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Old 03-30-2013, 02:39 AM #1
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Default You never know who's watching this forum

In a recent post someone asked if anyone can build them a 15mw laser and I replied they should be circumspect asking such a question because you never know who's watching. For example I just came across this article at optics.org. Here's a portion to read:
Quote:
Non-lethal’ lasers not always as specified
27 Mar 2013
Growing use – by friend and foe – of lasers as weapons in civil unrest and war zones; many lasers labeled “low power” present greater dangers, DES 2013 conference hears. Many supposedly low power laser-based tools, including some laser pointers, widely available over the Internet, are often incorrectly or under-specified.

In conjunction with widely varying international export and import restrictions, this can mean that that potentially dangerous laser systems can easily get into the wrong hands.

These were just some of the eye-catching observations of Massimo Annati, RAdm (ret), who is now director of the European Working Group on Non-Lethal Weapons (EWG-NLW), in his presentation to the tenth annual Directed Energy Systems conference, organized by Defence IQ and held in London earlier this month.

Annati’s talk was entitled “We Are Not Alone – Criminal and Malevolent use of Laser Dazzlers” and it described the increasing variety of non-lethal applications of lasers, which are being deployed by friend and foe alike.

He told the conference, “I am talking about systems that are designed not to cause permanent damage, because besides the ethical aspects, there is a convention – the 1995 Blinding Laser Weapons Convention – which prohibits the development and operation of laser weapons that are specifically designed to cause permanent injuries and blindness.?Non-lethal? lasers not always as specified
The really interesting part can be seen towards the bottom of the page. You will all recognize it and maybe even have read it. So remember this all you youngsters out there. Think before you start wagging your chin about your new high powered laser consider whom might be listening.



Last edited by steve001; 03-24-2014 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:50 PM #2
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

Yeah like the purposed ">5mW" ebay laser pens are often 50mW-80mW... easily enough to do eye damage.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:45 PM #3
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

I don't think anyone contests that lasers could cause blindness. Were they designed to do so?

Were blades designed to decapitate people? Was fire discovered to burn people at the stake?

I will say this. If someone attacked me with lethal or even injuring intent, I would not hesitate to use a laser as a weapon against them, if it was my best or only option

Does non-lethal also mean non-permanent-damage-causing?
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:15 AM #4
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

Is there really a point to having a laser that powerful? A handheld one at least. It seems a little unnecessary to have high powered and dangerous lasers sitting around for no purpose.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:23 AM #5
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzLasers View Post
Is there really a point to having a laser that powerful? A handheld one at least. It seems a little unnecessary to have high powered and dangerous lasers sitting around for no purpose.
Is there a point to having a fast car?

Is there a point in having a nice steak?

Is there a point in having a drink?

Is there a point in watching tv?

Is there a point to skiing?

Skydiving?

Hunting?

Fishing?

Hiking?

Stamp collecting?

Reading fiction?

Hint - these are all things people enjoy, or do as a hobby.

There does not have to be a point.

If you disagree, by all means please feel free to deprive yourself of anything and everything, but do not for a second try to deprive others of things they enjoy, especially when these things do not directly effect you.

The whole "item such and such could be dangerous, and a bunch of idiots do stupid things with it, let's make it illegal, and punish everyone, regardless of how they act" thinking just drives me insane.

Last edited by InfinitusEquitas; 03-31-2013 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:50 AM #6
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

Infinitus you need to stop making such good posts....eventually this forum will let me rep you a few times in a row, but until then "I must spread some".....

The lasers we use are not "weapons designed to cause permanent eye damage". i am pretty sure that law was implemented to stop countries from developing weapons systems to incapacitate soldier by blinding them....which, although it may be war, is quite inhumane, cruel, and unusual. So they made that law as an agreement to "not be dicks".
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:33 AM #7
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

Well said IE, well said.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:28 AM #8
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Is there a point to having a fast car?


If you disagree, by all means please feel free to deprive yourself of anything and everything, but do not for a second try to deprive others of things they enjoy, especially when these things do not directly effect you.

I wish I could rep you for that also IE (need to spread around first as well!)

I think that is the best and only response to give and also the kind of wording to include when writing your politician(s).

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Old 03-31-2013, 08:45 AM #9
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

It's a well known fact people "higher up" are watching these forums. We have had a few members here actually end up with legal issues with authority and even companies over something they've done, or did over the forum, for example selling complete lasers. Same reason people often use different spelling for our favourite company Ca510, they didn't want their name involved with the havoc these new 445nm diodes were causing, and actually threatened legal action on LPF and other forums.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:43 PM #10
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Talking Re: You never know who's watching this forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Is there a point to having a fast car?

Is there a point in having a nice steak?

Is there a point in having a drink?

Is there a point in watching tv?

Is there a point to skiing?

Skydiving?

Hunting?

Fishing?

Hiking?

Stamp collecting?

Reading fiction?

Hint - these are all things people enjoy, or do as a hobby.

There does not have to be a point.

If you disagree, by all means please feel free to deprive yourself of anything and everything, but do not for a second try to deprive others of things they enjoy, especially when these things do not directly effect you.

The whole "item such and such could be dangerous, and a bunch of idiots do stupid things with it, let's make it illegal, and punish everyone, regardless of how they act" thinking just drives me insane.
The truth..
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:59 PM #11
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

A totally ridiculous article. Foam walls anyone. Plastic knives.

Way I see it, they made the problem in the first place. They're responsible for the laser weapon's inception (DPSS based 523nm @ ~150mW) in the mid-late 1990's. Now they are pointing the finger at hobbyists. Ironic.
---Lot's of things could be weapons. Microwaves...
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:59 PM #12
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seoul_lasers View Post
A totally ridiculous article. Foam walls anyone. Plastic knives.

Way I see it, they made the problem in the first place. They're responsible for the laser weapon's inception (DPSS based 523nm @ ~150mW) in the mid-late 1990's. Now they are pointing the finger at hobbyists. Ironic.
---Lot's of things could be weapons. Microwaves...
Consider this point which I am making with the article, which is to be circumspect. Many people ask questions of others [ see link in 1st post] or ask, as the article pointed out clearly, how to circumvent the law. All done without thinking first. So people should think about the possible ramifications before they type.

In your country the laser laws may be different or non existent and this may not be a concern.

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Old 04-01-2013, 04:28 AM #13
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Is there a point to having a fast car?

Is there a point in having a nice steak?

Is there a point in having a drink?

Is there a point in watching tv?

Is there a point to skiing?

Skydiving?

Hunting?

Fishing?

Hiking?

Stamp collecting?

Reading fiction?

Hint - these are all things people enjoy, or do as a hobby.

There does not have to be a point.

If you disagree, by all means please feel free to deprive yourself of anything and everything, but do not for a second try to deprive others of things they enjoy, especially when these things do not directly effect you.

The whole "item such and such could be dangerous, and a bunch of idiots do stupid things with it, let's make it illegal, and punish everyone, regardless of how they act" thinking just drives me insane.
I completely agree with that. I'm not saying lasers should be banned, or that it shouldn't be your hobby. No one is trying to take your lasers away :P (except the authorities)

I completely disagree with the laws, bans and restrictions imposed on lasers.
I do think that in some cases, a less powerful laser could suffice. I love lasers and use them on a daily basis. I'm just so sick of hearing about misuse of lasers on the news. Some people need to wise up and educate themselves.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:35 AM #14
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

+1 for you InfinitusEquitas. I hate the laws in Australia, a few people (in which i cannot describe in appropriate language for this forum) have to ruin it for the rest of them. My dad actually just got a category A & B firearms license. It was easy all we had to do is put in an application and a reason why we wanted it (it basically said we want it so we can just go shoot it out at a mates place who has 58 acres because we only have 24 and you need at least 40) then they just do some background checks and its all sweet. I think a gun is more dangerous than a laser. Whats stopping him from just going out and shooting some people or me stabbing someone with a butter knife (im not saying we are homicidal maniacs). With all this laser laws and selling lasers and stuff can you guys check out my thread please? I just need some advice Ensuring My Safety Selling Portable Lasers in Australia
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:56 PM #15
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

I had a similar debate with a british friend recently. We agreed to disagree, but basically to me, even guns are far from being the most dangerous items people have access to.

Follow the Advice from Fiddy and Bob on the other thread. Personally I wouldn't risk selling complete lasers in AU, unless I personally knew the buyer.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:09 PM #16
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Default Re: You never know who's watching this forum

Yeah, Encap brought me back down to earth, there is even a risk of selling a JAD kit in AU because some 14 year old can get caught shining it at a plane and they say that they got most of the parts from you and off to juvenile prison you go (at least if i got caught, im not 18 yet). I am only going to sell them to people i personally know.
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