with only a part of the total power. We actually want a flat beam in this case, as quite a bit of the power is in those sides of the output.


Now this is either capitalizing on partial knowledge, or it's simply scamming. It's impossible to reach a higher power with a lens so far away. The long FL reduces the NA of the lens dramatically. The power would actually be lower, than with a standard plastic lens.

Even with the standard AixiZ lens, the power changes if you simply change the focus a little for burning. It's not much, but you can see the difference on the meter. That's why i insisted on fixed focus for the calibration lasers..

For example, i just measured my 6x at 202mW with a parallel beam, and then i focused it so the beam was focused for burning at 4 inches. The power went from 202mW to 197mW. That's 5mW difference from such a small position change.



The idea with increasing the power is not just coating. It's capturing as much of the cone as possible + coating. This mens the FL has to be as short as possible.

A good cheaper alternative would be a lens with the same properties as AixiZ, but coated. It still wouldn't capture all of the light, and some would be lost in the plastic material itself, but the power would increase by about 7%, because those are usualy the reflective losses on the two lens surfaces.

To further increase on that, you then need a shorter FL and a better material.

Re: 405nm AR glass lenses - fit AixiZ  FEELER

scopeguy20 said:

Nice find Kenom, but I think if it corrects the dot, it would need to be oriented to the axis of the diode, so when you screw in in and out to focus, you lose the round dot.  Also if it needs to be about twice as far form the source to focus, light will likely be lost over the lens edge.  That's why very close is best.   Of course these are guesses.

Click to expand...

You guessed correctly. If the beam was round from some sort of correction (like the beam circularizer in the 6x drive), the rotation would matter..

But in this case, the beam is round for the same reason it would be round if you passed it through a small round hole - everything that isn't round is lost and probably a little more on top.