Laser pointer discussion. Read/write reviews of laser pointers and laser pointer companies. Learn about all types of laser pointers and lasers





Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums! If you are looking for a laser pointer or want to compare different laser pointer companies, you may want to check out the LPF Laser Pointer Company Database. The link will open in a new window for your convenience.








Green Laser Pointers by Category Blue Laser Pointers by Category Red Laser Pointers by Category
Yellow Laser Pointers by Category Violet Laser Pointers by Category Orange Laser Pointers by Category
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes
Laser Technology Laser Pointer Parts Lasers by Wavelength
Top 10 Laser Pointer Companies Laser Pointer Company Database Visible Beam Laser Pointers


One laser store meets all your needs

























Go Back   Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers > Lasers > Science & Lasers



LPF List of Laser Pointer Companies (link opens new window)



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2010, 05:18 AM #1
Tux's Avatar
Tux Tux is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 43
Rep Power: 0
Tux will become famous soon enoughTux will become famous soon enough
Tux Tux is offline
Member
Tux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 43
Rep Power: 0
Tux will become famous soon enoughTux will become famous soon enough
Cool Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

I was at a world class laser lab this week (top in the world). One of the many experiments that was going on was using a femto-second laser aimed at small piece of copper inside a vacume. The energy of the laser would excite the electrons in the copper out of the atom and cause the copper to enter into a state of plasma. Because the laser is pulsing at 10^15 times a second the copper has a very short amount of time to enter into the plasma state and then back into its original state between pulses. The electrons leaving and re-entering the copper atoms somehow creates x-rays!! They didn't get into much detail on how this phenomenon works though . I do know that it is a class IV laser and somewhere between 532nm-805nm in wavelength. I do remembeer "x-ray" laser being mentioned


__________________
Tux is offline   Reply With Quote







LPF List of Laser Pointer Companies (link opens new window)







Old 08-14-2010, 05:50 AM #2
Meatball's Avatar
Class 3B Laser
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 2,989
Rep Power: 242
Meatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond repute
Meatball Meatball is offline
Class 3B Laser
Meatball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 2,989
Rep Power: 242
Meatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond reputeMeatball has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

Perhaps they are simply making electrons oscillate in and out of their excited state quickly enough to make them emit wavelengths that are short enough to be called x-rays. This is just what came to mind. Pure speculation. I think I read something about this excited state of copper, that it is invisible to microwaves? I'll try and find that article! Thanks for sharing!
__________________
FIAT LUX

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Meatball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 10:04 AM #3
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Queensland, AU
Posts: 7,549
Rep Power: 1100
Things has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond repute
Things Things is offline
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Queensland, AU
Posts: 7,549
Rep Power: 1100
Things has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond reputeThings has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

You can make xrays from almost anything these days, wouldn't be suprised if that actually work. The laser would have to be delivering many kW power pulses though.
Things is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 10:53 AM #4
pullbangdead's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 238
pullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond repute
pullbangdead pullbangdead is offline
Class 3R Laser
pullbangdead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 238
pullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond reputepullbangdead has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

Not uncommon way to make x-ray pulses nowadays. They actually have several ways of doing it with a laser and a solid target as the main active ingredients, a couple of different mechanisms are available.
pullbangdead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 06:24 PM #5
jmgallego's Avatar
Class 2 Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 2187
jmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond repute
jmgallego jmgallego is offline
Class 2 Laser
jmgallego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 2187
jmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond repute
Talking Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

Tux,

X-rays, not visible (532nm-805nm). Were you by any chance in San Diego?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux View Post
I was at a world class laser lab this week (top in the world). One of the many experiments that was going on was using a femto-second laser aimed at small piece of copper inside a vacume. The energy of the laser would excite the electrons in the copper out of the atom and cause the copper to enter into a state of plasma. Because the laser is pulsing at 10^15 times a second the copper has a very short amount of time to enter into the plasma state and then back into its original state between pulses. The electrons leaving and re-entering the copper atoms somehow creates x-rays!! They didn't get into much detail on how this phenomenon works though . I do know that it is a class IV laser and somewhere between 532nm-805nm in wavelength. I do remembeer "x-ray" laser being mentioned
__________________
Building Laser Pointers Using the 445nm Laser Diodes
Diode Lasers:
405nm: 15 and 35mW built, PHR 405nm, 100mW, Dagin's Dorcy built ~200mW
445nm: Built ~3W and Jayrob Built - 445nm <1W
532nm: 70mW and ~200mW
635/650nm: 200mW, and several builds
Gas Lasers:
337nm: Nitrogen (N2) laser, 3mW, 175uJ/pulse, peak @ 30kW and a 6mW, 260uJ/pulse, peak @ 75kW
632nm: Melles Griot HeNe, 0.5, 1. 0 5 0 and 15. 0mW
Dye Laser(s):

380-~1000nm: Different laser dyes, different wavelenghts, different laser powers.

Crystal Laser:
Holmium YAG (Ho:YAG) laser, 2.1 μm, 53W

Assorted laser accessories, including LPM, optics, and a holography table.
jmgallego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 08:25 PM #6
Tux's Avatar
Tux Tux is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 43
Rep Power: 0
Tux will become famous soon enoughTux will become famous soon enough
Tux Tux is offline
Member
Tux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 43
Rep Power: 0
Tux will become famous soon enoughTux will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

Quote:
X-rays, not visible (532nm-805nm). Were you by any chance in San Diego?
Nah its near Dayton Ohio, Wright Patt Air Force Base. The Air force has labs for directed energy laser weapons out west though. Yeah I know x-rays aren't in that wavelength, its the range of wavelengths that the lasers operate in the lab, that way they know which eye protection to use.

Quote:
Perhaps they are simply making electrons oscillate in and out of their excited state quickly enough to make them emit wavelengths that are short enough to be called x-rays. This is just what came to mind. Pure speculation. I think I read something about this excited state of copper, that it is invisible to microwaves? I'll try and find that article! Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, at first thats what I thought, but they told us the copper entered into a state of plasma. Im no physicist but don't the electrons have to leave the atom completely rather than being excited to the outer most energy levels. I could be wrong. Invisible to microwaves? cool.

Quote:
You can make xrays from almost anything these days, wouldn't be suprised if that actually work. The laser would have to be delivering many kW power pulses though.
I did not know that. No the laser wasn't delivering Kw pulses, she said something about it operating around 100w and the reason why it didn't need Kwatts of power was because its a pulse laser. The laser itself was huge it took up about half a table and they said it cost about 500K. $ )
__________________
Tux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 11:36 PM #7
jmgallego's Avatar
Class 2 Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 2187
jmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond repute
jmgallego jmgallego is offline
Class 2 Laser
jmgallego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 2187
jmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond reputejmgallego has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux View Post
Nah its near Dayton Ohio, Wright Patt Air Force Base. The Air force has labs for directed energy laser weapons out west though. Yeah I know x-rays aren't in that wavelength, its the range of wavelengths that the lasers operate in the lab, that way they know which eye protection to use.
Same project over here
__________________
Building Laser Pointers Using the 445nm Laser Diodes
Diode Lasers:
405nm: 15 and 35mW built, PHR 405nm, 100mW, Dagin's Dorcy built ~200mW
445nm: Built ~3W and Jayrob Built - 445nm <1W
532nm: 70mW and ~200mW
635/650nm: 200mW, and several builds
Gas Lasers:
337nm: Nitrogen (N2) laser, 3mW, 175uJ/pulse, peak @ 30kW and a 6mW, 260uJ/pulse, peak @ 75kW
632nm: Melles Griot HeNe, 0.5, 1. 0 5 0 and 15. 0mW
Dye Laser(s):

380-~1000nm: Different laser dyes, different wavelenghts, different laser powers.

Crystal Laser:
Holmium YAG (Ho:YAG) laser, 2.1 μm, 53W

Assorted laser accessories, including LPM, optics, and a holography table.
jmgallego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2010, 11:38 AM #8
millirad's Avatar
Class 3B Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No. California
Posts: 2,576
Rep Power: 297
millirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond repute
millirad millirad is offline
Class 3B Laser
millirad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No. California
Posts: 2,576
Rep Power: 297
millirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond reputemillirad has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

One common way to make X-rays of course, is striking a tungsten plate with high voltage/high energy electrons.
__________________
Greenie - 100mw in diy aluminum host
650nm - 260mw in MXDL host with brass heatsink
650nm - 325mw in stainless Raygun host. The dot is so bright it's
PINK/ORANGE!
Thanks Jay! Thanks Drew! Thanks Larry! Thanks Glenn! Thanks Dave!

Pink - 500mW (white w/red , ok not till later)
Please don't dazzle aircraft! You wouldn't hit someone in the face normally would you?
Home of the stainless RAYGUN !
millirad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2010, 03:50 PM #9
Cyparagon's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,141
Rep Power: 9321
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Cyparagon Cyparagon is online now
Class 4 Laser
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,141
Rep Power: 9321
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux View Post
Yeah I know x-rays aren't in that wavelength, its the range of wavelengths that the lasers operate in the lab, that way they know which eye protection to use.
So if they're potentially exposed to the laser light, wouldn't that also mean they're also exposed to the Xrays? Is there any material out there that protects against xrays, but NOT against visible light?
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2010, 04:02 PM #10
Toke's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 1,111
Rep Power: 51
Toke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond repute
Toke Toke is offline
Class 3R Laser
Toke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 1,111
Rep Power: 51
Toke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
So if they're potentially exposed to the laser light, wouldn't that also mean they're also exposed to the Xrays? Is there any material out there that protects against xrays, but NOT against visible light?
This? Lead glass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know hospital x-ray rooms have a glass window between the operator and the patient, it must be this.
__________________
100mW Odicforce kit.
App. 300mw MiniMag
App 120mW labby
Fan cooled 400mA 12X 405nm flashlight

532nm 150mW Labby.
532nm 50mW in flashlight

1.2W 445nm Yobresal
Basic laser building guide.
Toke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2010, 04:47 PM #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 14
Rep Power: 0
mbessey is on a distinguished road
mbessey mbessey is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 14
Rep Power: 0
mbessey is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux View Post
. No the laser wasn't delivering Kw pulses, she said something about it operating around 100w and the reason why it didn't need Kwatts of power was because its a pulse laser. The laser itself was huge it took up about half a table and they said it cost about 500K. $ )
This is where the difference between average and peak power comes into play. Because the pulses are so short, the peak power is likely in the gigawatt or terawattt range.

The X-rays are probably just the result of heating the copper to extreme temperatures. Heat something to 2000 degrees, and it'll glow red. 6000 degrees, and it'll be white-hot. Heat it enough, and it'll glow in X-rays.
mbessey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2010, 10:53 PM #12
Tux's Avatar
Tux Tux is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 43
Rep Power: 0
Tux will become famous soon enoughTux will become famous soon enough
Tux Tux is offline
Member
Tux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 43
Rep Power: 0
Tux will become famous soon enoughTux will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

Quote:
So if they're potentially exposed to the laser light, wouldn't that also mean they're also exposed to the Xrays? Is there any material out there that protects against xrays, but NOT against visible light?
Yeah lol they aren't going to have the researchers exposed to x-rays in the lab.
Quote:
This? Lead glass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know hospital x-ray rooms have a glass window between the operator and the patient, it must be this.
Yup I think that is what they said they were using.

Quote:
This is where the difference between average and peak power comes into play. Because the pulses are so short, the peak power is likely in the gigawatt or terawattt range.
Ok that makes sense, but I couldn't imagine that much power going into it, maybe THINGS was right it could be around kw.
Quote:
The X-rays are probably just the result of heating the copper to extreme temperatures. Heat something to 2000 degrees, and it'll glow red. 6000 degrees, and it'll be white-hot. Heat it enough, and it'll glow in X-rays.
If that were the case then why bother using an expensive femto second laser? A conventional oven would suffice
__________________
Tux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2010, 03:58 PM #13
Bluefan's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,482
Rep Power: 62
Bluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond repute
Bluefan Bluefan is offline
Class 3R Laser
Bluefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,482
Rep Power: 62
Bluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond reputeBluefan has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Femto-second laser + copper = x-rays??

the 532nm-805nm range is just 532 for the pump lasers and around 800 for the Ti:sapphire laser which makes the ultrafast pulses. I'm now working at my university on extreme high harmonic generation, shooting an ultrashort laser pulse in an argon filled capillary and getting up to soft x rays out of it. At least, we're setting it up again for a second round of experiments
Bluefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On











Loading








Green Laser Pointers by Category Blue Laser Pointers by Category Red Laser Pointers by Category
Yellow Laser Pointers by Category Violet Laser Pointers by Category Orange Laser Pointers by Category
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes






Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use


 


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:43 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use
Copyright (C) 2017 Laser Pointer Forums, LLC