lasing water

PyroEric said:

Check out Cerenkov radiation.... ever wonder why pictures of nuclear reactors always have pits of glowing blue water?

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I always figured it was due to the artificially-created deuterium and tritium from constant neutron bombardment. Are you sure that laser light emission would be why the water would glow blue? I thought that water lased in the deep infrared, as stated above, not blue.

-Mark

Switch said:

[quote author=nikokapo link=1218511135/0#2 date=1218562820]how would that be even possible :S?

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I dunno....but since there's an air laser, why not a water laser? Wouldn't be as simple though.Feeding massive charges of electricity into water would just cause it to turn into hydrogen and oxygen...But who knows....with the right pump it may be possible :-/[/quote]

Yeah, but AC current will make a lot more heat + some H2/O2.

Off topic question: What happens to a HeNe when you put a magnet next to it?

--hydro15

397.3 and 398.3 nm = oxygen laser lines

3.71 [ch956]m, 3.77 [ch956]m, and 3.84 [ch956]m. hydrogen laser lines


sources:

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/3/23025/01071321.pdf?arnumber=1071321
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4627067.html


oh and a frikkin huge magnetic field near a hene will shut its infrared lines down and help it lase in the others

When H2O changes states from Liq to Gas & Vs Versa its energy has a heristerisis around X4

You get spin and hurricanes, tornados.

Water is facinating!

I got 2 magnetrons I'm dying to use them pulsed into water fed weed wacker engine.

H20 explosions. modulate the water with the correct freq. WOW!

Google Stan Meyers water engine (he was killed by the oilmungers I believe)

All water contains a small percentage of heavy water too!

I like the idea of a water LASER

COOL

OT: Whys the whole world out of money now. (inside terroizm, I think)

Laserrod said:

When H2O changes states from Liq to Gas & Vs Versa its energy has a heristerisis around X4

You get spin and hurricanes, tornados.

Water is facinating!

I got 2 magnetrons I'm dying to use them pulsed into water fed weed wacker engine.

H20 explosions. modulate the water with the correct freq. WOW!

Google Stan Meyers water engine (he was killed by the oilmungers I believe)

All water contains a small percentage of heavy water too!

I like the idea of a water LASER

COOL

OT: Whys the whole world out of money now. (inside terroizm, I think)

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Yeah, I've heard of that guy. Thats why my name is hydrogen man. He was kind of a fraud and I do have a hard time believing a video that is ten years old. Water actually does contain a small amount of heavy water though (VERY SMALL).

--hydro15

Inventors hide thier secrets in the patient papers.

Use high voltage on pure water with the right modulation and the water breaks up with the least energy.

Did U ever drive a golf ball 300 yards and feel how easy it was? It takes perfection!

Seduce the water atoms bound by the enormous presure of dark energy. H2 + O then it's bang, back to water, no pollution!! YEA

Faraday limit would be worst case efficiency.

If you were fossil rich DEMONCRAT would you scrap your business model on something you are told is impossible.

Thier is the problem to greater human energy. Tesla's words in paraphrase

enough said!

Now U got me all wound up , got to shoot a pumpkin before the sun...

Cheers [smiley=beer.gif]

Yeah, about that water-powered car, you realize the problem with the idea of electrolyzing water to make O2/H2 gas and using that to run the engine, while the engine provides the juice for the electrolysis, right?  You do see the problem and why it's not real? And splitting apart molecules to have them reform and give you excess energy. You see the problem with that too, right?

If you don't see the problem, how much physics have you had?  Chemistry?  Any science classes at all?

It's all nonsense, please tell me you realize that or that you haven't had any science classes in school yet (in which case there might still be hope).

As long as there is a net loss of mass from energy output there wouldnt be a violation of any existing physical laws. Hydrogen in the sun goes from hydrogen to helium and then back to hydrogen again many times in a cycle before being fused into heavier elements, if it didnt the sun would use up all its fuel in a fraction of the normal time.

There may be a way to split compounds with very little energy compared to the energy of reacting them chemically, perhaps causing them to make up the balance with their mass from some yet to be understood mass energy conversion.

Particles are constantly popping in and out of existence in numbers too large to comprehend.

Energy can not be created or destroyed, but these particles popping in and out of existence have mass and energy, and seemingly are created and then destroyed, perhaps their energy could be harnessed.

If people never kept an open mind and dared to think differently or take a different approach than what mainstream science tells them they should think like, there would be very few advancements.

Most of the great minds throughout history were regarded as nuts, heretics, or were told that what they were trying to do couldnt possibly work. In science its important to keep an open mind and not just repeat the standard rhetoric, though I agree that in most cases such a reaction would probably be impossible with mundane means.

PyroEric said:

As long as there is a net loss of mass from energy output there wouldnt be a violation of any existing physical laws. Hydrogen in the sun goes from hydrogen to helium and then back to hydrogen again many times in a cycle before being fused into heavier elements, if it didnt the sun would use up all its fuel in a fraction of the normal time.

There may be a way to split compounds with very little energy compared to the energy of reacting them chemically, perhaps causing them to make up the balance with their mass from some yet to be understood mass energy conversion.

Particles are constantly popping in and out of existence in numbers too large to comprehend.

Energy can not be created or destroyed, but these particles popping in and out of existence have mass and energy, and seemingly are created and then destroyed, perhaps their energy could be harnessed.

If people never kept an open mind and dared to think differently or take a different approach than what mainstream science tells them they should think like, there would be very few advancements.

Most of the great minds throughout history were regarded as nuts, heretics, or were told that what they were trying to do couldnt possibly work. In science its important to keep an open mind and not just repeat the standard rhetoric, though I agree that in most cases such a reaction would probably be impossible with mundane means.

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The highlighted part is really quite wrong.  If you have a source for that, that'd be great, but everything I've ever seen (I checked Wikipedia too, just to be sure), says the sun will last billions of years on it's supply of hydrogen, because it's actually a VERY slow fusion reactor.  From Wikipedia (always the quickest thing to get numbers from), 3.4(10)^38 hydrogen atoms fused per second, 8.9(10)^56 hydrogen atoms in the sun.  That's 2.6(10)^18 seconds, or, about 83billion years.  (The sun is only thought to live about 10billion years though, so I can only assume that it's because only about 10% of the hydrogen in the sun will be fused before there's not enough in the core anymore).  So no, it doesn't need recycled protons.

And really what does that have to do with breaking water and reforming it?  All you're doing is breaking a chemical bond and reforming it.  That chemical bond has the same energy before it was broken as it does after it was reformed.  Yeah, I get the whole think outside the box thing, got all that, but where is the extra energy coming from?  You input energy to break the bond, and the chemical reaction releases the energy that you put in when it goes back to a lower energy state.  If it was 100% efficient, which it will never be, that would be one thing.  But you're talking about getting MORE energy back out than you put in.  Where does that come from?

You're not getting a loss of mass, either.  I guarantee, if you measure the mass of the water before and after breaking the bonds and reforming them, the mass will be the same.  And no EXTRA energy will have come out, only the energy that you put in by breaking the bonds.

But there is no "way to efficiently break the bonds" and "inefficiently put them back together".  Bonds have a set energy, when you break one, that amount of energy is absorbed and given to the system as energy and/or entropy.  When you form a bond, entropy decreases and the bond absorbs energy.  With the chemical reactions, bonds are formed and broken, and the energy changes forms, with entropy coming into play as well.  When you get down to the crux of it, there's no matter of efficiency with it, because fundamentals control it.

Particles do come in and out of existence, but a fundamental change happens in the universe when that happens.  Entropy and energy.  Entropy increases, and energy is conserved.  Interchanging mass/energy don't change that equation.  

I get the whole outside the box thing, and Galileo was persecuted for his beliefs and all that.  I get it.  But you have to understand what's in the box before you can think outside of it, and this whole trend of ideas doesn't tell me that that's the case.

pullbangdead said:

Yeah, about that water-powered car, you realize the problem with the idea of electrolyzing water to make O2/H2 gas and using that to run the engine, while the engine provides the juice for the electrolysis, right?  You do see the problem and why it's not real?  And splitting apart molecules to have them reform and give you excess energy.  You see the problem with that too, right?

If you don't see the problem, how much physics have you had?  Chemistry?  Any science classes at all?

It's all nonsense, please tell me you realize that or that you haven't had any science classes in school yet (in which case there might still be hope).

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1. The COP of a heat pump can go up to around ten! use 100W and relize 1000w of usefull heat from the enviroment

Show me your high school physics entropy math on that profesor.


U see my point now? : ;D

Respectfully:

A IC engine running on anything is just a kluge to get us by, until we get out of this Flintstone age.

A H2O/fuel cell/Ed Gray spark exited radient collecting electric motor car would be much better.

One other thing for the professor.

See the work of Hal Putoff!

you could probably make a laser with heavy water and Cerenkov radiation.

Laserrod said:

[quote author=pullbangdead link=1218511135/20#22 date=1224176385]Yeah, about that water-powered car, you realize the problem with the idea of electrolyzing water to make O2/H2 gas and using that to run the engine, while the engine provides the juice for the electrolysis, right?  You do see the problem and why it's not real?  And splitting apart molecules to have them reform and give you excess energy.  You see the problem with that too, right?

If you don't see the problem, how much physics have you had?  Chemistry?  Any science classes at all?

It's all nonsense, please tell me you realize that or that you haven't had any science classes in school yet (in which case there might still be hope).

Click to expand...

1. The COP of a heat pump can go up to around ten!  use 100W and relize 1000w of usefull heat from the enviroment

Show me your high school physics entropy math on that profesor.


U see my point now? : ;D
[/quote]

No, I don't see your point. But we can go through the heatpump. COP is 10, and you want to move 10 joules of thermal energy into your house to make it warmer. You spend 1 J of energy running the pump, and in doing so you extract 9 J of energy from the air outside your house, and those 10 J go into your house, making it nice and toasty. Good work, now your toes won't be cold when you wake up in the morning.

But what have you really done? You have taken thermal energy, 9 J of it, and moved it from one place to another. You did not transform it, you did not extract work from it (ie turn the thermal energy into mechanical energy, running your car), you just moved it. And you spent 1 J to move those 9 J. That DOES NOT make your efficiency over 100%, it makes your COP over 100%. Yes, you put 1 J in, and your house got 10 J in, but your house is not the system. The system is your house, the air you took the 9 J from, and the energy deliver system that provided you the 1 J (power plant, transmission lines, etc). Power plants and transmission lines are not 100% efficient, so there's a loss there. And the entropy? How did the power plant get the energy? Probably burned a fossil fuel, and a solid or liquid going into a gas during burning is a HUGE entropy increase. So your system, as I defined it, got a HUGE increase in entropy from your 10 J input into your house.

You can do all of this math, it's all out there, you don't need a "professor" to do it, and I didn't need any high school physics to spell it out. Notice that you said "realize". Not "make", not "convert", not "use", just "realize". You moved heat, and you have to input energy to get that to happen. The energy in your system is conserved, and the entropy in your system increases. Guaranteed.

So with a car, energy will be conserved, and entropy will increase. It will never be 100% efficient, much less >100% efficient. you can't take water, turn it into H2/O2, and back into water, and extract useful work from that, because the energy back and forth will cancel out.

When scientist did the math on the way the sun made its energy by fusion they realized that the particles didn't have enough energy to fuse together... The only way they could fuse is by having the particles "popping" in and out of existence. :

I don't have time to research this stuff so I think I'll go get started on the NEW wind turbine I'm building.

Also, all this stuff is causing my brain to hurt...I'm not kidding! ;D


--hydro15

I'm interning at SPAWAR which develops communication devices for the Navy and sometimes Airforce. Right now they don't have much of a laser department, they do some simple fiber optic stuff and a few cool things but all of the cool things I can't tell you about :-X. However, before they lost a lot of their funding to HoneyWell they did all sorts of cool stuff... way cooler then the stuff I'm doing with antennas. One of their projects in the laser department was getting to use a liquid as a lasing medium. I do not know the specifics like what the medium was, nm produced, nor exactly how strong it was. But I do know they got it to work and it was classified as a "High Powered Laser"... although maybe that just meant >5mW :