Laser pointer forums - discuss laser pointers and laser technology. Read and write laser pointer reviews. Freely discuss companies that sell laser pointers.

Laser Pointers

Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums!

Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Green Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Blue Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Red Lasers
Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Yellow Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Purple Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Orange Lasers
Lasers Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Lasers Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Lasers Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes



Go Back   Laser Pointers > Lasers > Science & Lasers



green laser pointer
cnilaser
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-29-2010, 08:59 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2
Rep Power: 0
reif0037 is on a distinguished road
Default Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Hey expert laser guys and gals,
I am a medical student in need of some direction in terms of low level laser therapy for soft tissue (muscle/ligaments/fascia/etc).. As you might know there are a gizillion “cold laser” companies that charge in upwards of $20,000 for their equipment. If my undergrad physics still serves me correct, really the importance of a therapeutic laser is the wavelength and power (most studies have been done using lasers <300m, infrared). In theory would one of the 808nm laser pointers (High Power Laser Pointers | 808nm IR Laser Pointers | SKYlasers) or (InfraRed Laser Pointer --- IR Laser Pen ----- Viper Series Lasers :: Handheld Lasers :: Dragon Lasers) have similar therapeutic affects on soft tissue as some of the spot treatment studies? If I keep my treatments within the WALT’s dosage limits (http://www.walt.nu/images/stories/fi...-780-860nm.pdf) it still would be safe, right? I understand many studies use equipment with many lasers diodes but in generalities is my thinking correct? Thanks for your time.
reif0037 is offline   Reply With Quote












Old 01-29-2010, 09:25 PM   #2
Class 3B Laser
 
Hallucynogenyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spain, tarragona
Posts: 3,637
Rep Power: 196
Hallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond reputeHallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond reputeHallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond reputeHallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond reputeHallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond reputeHallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond reputeHallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond reputeHallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond reputeHallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond reputeHallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond reputeHallucynogenyc has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Hallucynogenyc
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

I have no real idea of the therapeutics uses of lasers, however, if you want cheap IR lasers, go O-like.com, they have a handheld 200mW 808nm laser under 50$ IIRC.
__________________
The difference between an ignorant and a wise is that the wise knows the limits of his knowledge while the ignorant ignores the limits of his ignorance.
Learn how to use Opera and tell me about your experience here!


Wicked Lasers Evolution Pro 130mW ------------------> Review
Rayfoss 150mW waterproof
Rayfoss 200mW focusable torch -----------------------> Review
Dealextreme 5mW true laser pointer
Dealextreme 50mW true laser pointer
Dealextreme 100mW true laser pointer
Laserlands 30mW disco laser --------------------------> Review
5mW pointers (many of them)
DX 200mW Red laser (Dilda) --------------------------> Review
120mW PHR custom build
200mW GGW custom build

Focalprice 7$ green&bluray laser goggles
Dealextreme tripod and clamp for laser holding -----> Review
DIY 3 motor Spirograph --------------------------------> Review
HLPM-2 laser power meter
Hallucynogenyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2010, 09:44 PM   #3
Class 1M Laser
 
zaery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 190
Rep Power: 10
zaery is a glorious beacon of lightzaery is a glorious beacon of lightzaery is a glorious beacon of lightzaery is a glorious beacon of lightzaery is a glorious beacon of lightzaery is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

I saw that since WALT seems reputable, then if you stay inside their 780-860nm and <500mW, keep the size of the laser dot and the amount of energy absorbed by the patient within their bounds for the specific application, then you're good.

Then again, I don't know anything about the medical uses of lasers and that chart was last updated 5 years ago, so I take no responsibility if your patient gets transported to a different dimension because of my advice.
__________________
Facts about you:
1) You are on the internet right now.
2) You are in the largest laser forum right now.
3) You are reading my signature.
5) You haven't noticed there wasn't a #4.
6) You just checked it.
7) Your smiling/giggling stupidly right now.
zaery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2010, 10:32 PM   #4
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In A State of Shock.
Posts: 11,886
Rep Power: 0
Tech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

There is some loose info floating around here. You'll have to search, its been a while. IR is invisible, so safety goggles are a must. I dont know if it would work well. If it did, I'm sure they would already be using cheap set ups.
Tech_Junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2010, 12:56 AM   #5
Class 4 Laser
 
Benm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,314
Rep Power: 198
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

I am unsure what possible health benefits these lasers can provide, but safety seems a very real problem here.

If you're talking about near-ir lasers (808 or 1064 nm or so), keep in mind that while hardly visible lasers of enough power (100s of mWs as i figure from this) pose a very serious eye hazard.

The combination of being hardly visible, yet properly collimated by the eye onto the retina is a recepi for disaster without protection.

Other tissues are less likely to suffer damage from such lasers - party because the power is very limited to start with.
__________________
Ask a Scientist <- Soon!
Ben's Electronics Projects
ScienceFlicks Science Videos <- Have a look
Benm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 05:01 PM   #6
Class 3R Laser
 
Bluefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,482
Rep Power: 58
Bluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

I've heard some stories that some of those medical laser treatments are nothing more than a placebo, so look up any proved effect of what you're looking for just to be sure.
A lot of wavelengths and powers can be easily made without spending huge amounts on medical lasers that do pretty much nothing more than a pointer with the right wavelength. A member may even be able to make a fancy looking device witht he right specs for a fraction of the price. Even I could.
So light is light, if a simple pointer has the same properties as an expenive unit, use it to your advantage.
Bluefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 09:09 PM   #7
Class 4 Laser
 
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,265
Rep Power: 568
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech_Junkie View Post
There is some loose info floating around here. You'll have to search, its been a while. IR is invisible, so safety goggles are a must. I dont know if it would work well. If it did, I'm sure they would already be using cheap set ups.
Why not use LEDs? The issue is wavelength and power, not coherence.
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 11:07 PM   #8
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In A State of Shock.
Posts: 11,886
Rep Power: 0
Tech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond reputeTech_Junkie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Laser treatment cost waaay more money LOL.
Tech_Junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 11:43 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0
zirdo is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Quote:
Originally Posted by reif0037 View Post
Hey expert laser guys and gals,
I am a medical student in need of some direction in terms of low level laser therapy for soft tissue (muscle/ligaments/fascia/etc).. As you might know there are a gizillion “cold laser” companies that charge in upwards of $20,000 for their equipment. If my undergrad physics still serves me correct, really the importance of a therapeutic laser is the wavelength and power (most studies have been done using lasers <300m, infrared). In theory would one of the 808nm laser pointers (High Power Laser Pointers | 808nm IR Laser Pointers | SKYlasers) or (InfraRed Laser Pointer --- IR Laser Pen ----- Viper Series Lasers :: Handheld Lasers :: Dragon Lasers) have similar therapeutic affects on soft tissue as some of the spot treatment studies? If I keep my treatments within the WALT’s dosage limits (http://www.walt.nu/images/stories/fi...-780-860nm.pdf) it still would be safe, right? I understand many studies use equipment with many lasers diodes but in generalities is my thinking correct? Thanks for your time.
You are correct, as long as the laser is focused out and not into a fine point it would be safe for that kind of use. The debate about the energy from a laser for medical and theraputic uses is no longer relavant because it has been proven affective many times over however, the latest debate about modulation or different frequencies being useful still stands and if you're still researching it you will see that is the biggest selling points with the high dollar ones.
zirdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 12:40 AM   #10
Class 4 Laser
 
Benm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,314
Rep Power: 198
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Why not use LEDs? The issue is wavelength and power, not coherence.
I suppose you have point there.. leds in the near-IR can be very efficient and operated at much higher power to cost ratio than lasers.

Perhaps the selling point of these therapies is that they use lasers, which sounds very high tech, advanced and precise. If you want to just get a whopping big load of near-IR light at a good price, power LED's would be the way to go.

But to be honest, i dont see any benefit in such near-ir treatment for most ailments. Any effect would be thermal with these wavelengths - not something very sophisticated since it essentially no more functional than a warm compress. On the other hand, if there is market demand for such treatments you could supply that with rather simple means.

One major advantage of such psychological effects is that they will work as long as the patient believes in it - no matter if your IR source is a LED, laser, or not even present at all.
__________________
Ask a Scientist <- Soon!
Ben's Electronics Projects
ScienceFlicks Science Videos <- Have a look
Benm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 02:46 PM   #11
Class 4 Laser
 
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,265
Rep Power: 568
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Most of the studies I've seen seem to support it, but none know why it works. (probably psychosomatic, but I don't know) I'll look into it further...
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2010, 01:32 AM   #12
Class 4 Laser
 
Benm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,314
Rep Power: 198
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Psychosomatic explanations should be viable.

But since this forum is about laser safety, all answers will still stand, regardless if there is any scientific merit to the beneficial effects of such therapies.
__________________
Ask a Scientist <- Soon!
Ben's Electronics Projects
ScienceFlicks Science Videos <- Have a look
Benm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2010, 07:05 PM   #13
Class 2M Laser
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 792
Rep Power: 121
LSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Non Surgical Laser treatment is a grey area out of control.

Start by looking for the NASA studies using LEDs, deep red at 660 nm, 750 nm red, and 880 nm red in COMBINATION, Those numbers are from memory and the 750 one may be way off. But the NASA 3 wavelength system had proven results for deep penetration treatment.

One vendor of a modified NASA device: Quantum Devices Inc

One other thing, laser devices are usually defocused. Why? because the spot size, if focused, is too small for deep penetration and may burn surface tissue. Coherent light does make it deeper into tissue then incoherent light.. If you spot size is too small, you can't get deep because a small piece of adsorptive tissue may get in your way.

Also look at optical tomography , the technology is similar in penetration depth.

I no longer have access to wonderful Scifinder Scholar to find you the Nasa study. Sorry!! I'm pretty sure its Marshall Space Center that did it.

Steve
LSRFAQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 12:05 AM   #14
Class 4 Laser
 
Benm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,314
Rep Power: 198
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSRFAQ View Post
Coherent light does make it deeper into tissue then incoherent light..
Am I missing something very obvious here, or... why?
__________________
Ask a Scientist <- Soon!
Ben's Electronics Projects
ScienceFlicks Science Videos <- Have a look
Benm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 04:09 PM   #15
Class 4 Laser
 
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,265
Rep Power: 568
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

I found a copy of it through my university database. The wavelengths are 680, 730, and 880nm. Is anyone going to sue me if I post a copy here?
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2010, 01:32 AM   #16
Class 4 Laser
 
Benm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,314
Rep Power: 198
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Not likely, but you can just put the pubmed link to the abstract here to be on the safe side
__________________
Ask a Scientist <- Soon!
Ben's Electronics Projects
ScienceFlicks Science Videos <- Have a look
Benm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2010, 05:18 PM   #17
Class 2M Laser
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 792
Rep Power: 121
LSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond reputeLSRFAQ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benm View Post
Am I missing something very obvious here, or... why?
Self focusing effects... And a much better scattering mechanism ..

Since its NASA sponsored, this is one of those loopholes where nobody is going to be so concerned, use the "educational use" loophole..

Steve
LSRFAQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 02:23 AM   #18
Class 4 Laser
 
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,265
Rep Power: 568
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Fine by me.

Here it is in a zip (forum doesn't accept large PDF)
Attached Files
File Type: zip 5662885.zip (806.1 KB, 137 views)
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2011, 01:49 AM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Rep Power: 0
ldelre is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

I'm glad to see some open minds here these days. One of the oldest LLLT sites is at laser therapy internet guide - LaserWorld - The Low Level Laser Therapy - LLLT - Internet Guide . It is the Swedish Medical Laser Society. Dr. Jan Tunér, a board member of WALT, co-wrote the first, big, thorough, laser therapy book for clinicians and doctors about fifteen years ago. On their main page, they have a link that says: Laser pointers for home use. The link goes to a book that tells people how to use laser pointers for home care. If laserpointerforums.com is a site that focuses on laser safety, you may need to come up with a policy statement about how far one may go in this direction. It is not a fad, it is a trend, and this board is going to become more inundated with such questions as time goes on.
ldelre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 06:33 PM   #20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 18
Rep Power: 0
DrMACOR is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefan View Post
I've heard some stories that some of those medical laser treatments are nothing more than a placebo, so look up any proved effect of what you're looking for just to be sure.
A lot of wavelengths and powers can be easily made without spending huge amounts on medical lasers that do pretty much nothing more than a pointer with the right wavelength. A member may even be able to make a fancy looking device witht he right specs for a fraction of the price. Even I could.
So light is light, if a simple pointer has the same properties as an expenive unit, use it to your advantage.
I am MD and study acupuncture for 4 years, at my 35 years old (58 y/o now) I am using lasers devices since 20 years ago, -with eye protection of course, for me and my patients- if you put in acupuncture points has a effect like stimulation, or in wounds or degenerative tissues, the same: stimulation of repair, I am using a device one physicist friend of mine made, 100 mW, 905 nm and pulsed, several pulses, in fact this science in LLLT is very new and all this stuff about pulsed lasers is new terrain, some one of the forum tell the important fact is the mW and the nm, agree with that, if is continuous regimen like the pointers, the user can move the ppointer or flahlight like he wish and do properties of pulses, very low frecuency like 0.5 Hz or maximum of 5 Hz ---the limit is the fast you can move your hand---- the prices are very high if the manufacturer said: "medical lasers", I appreciate a lot if some one of the forum can made to me, or modify with little modifications one model in existence ---(like put conection to electricity instead of bateries), 808 nm 100 mW, 850nm in continous regimen, will be OK, I assume all legal responsability of the application, my e mail is drmacor@gmail.com (I don't know the rules about put my web site and e mail on this post), I can share my medical experience with my laser with the community

Last edited by DrMACOR; 01-08-2012 at 09:06 PM.
DrMACOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 07:28 PM   #21
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 18
Rep Power: 0
DrMACOR is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

about acupuncture I study a professional course for MDs, include traditional concepts and scientific approach, this scientific approach allowed me understand partially how the input of several wavelenghts of lasers ----LEDs are not studied so much but this lack of research don't imply don't has effect on living systems---activate the cellular metabolism by activation of mollecules photoacceptors in the mitochondria (cytochromes) increasing the production of ATP and in some way stimulate the tissue where the laser is applied
DrMACOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 11:58 PM   #22
Class 4 Laser
 
Benm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,314
Rep Power: 198
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

I find it confusing why you would need to use laser in the near-IR (say 1000-800nm) laser for any kind of therapy. Both sunlight and incandescent bulbs output large amounts of light at these wavelenghts, probably more than you could ever safely apply using a laser.

As far as i know there is no reason a specific wavelength is required for biointeraction, so using a laser would only increase the amount of danger compared to using IR LEDs, lightbulbs and whatever other non-collimated source operates in this range.
__________________
Ask a Scientist <- Soon!
Ben's Electronics Projects
ScienceFlicks Science Videos <- Have a look
Benm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 01:03 AM   #23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 18
Rep Power: 0
DrMACOR is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

the use is in acupuncture, acupoints are small areas of the body, in this tradition before electricity the acupuncturist in China use heat with "moxibustion" -search the word in the web- or heat the acupuncture needles, I heat the needles with halogen lamps, with cigarette lighter, hair dryer, but I don't like smoke in my office not either have time to stay with the dryer, so I use laser to provide energy, the indicatios are the same like "moxibustion", this can substitute heat, in my experience has worth, is easy and fast, for example the acupuncturist can provide 1 J in 10 seconds (100 mW x 10 sec) for acupoint
how I explain?? if you stimulate the acupoints with laser is very specific and precise the stimulation, if you put a lamp is very wide and don't penetrate, may be the LEDS are cheap option but are less studied, but you are righ, I am searching
1) cheap options to expensive medical lasers
2) fast stimulation options
3) acupuncture needles substitutes ---this only to the stimulation modalities of puncture with needles, the needle is very versatile and isn't replaced with lasers of any wavelenght
4) this kind of laser use is for professionals in acupuncture or rehabilitation/physical medicine ---of course with professional preparation---
5) about 4) I am professional in health but may be you members know better the technical details of light and devices and I know better the effect in clinical ground
5) we are in 21 century, we should evolve and....the health professionals and the patients like technology, trust me, we the MDs use more dangerous devices and thecnologies and drugs...the point is we prepare to use this ---this is nothing if use with appropiate caution
DrMACOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 01:08 AM   #24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 18
Rep Power: 0
DrMACOR is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

OF COURSE the use of medical lasers has legal issues and need aprove of the health authorities of each country, this is important in commercial intention, so so....let this devices in the intention was made....but appreciate any comment to my posts
DrMACOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 01:45 AM   #25
Class 4 Laser
 
Benm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,314
Rep Power: 198
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Low Level Laser Therapy inquiry

I am roughly familiar with acupuncture - i have no idea about any viable mechanism of action, but the general procecdure is familiar. I suppose its difficult to integrate the concepts of accupuncture with the general ideas of laser safey and laser effects on tissue.

If you want any valuable advise on what laser to use under which circumstance, it should at least be clear what the biochemical target is, so we can consider if the laser will actually be able to reach this target, and if so interact with it.

If the target is, for example, a mitochondrion on the surface of a bone, you need to aim extremely well to concentrate laser power on that particular spot, 'missing' all mitochondria in the skin, adipose tissues etc on the way there. Such aiming techniques are available for radiotherapy of cancer, but i think that may be beyond the scope of this forum.
__________________
Ask a Scientist <- Soon!
Ben's Electronics Projects
ScienceFlicks Science Videos <- Have a look
Benm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
808nm, infrared, llt, low level laser therapy
Database of Laser Pointer Companies



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On









Loading


laser pointer forums top

















Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Green Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Blue Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Red Lasers
Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Yellow Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Purple Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Orange Lasers
Lasers Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Lasers Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Lasers Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes




All times are GMT. The time now is 06:50 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use
Copyright (C) 2014 Laser Pointer Forums, LLC