Old 03-13-2014, 02:40 AM #1
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Default Lasers and Mirros

Cam anyone explain for me technically why my lasers beam appears brighter when reflected off a mirror compared to the beam hitting said mirror. Also beam diameter increases a bit which I assume is due to scattering off a surface with microscopic porousity?

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Old 03-13-2014, 03:35 AM #2
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

Rayleigh scattering, the phenomena responsible for visible beams, preferentially favors viewers near the axis of the beam onlooking from the target as opposed to onlooking from the source. The increased beam size is due to the divergence and added beam distance, the increased beam cross section helps the beam seem brighter since more receptors in the eye are influenced even though the intensity is proportionally lower.


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Old 03-13-2014, 03:40 AM #3
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

Sig seems always on the spot
with good info !!
And his grammar is correct.
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:40 AM #4
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

Okay makes perfect sense but I just had a debate on another thread about beam width and its relation to visibility assuming equal outputs. I said thicker beams should be more visible to an extent (for the same reason you explain though i referred to the increase in particles the beam would encounter rather then the result of more stimulation of rod/cone receptors) and was seemingly proven wrong with a photo. But you seem to be validating my view. Can you clear up this confusion for me please it'd be greatly appreciated!

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Old 03-13-2014, 03:45 AM #5
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

I said rods and cones cuz I dont recall which are responsible for color

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Old 03-13-2014, 03:45 AM #6
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Default Lasers and Mirros

Intensity is lowered with beam width for a given power, so how visible the beam is becomes reliant on contrast with environment and the density of the scattering material in the air. I.e. It becomes hard to objectively quantify, much like any perception dependant stimuli.


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Old 03-13-2014, 03:48 AM #7
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

True way too many variables for objective numbers in a subject such a visibility which is intrinsically subjective. Thanks sig for the replies great info just what itbwas looking for. Thanks!

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Old 03-13-2014, 03:50 AM #8
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock_Mike View Post
Sig seems always on the spot
with good info !!
And his grammar is correct.
HMike
Lol good grammar is a plus. My phone is awful for typing grammatically correct posts guess iPhones are better eh.. edit.. although he did forget to put "and" in there as its required when only two points are being made. But I hated English in school so what do I kno lol. Edit again.. im wrong the grammar is right. See told you grammar sucks!

Thanks again tho sig much appreciated grammatically correct or not.

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Old 03-13-2014, 03:55 AM #9
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

Always glad to help!

Idk about android, but the autocorrect in iOS is adaptive and learns the user's habits and adjusts itself to the user the more it is used. It helps a lot, but I also proofread my posts and I tend to talk similarly to how I type, as far as sentence structure goes.


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Old 03-13-2014, 03:56 AM #10
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

Same here as far as how I word my typed sentences but my phone doesnt learn for shit. And im out of hard drive space. Galaxy pos.

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Old 03-13-2014, 09:51 AM #11
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurthr View Post
Intensity is lowered with beam width for a given power, so how visible the beam is becomes reliant on contrast with environment and the density of the scattering material in the air. I.e. It becomes hard to objectively quantify, much like any perception dependant stimuli.


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This is pretty much what I said in the other thread - and proved with an image, but the op is a different question. Beams coming towards you appear brighter than ones going away from you because the light scatters towards your eyes easier when it's coming towards (rather than going away) from the observer.

Marco Polo posted a thread observing the same thing in general a few months back.

OP if you still don't trust me that thinner beams look brighter where other variables remain the same (power, ambient brightness etc) then buy a handful of 532 pen lasers, lpm them all, sort them by power and then pick a bunch that have roughly the same power, switch them on and observe that indeed, the ones with the thinnest beams are brighter.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:32 AM #12
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

No no I believe you trencheel im sorry i dont mean to imply one or the other view is wrong im just slowly putting pieces together. Tbh im quite young and little in the way of formal education so these topics are at the edge of my current comprehension of these matters for the time being. I got diff answers cuz the OPs were different questions. I thought there was an anomaly but the way both of you explained things adds up perfectly. Appreciate you both for helping me out. I really need to invest n a few more textbooks.

Edit. Thanks for having patience with me too guys. I dropped out of school after fifth grade and taught myself since then besides a few classes at community college around where I live so I really do appreciate the positive and quite helpful feedback

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Old 04-28-2014, 02:33 PM #13
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

Quote:
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Cam anyone explain for me technically why my lasers beam appears brighter when reflected off a mirror compared to the beam hitting said mirror.

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It is brighter because more photons are entering your eye when the beam is reflected than when these photons are traveling away from you. It would be the same if you were to shine this laser directly into your eyes versus the beam traveling away from you.
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:01 PM #14
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

The effect is caused by Rayleigh scattering it's been explained and I'm familiar with the phenomenon. Thanks for your input though

Edit. Thank you really man. You explained it simply when viewing from the source only scattered photons are detected but if the beam is arms towards you photons from the source also enter your eyes thus making it appear brighter.
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Old 02-16-2015, 11:19 AM #15
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Thanks to all for sharing this information it really good. keep it up.

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Old 02-16-2015, 01:14 PM #16
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Location: Brighton,MI
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Class 2M Laser
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brighton,MI
Posts: 928
Rep Power: 129
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Default Re: Lasers and Mirros

Use first surface mirrors if possible as reflection is around 98% and standard mirror 70/80%
__________________
Lasers:
405nm E-bay 303 host (peak 113mW) 13% IR dead
405nm Ehgemus host 900mW (peak 635mW 3E lens) had 2 both died in first minute
450nm home made labby NUBM44 6w (peak 7.2w)
445nm Ehgemus RPL host 3W (peak 3.5W)
445nm home made labby 3W (peak 3.1W)
445nm 501b by Blord 2.5W (peak 2.7W)
447nm Dragon Lasers Spartan 1W (peak 1.3W)
520nm custom Ehgemus host NDG7475 1W (peak 1.5W)
520nm Ehgemus host PL520-B1 120mW (peak 143mW)
532nm labby 500mW (peak 630mW)
532nm Dragon Lasers Viper 75mW (peak 122mW)
532nm C6 host (peak 103mW)
532nm E-Bay 303 host 200mW (peak 95mW) 15% IR
589nm Dragon Lasers Spartan 50mW (peak 115mW)
650nm C6 host (peak 153mW)
650nm E-Bay 303 host 200mW (peak 141mW) 75% IR
650nm DVD diode Mini Mag host 54mW (my first build)
650nm dollar store mini pen 5mW X2

808nm Wicked Lasers E2 400mW (peak 598mW)

Expanders & Googles etc:
Dragon Lasers 10x Beam Expander
Dragon Lasers "new" 2x Beam Expander
Dragon Lasers DGTBF
Dragon Lasers LSG02 goggles 190-548nm
Eagle Pair SL-BLG2 goggles 190-540nm

LPM:
nospin Ophir 20c-A-1-Y MrCrouse full wrap heatsinked

Flashlights:
Fenix tk61vn
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