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Old 06-04-2015, 05:13 AM #1
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Default How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

Cool read:

How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States | Collective-Evolution


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Old 06-04-2015, 05:50 AM #2
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Default Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

I remember reading something similar before a couple of times. If this works with photons then this gives me an idea, I need some photon detectors to conduct an experiment.

This also brings up the old question, if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound? I have a feeling the sound may be different.

Where can I get photon detectors?

Alan

Edit: Holy shit! Never mind photon detectors. What kind of labs use them anyway, apparently not very many. How were photons first detected and observed? Does anyone know if there's a way to observe photons without counting them individually? There's got to be some way to detect and observe photons that doesn't cost many thousands of dollars. Maybe something cheap that I could build myself?
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Old 06-04-2015, 11:09 AM #3
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Talking Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

Found this:

In 2014, some guys at MIT found that they could recreate and explain the interference pattern of the double-slit experiment with a classical system, using an experiment involving bouncing droplets of oil.

The experiments involve an oil droplet that bounces along the surface of a liquid. The droplet gently sloshes the liquid with every bounce.

At the same time, ripples from past bounces affect its course. The droplet’s interaction with its own ripples, which form what’s known as a pilot wave, causes it to exhibit behaviors previously thought to be peculiar to elementary particles — including behaviors seen as evidence that these particles are spread through space like waves, without any specific location, until they are measured.

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Old 06-04-2015, 02:22 PM #4
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Default Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

For a less 'mystical' and "hocus pocus" explaination see:http://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/...rposition.html

and Quantum superposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 06-04-2015, 07:33 PM #5
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Default Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
This also brings up the old question, if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound? I have a feeling the sound may be different.
That question has always bothered me. Why wouldn't it make a sound? The universe doesn't need our consent to exist. The only thing I can think of that would change is maybe some sound wave absorption by our bodies. But that wouldn't cause a noticeable change.
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Old 06-04-2015, 07:42 PM #6
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Talking Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

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That question has always bothered me. Why wouldn't it make a sound? The universe doesn't need our consent to exist. The only thing I can think of that would change is maybe some sound wave absorption by our bodies. But that wouldn't cause a noticeable change.
If the tree falls in the woods, and there's no one to hear it, it DOES make a sound....it just doesn't make a noise.




Sound is the wave propagated, noise is the perceived sound....


So it makes a sound, but, no noise.

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Old 06-04-2015, 08:38 PM #7
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Default Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

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Originally Posted by VisibleGreen View Post
That question has always bothered me. Why wouldn't it make a sound? The universe doesn't need our consent to exist. The only thing I can think of that would change is maybe some sound wave absorption by our bodies. But that wouldn't cause a noticeable change.
But if we're not there to hear the sound it could be different because no one is there to observe it or hear it.

The idea of Schrödinger’s cat also bothers me. What if a human were sealed in a box alive? Could they be both dead and alive as long as the box was sealed until or if someone opened it to observe them?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
If the tree falls in the woods, and there's no one to hear it, it DOES make a sound....it just doesn't make a noise.




Sound is the wave propagated, noise is the perceived sound....


So it makes a sound, but, no noise.
So it's always quiet if there's no one there to hear it? Your making that up! Well I guess in the forest there would at least be birds/animals/bugs to hear and observe it so there would be sound and noise, or do their observations have less effect on their environment than ours do?

Alan
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Old 06-05-2015, 01:50 AM #8
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Default Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

If you ask me there's an awful lot of hocus-pocus involved in quantum mechanics. 8-)
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Old 06-05-2015, 03:14 AM #9
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Default Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

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If you ask me there's an awful lot of hocus-pocus involved in quantum mechanics. 8-)
100% WizardG.

Quantum Mechanics is just another way of looking at what you already know.

Is just a tool -like any other-that some find useful.
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Old 06-05-2015, 03:50 AM #10
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Default Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

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If you ask me there's an awful lot of hocus-pocus involved in quantum mechanics. 8-)
At first glance it would seem so, with things like spooky action at a distance, or being in two places at once, but then many things used to look like hocus-pocus or would have at one time. I have confidence we can one day figure it all out.





Alan
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Old 06-05-2015, 04:42 AM #11
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Talking Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
But if we're not there to hear the sound it could be different because no one is there to observe it or hear it.

The idea of Schrödinger’s cat also bothers me. What if a human were sealed in a box alive? Could they be both dead and alive as long as the box was sealed until or if someone opened it to observe them?!



So it's always quiet if there's no one there to hear it? Your making that up! Well I guess in the forest there would at least be birds/animals/bugs to hear and observe it so there would be sound and noise, or do their observations have less effect on their environment than ours do?

Alan


No, I'm saying that sound is the propagated wave, and that noise is what we call our perception of that wave.

So, if something sends a vibration through the air (The propagated wave)....that sound is there even if no one detects it.

If it is detected, sound can be called noise....therefore, if the tree falls, and someone is there, there is both sound, and, noise.

If no one is there to hear it...there is sound, but no noise.





As for the CAT...it was a thought experiment....there was no box or cat in real life.


He was just trying to provide insight into what they MEANT by existing in two states at the same time.

In other words, there's a probability density...that says what state something might be in, the odds so to speak.


If you have something on the scale in question...something so small that light in the room hitting your target MOVES or destroys/changes your target....etc, the teeny scale of things means that - to DETECT the thing, it has to hit something that detects it, or, it has to react with something as it goes by, so the reaction can be detected.

As either of those actions CHANGE the target...


It means you can EITHER know its exact position, but not its exact speed, or, know its exact speed, but not its exact position....


And, if you want to measure its STATE (say its spin, or if its acting like a wave or particle...), you have to CHANGE its state to try to find out....so, if you can't MEASURE it, you consider it to be in BOTH states.

As soon as you do the measurement, you've "opened the box and the cat is dead either way"....if you DON'T Check on the kitty, think of any MATH involving that kitty to have to consider that the kitty is alive, and, that the kitty is dead....because you don't know which it is.

The square root of negative 1 = i

If you have a math problem with i in it, you have to treat it as if its +1 AND - 1


And so forth.



One of my favorite jokes involves Heisenberg playing hide and seek, and instead of hiding, he's just running around saying his exact speed.


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Old 06-05-2015, 05:00 AM #12
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Default Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

A falling tree does make a sound when it falls even if there is not a human near by.
A deaf human will not hear it but they sure will feel the ground shake if they are close enough to it
A bit of a tangent here but I have a teleport and it has what appears to be ancient mystical markings on it from maybe an Olmec, Mayan, Incan or Aztec civilization but I can't get the dang thing to work!! :P
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Old 06-05-2015, 05:12 AM #13
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Talking Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

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A falling tree does make a sound when it falls even if there is not a human near by.
A deaf human will not hear it but they sure will feel the ground shake if they are close enough to it
A bit of a tangent here but I have a teleport and it has what appears to be ancient mystical markings on it from maybe an Olmec, Mayan, Incan or Aztec civilization but I can't get the dang thing to work!! :P


Did you mean this one?








And correct, things make sounds regardless of audience.

The sound needs to be heard to be called noise though.

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Old 06-05-2015, 05:48 AM #14
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Default Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

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No, I'm saying that sound is the propagated wave, and that noise is what we call our perception of that wave.

So, if something sends a vibration through the air (The propagated wave)....that sound is there even if no one detects it.

If it is detected, sound can be called noise....therefore, if the tree falls, and someone is there, there is both sound, and, noise.

If no one is there to hear it...there is sound, but no noise.
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Originally Posted by Laser Chick View Post
A falling tree does make a sound when it falls even if there is not a human near by.
A deaf human will not hear it but they sure will feel the ground shake if they are close enough to it
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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
And correct, things make sounds regardless of audience.

The sound needs to be heard to be called noise though.
Those waves or vibrations could possibly be in a different state or interact differently with the surrounding environment if not observed or felt or heard. That idea does seem too strange to believe though. There is more to quantum theory that needs to be proven one way or the other.

Alan
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Old 06-05-2015, 01:12 PM #15
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Talking Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
Those waves or vibrations could possibly be in a different state or interact differently with the surrounding environment if not observed or felt or heard. That idea does seem too strange to believe though. There is more to quantum theory that needs to be proven one way or the other.

Alan
Its not REALLY that light for example "knows" if its being watched or not....it would not care either way.

The twin slit experiment uses the presence of an interference pattern to determine if its found waves, and twin lines to determine the presence of a particle.


After that, its about perspective. With no way to detect a wave or particle, its possible for the wave or particle to not be interfered with by the detection methods...and act one way or the other.

If you consider that light is traveling at, well, the speed of light...

...and that as things go faster they gain mass, which eventually slows them down...


...and its even possible that at that speed (radiation) is transitioning back and forth between particle and energy as it travels.


Also consider that a wave has to propagate through a media to exist.

The 2014 MIT study I referred to earlier for example found they could duplicate the twin slit and light effects with bouncing droplets of oil.

The experiments involve an oil droplet that bounces along the surface of a liquid. The droplet gently sloshes the liquid with every bounce.

At the same time, ripples from past bounces, affect its course.

The droplet’s interaction with its own ripples, which form what’s known as a pilot wave, causes it to exhibit behaviors previously thought to be peculiar to elementary particles — including behaviors seen as evidence that these particles are spread through space like waves, without any specific location, until they are measured.

So, no "consciousness" etc.

Its a function of the harmonics when the beam, etc, passes through a media, and, the media and it interact.

It even works for large molecules, let alone sub-atomic particles.


Last edited by Teej; 06-05-2015 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 06-05-2015, 02:29 PM #16
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Default Re: How Is This Possible? Scientists Observe ONE Particle Exist In MULTIPLE States

Dang it, the image did not show for some reason. Thanks Teej!!
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