WL Googles

erdabyz said:

Froty chimp also says that not certified googles aren't good.
With two experienced members telling my googles are crap, I have a terrible doubt.
Some members say LaserShades are good, but then it turns out that they have the Sport elite, which are manufacturated by noir. I've also seen that certified googles have different colour than mine's. And WL isn't a good compaly, many pepople complain about their underpoered lasers...

I don't know what to do. If someone can tell me exactly how safe am I with Laser Shades (real OD, time before degradation) and it's enough for me, i'll keep using them. If not, I'll sell the LaserShades and buy some certified ones.

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Yes WL does carry Genuine NOIR goggles, the Sport Elites; I have never disputed that. WL states who makes them and they are stamped by NOIR as made by NOIR USA and WL even provides the NOIR cert info right on WL's own sales page, however the same can't be said about their branded lasershields, nor did WL ever state otherwise; in-fact a simple phone call to their toll free number will yield that info in a matter of minutes; I can only recall in the last year or so one person spewing out otherwise, and that of-course is the Trinket Boy Greg Stoner who just happens to have a personal financial interest in them.

In the end it's your eyesight, so only you can decide; how much is your sight worth to you?

I'll leave you with this thought, how much stuff has been tainted coming out of China? Lead in toys, food, dog food, medicines, etc WHY would you believe otherwise for laser goggles that even WL wouldn't state are Certified by anyone; doesn't that send you a signal?, doesn't an alarm go off for you? Remember even WL offers Genuine NOIR's.

In the end it's your eyesight, so only you can decide; how much is your sight worth to you?

This are the kind of phrases i don't wanna read.

Yes, I can decide, But I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DECIDE.

If lasershades can protect the neccesary for me, i'll keep them. But all i read of them is "they are good, they are crap". I Want NUMBERS, TESTS, REVIEWS, I wanna see WHY they are CRAP. Yes, certified are better and will protect me for sure, but if lasershades do their work, why don't use them?

A member told me that LaserShades have been tested and they are actually OD 3+. he also said that he doubt that my eyes would be damaged with a dilda and lasershades. But guess what, he had certified googles for himself. I hate that kind of answers like "decide, the crappy will work well but i'll use the good ones for myself".

I haven't got a lot of money, and i don't wanna spend it in unneccesary things. I think I'm gonna make a homemade blu-ray to push myself to buy Blu-Ray googles, and taht way i've got a reason to buy 650+405nm certified googles.

but what can I do with laser shades? sell them?


EDIT: i put you an example of what I mean. imagine that i'm working with radioactive materials. I wanna buy lead shield for that. I find a 6mm thick lead shield for $50, and a $90 12mm thick one.
I know that 12mm one will protect me agaisnt gamma rays up to let's say 50mW power, and the 6mm for 25mW power. I'm working with a 10mW radiation source. Yes, I can buy the 12mm thick shield because in a very strange situation i could be exposed to 30mW radiation and the 6mm won't work. But, Would you spend $ 90 for the 12mm if you were only going to work with <25mw radiations?
yes, it's your body and it's worth more than $90, but if you are still a teenager like me, who only studies, $90 would be a big expense for you, and the $50 will do their job for what you are going to work with.

this is the same, I can buy my cdertified googles and someday get hit by the laser without them. Yes, I had certified googles, but my eyes are damaged.
And the unic difference between certified and Laser shades is that certified have tested OD and can withstand 10 seconds hits. LaserShades have been tested by some members acordin to Petrovsky and they were actually OD 3+. for what I'm going to do with lasers, it's extremely difficult to have a 10 seconds hit to my eye.

erdabyz:

I just wanted to chime in and say your post above this one, was very well written and thought out; no spewing out crap, you made a very good analogy.

The same can be said about Helmets for Motorcycles for example, there are plenty of scientific test that clearly show which helmets will protect you, some states for example even inspect those helmets annually and require that they are DOT certified, SNELL certification is even better; to make a point if your interested;  http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Helmets.html

Sure you can choose to purchase a $30.00 un-certified helmet and hope that if you ever really need it to really protect one day it will, I'd certainly feel much safer wearing a SNELL Certified Helmet, and yes there is a Price to pay for that layer of safety, but then again whats the price for brain damage or worse? Not much different than your eyesight, losing it would be a terrible thing at any price.

WL would gladly post a credible scientific test info about their lasershields IF they had it, fact is they don't, and they don't try and lie about it either, rather they offer you a choice of a Certified pair of Laser Safety Glasses.

I guess as you point out being a teenager it can be tough to come up with the extra cash for a Certified pair and I do get that, I just hope you get you are gambling with your sight.  Don't listen to any of us on this Forum, consult with a Board Certified Ophthalmologist, tell him about the Lasers and a Chinese pair of "safety glasses" from an unknown manufacture of origin, and then about NOIR or other FDA/CE Certified Laser Safety Glasses and see what he/she tells you.

OK, Yes I do understand you probably don't have the money to actually sit down with one, but there are many ways around that, Colleges of Medicines and Physics can help, friends may know somebody, and pray tell you may be able to find a free advice Doctor online, but be careful with the online doctors, you really don't always know who you are actually dealing with, so I'd take that advise with a grain of salt.  Don't forget about your parents, while they might not know much about lasers and maybe they do though, I bet they can help steer you in the right direction. IF you decide to get rid of the lasershields, you can always dump them on FleaBay.

Stay safe.

Electron, other than the fact that they are not certified, what is your beef with the lasershades? As I have said several times before - I own numerous pairs and types of goggles from WL, to NoIR, etc. Almost always, I use my lasershades over the NoIRs. They simply are superior goggles for the hobbyist. Certified or not, the lasershades block the laser light they're supposed to. I could either use the NoIRs for red lasers, which block out all light and require you to take off the goggles to aim the laser (safe, huh?), or the lasershades which will easily protect you from a watt of red and still let you view the laser.

I get that its nice to have certification - its just a more secure feeling I guess. You pay extra for that though. As far as I'm concerned, either choice has its merits. I don't disagree its a good idea to buy certified goggles, but WL lasershades are tried and true and I have yet to see any justification for why buying them is a bad idea either.

So yeah... sorry but I find it a bit ironic the guy advertising owning an LPM and a die4thing power meter is complaining about buying non-certified or potentially iffy quality stuff. To me though, I've heard lots of people say they have tested both of those meters and they are relatively accurate. Thats good enough for me to respect your decision, and apparently it was good enough for you too. Similarly, I wish you could trust my extensive testing and use of goggles, WL and many others, enough to let me promote them in peace (because this really seems to be a silly argument to be having; especially since the motives seem to be more geared around an inter-member conflict than anything to do with goggles).

electron said:

erdabyz:

I just wanted to chime in and say your post above this one, was very well written and thought out; no spewing out crap, you made a very good analogy.

The same can be said about Helmets for Motorcycles for example, there are plenty of scientific test that clearly show which helmets will protect you, some states for example even inspect those helmets annually and require that they are DOT certified, SNELL certification is even better; to make a point if your interested;  http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Helmets.html

Sure you can choose to purchase a $30.00 un-certified helmet and hope that if you ever really need it to really protect one day it will, I'd certainly feel much safer wearing a SNELL Certified Helmet, and yes there is a Price to pay for that layer of safety, but then again whats the price for brain damage or worse? Not much different than your eyesight, losing it would be a terrible thing at any price.

WL would gladly post a credible scientific test info about their lasershields IF they had it, fact is they don't, and they don't try and lie about it either, rather they offer you a choice of a Certified pair of Laser Safety Glasses.

I guess as you point out being a teenager it can be tough to come up with the extra cash for a Certified pair and I do get that, I just hope you get you are gambling with your sight.  Don't listen to any of us on this Forum, consult with a Board Certified Ophthalmologist, tell him about the Lasers and a Chinese pair of "safety glasses" from an unknown manufacture of origin, and then about NOIR or other FDA/CE Certified Laser Safety Glasses and see what he/she tells you.

OK, Yes I do understand you probably don't have the money to actually sit down with one, but there are many ways around that, Colleges of Medicines and Physics can help, friends may know somebody, and pray tell you may be able to find a free advice Doctor online, but be careful with the online doctors, you really don't always know who you are actually dealing with, so I'd take that advise with a grain of salt.  Don't forget about your parents, while they might not know much about lasers and maybe they do though, I bet they can help steer you in the right direction. IF you decide to get rid of the lasershields, you can always dump them on FleaBay.

Stay safe.

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Pff, if I had known that Sport elite googles were certified i had bought them instead of LaserShades, but in that moment i only saw two pairs, one more stylish for $50, and one very ugly for $40.I thought that the $10 extra will only pay the style. I didn't know anything about lasers in taht moment. I saw the kip kay video and I wanted to make my own burning laser. The fist attempt obviously failed. The second one, with a DDL driver I made also failed. Overheat i think.

How much can I obtain selling lasershades on ebay?
In OEMlasersystems 405+650 nm googles cost $104, which is 66 euros. If I can obtain 20 euros for my LaserShades, then i could perfectly buy the certified if shipping costs aren't too high. 46 euros isn't a high expense for me in this moment.

Just IMO, but if you would have bought the sport elite noir goggles from WL, you would have made a very poor choice. The lasershades provide much better protection due to the fact you can actually use your laser whilst wearing them. I have a picture somewhere of a 150mW red shining into a camera with the noir goggles in the way - you can't even see the slightest amount of red. Sure, its strong protection, but that means you can't aim your laser while using the goggles.

Pff, NOiR claim to be OD 2.5+. Lasershades might be less than OD 1.5+, not OD3+ as i had been told.

Electron - your arguments are worthless - I suppose this time around you are an ophthalmologist, instead of a threatening, childish customs inspector ? LOL ! Keep on spewing crap - you are not assisting the individual that has asked a legit question regarding safety.

To answer his question - you are FINE with LaserShades - the sport elite ones block way too much light to be useful - as Pseudo said, you have to remove them in order to see what you are doing. It is entirely up to you, however - I have earned NO blind spots in my vision - nor has any member of my family, nor has anyone I have ever shown my lasers to - which is a helluva lot of people. AND I use strictly Wicked Lasers LaserShades for protection - hence my choice to sell them in my online shop...because I believe in them, and they are a proven entity. Your choice should not be based on what ANY person on this forum tells you - your choice (as you seem to be intelligent) MUST be made from research, and a sense that you are getting decent protection. You can choose whichever protective goggles you want, the ones that OEM sells are fabulous - the WL goggles offer good protection at a fraction of the cost, and although they are made by a Chinese company (which others in this thread evidently have LOADS of issues with-being a racially motivated person must be horrible to put up with on his part...) are more than adequate to protect your precious vision.

back to PICRTHIS/ELECTRON - STFU - you are worthless, and know nothing of what you speak - at ANY time. Regardless of how many times you call me a little boy, or that I sell trinkets, or whatever else. Jealousy is a bitch, eh ? Or should I not use a commonly referred to term as a "Canadian" stereotyped phrase with you - are you racially motivated towards hatred against Canadians also ? Put your hood back on, burn your little sacrifices or whatever else you see fit to do - leave this forum in peace, and go the F UCK away.

erdabyz:
I think if you sell them on FleaBay you could get what you paid for them, I have seen many items actually sell for more than you can actually purchase things in a store with a warranty and return privileges, it's amazing what people get for some things.  Give it a try, maybe set a reserve price on them on a buy it now price instead.

Good luck

Why is it it seems my posts always get ignored? Same stuff seems to happen when I talk about scammers and all. The more thought and logic I put into a post, the more it gets looked over. Almost as if the details are just too upsetting to have to listen to. "You want the truth?! you can't handle the truth!!". Anyway, since it hasn't been addressed, I'll repost..

Electron, other than the fact that they are not certified, what is your beef with the lasershades? As I have said several times before - I own numerous pairs and types of goggles from WL, to NoIR, etc. Almost always, I use my lasershades over the NoIRs. They simply are superior goggles for the hobbyist. Certified or not, the lasershades block the laser light they're supposed to. I could either use the NoIRs for red lasers, which block out all light and require you to take off the goggles to aim the laser (safe, huh?), or the lasershades which will easily protect you from a watt of red and still let you view the laser.

I get that its nice to have certification - its just a more secure feeling I guess. You pay extra for that though. As far as I'm concerned, either choice has its merits. I don't disagree its a good idea to buy certified goggles, but WL lasershades are tried and true and I have yet to see any justification for why buying them is a bad idea either.

So yeah... sorry but I find it a bit ironic the guy advertising owning an LPM and a die4thing power meter is complaining about buying non-certified or potentially iffy quality stuff. To me though, I've heard lots of people say they have tested both of those meters and they are relatively accurate. Thats good enough for me to respect your decision, and apparently it was good enough for you too. Similarly, I wish you could trust my extensive testing and use of goggles, WL and many others, enough to let me promote them in peace (because this really seems to be a silly argument to be having; especially since the motives seem to be more geared around an inter-member conflict than anything to do with goggles).

DITTO right back to you Greg Stoner, spew all the crap you like; that's all your good at anyhow; nothing more than a WLS.

By the way NOIR and many others sell Certified Laser Safety Glasses that have much better VLT than the model WL sells.

pseudonomen137 said:

Sick and tired of BS and misinformation

Tired of it all so I went and restested a brand new pair of WL lasershades for red - brand new out of the package. I do not have the proper equipment to precisely measure OD, but I daresay my equipment and methods are gunna provide you with far more factual numbers about the lasershades than ANYTHING in this thread so far even gets close to.

So tests were conducted with ~660nm sources. OD was found to be in the 2.5-3.0 range, with my personal estimate (ignoring the margin of error I calculated into the 2.5-3.0spec) set at 2.7OD. The goggles were also shown to be capable of withstanding direct exposure to 300mW of longitudinally multimode 660nm at a diameter of ~5mm for an indefinite period of time with no degradation in material or increase in transmission.

Until I see similarly reputable tests posted saying otherwise, I hereby declare the post the fact of the land... watcha gunna do about it? Test them yourself would be my suggestion. If proper equipment says I'm wrong, that's one thing and I'm fully willing and ready to cede. If I'm only countered by more unsupported argumentative banter though, I'm just gunna be arrogant, plug my ears and shout "I'm right and you're wrong" till I hear a REAL argument. Sorry but that's my stance and I'm sticking to it.

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Trust me on this, Carter - if you are waiting for an intelligent argument out of that f uckwad - stop waiting, as it will never come. I don't know if you recall his fantastical claims to being part of a customs under cover team for ferreting out laser enthusiasts or not, but I certainly do - and it was at that point that I stopped "listening" to anything this little as swipe has to say, period. If he said the sky is blue, I would still argue with him, because I know for a fact anything that comes out of his mouth is garbage - beyond a shadow of a doubt. I not only respect your "old" findings, but endorse them, as well as your "new" findings - and stand behind my endorsement of Wicked's LaserShades 100%.

pseudonomen137, pictures of the testing process, please.
I said it before, I WANNA SEE WITH MY (hope undamaged) EYES HOW GOOD OR HOW BAD ARE LaserShades. I won't trust anybody since I see something real (photo, video...). The only thing I can belive in this moment is that certified is better than not certified. And since I'm planning to make a BR DIY, i'll probably buy certified 405+650 goggles and sell the lasershades.

I'M GETTING CRAZIER BY MOMENTS with this trouble.

Ahm, another question.

NOiR Sprot elite claim to be 2.5OD. Okai, if LaserShades are 2.7 OD, then why don't you see anything red with Sport elites and you can perfectly see the spot with LaserShades, if LaserShades have more OD?

Sorry, i know my english is bad (i'm not from an english speaking country). I put all my efforts to spell correctly.


EDIT:To make things clear, I don't know anyone of you, I don't know if you have personal problems or if you hate eachother, and I don't wanna know it. And i'm not gonna get influenced by your personal discussions. So please, if you want to really help me, stop personal attacks and all similar BS.

Excellent request on your part - but to make things clear - I am not trying to influence your thoughts one way or the other - simply stating facts, and disputing the idiotic claims of Electron.

For what it is worth - I think your command of the English language is probably better than mine is - and most certainly better than MOST of the folks on here ! You don't worry about your English skills - you are getting your point across, as well as being very easy to understand

I do hope that Psuedo posts his data/pictures/whatnot - but feel free to ask ANYONE on this forum (except the shit-head Electron) about Psuedo's skill set, reputation, and unfailing search for the truth.

Sorry erdabyz but as much as I'd like to help out, I simply don't have the time to provide the media I wish I could. Not only is my video camera in for repair right now, but when I go to take pictures and vids of what I do I go all-out to try to make sure its done right - a process that can easily eat up my day. You can see past stuff on the subject here though: http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/lasers-ch/?start=60
http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/lasers-ch/?start=40
Those pics show the NoIR goggles that block out all red, as well a wonderful pair that used to have OD1.5+ (great for hobbyist red use, you don't really need more than that at 150mW) but unfortunately are no longer sold at attractive pricing.

I don't know why WL claims the goggles from NoIR are 2.5OD. Last time I heard word from Steve of WL about these goggles, I was told the last ones I received would be the only ones they would stock from then on. The ones I have are clearly NoIRs 'KRR' goggles and WL's site even confirms this - although the wrong OD chart is displayed (whether accidentally or intentionally is something I don't know, or feel is pertinent to the conversation). You can read about the KRR filters here:
http://www.noirlaser.com/filters/krr.html
As you can see, the filter is rated OD 5+ across 606-694nm, and for the 660nm red most of us use, the OD appears to be around 6 - letting less than a millionth of the light through and explaining the visibility issue. (NoIR has the same issue with the goggles that are sold by NovaLasers for green although the spot is slightly visible as a yellow fluorescing dot - you can actually see pics of that on the 2nd page of my photobucket site I linked above).


And while I can't provide pics, I'll try to give a rough idea of my test method: red diode lasers ~660nm were used for their ability to be very stable without active cooling. All tests were conducted on a Coherent Inc. FieldMax II TO power meter with a PM3Q power sensor with a 0.050mW sensitivity/resolution. Several lasers were tested across the 40-300mW range (unfortunately I only got to try a 900mW 660nm whilst in passing to a customer  ) to make sure figures were consistent.

In the end, the test I used to derive the numbers was from my PGL-III 660nm putting out ~290mW (200mW versions of this unit were sold by laserglow for $589 as the Orion). Power was tested with the laser shining through the goggles into the sensor, and given enough time it stabilized at ~0.575mW. I then removed the goggles and measured a reading of 293mW. Mathematically, that corresponds to an OD of around 2.707. My claim of OD 2.5-3.0 corresponds to a potential range of readings from 290 to 917 microwatts through the goggles from my 290mW laser - a range in which my 575 microwatt reading, although not perfectly stable or precise, fit comfortably enough within that I felt safe to make the OD 2.5-3.0 claim.

Noticing no burning patterns refracted through the goggles like I have seen shining while powerful green lasers at 532nm goggles, I furthered the test and ran my 290mW laser through the goggles into the power meter for over 10 minutes to ensure the power output held stable and consistent.


So yeah. I'd also like to point out that I do this in the name of the goggles I have recommended for so long, and even sold from time to time. I have no interest in saying either SenKat or Electron are right in their argument, I simply want to make sure the long held truths about the lasershades are not tarnished by the misinformation that flies out from a silly argument.

If you have any questions or complaints on the topic of the goggles or my test methods, feel free to ask/shout them to me. I wish I could provide pics and vids backing this up to, but I really have better things to spend my weekend doing. There's the old addage "a picture is worth a thousand words", so I can only hope my thousand words can work in reverse to paint the picture you need.



PS: Don't worry, my English it typically worse than yours and I AM from an english-speaking country  

erdabyz said:

pseudonomen137, pictures of the testing process, please.
I said it before, I WANNA SEE WITH MY (hope undamaged) EYES HOW GOOD OR HOW BAD ARE LaserShades. I won't trust anybody since I see something real (photo, video...). The only thing I can belive in this moment is that certified is better than not certified. And since I'm planning to make a BR DIY, i'll probably buy certified 405+650 goggles and sell the lasershades.

I'M GETTING CRAZIER BY MOMENTS with this trouble.

Ahm, another question.

NOiR Sprot elite claim to be 2.5OD. Okai, if LaserShades are 2.7 OD, then why don't you see anything red with Sport elites and you can perfectly see the spot with LaserShades, if LaserShades have more OD?

Sorry, i know my english is bad (i'm not from an english speaking country). I put all my efforts to spell correctly.


EDIT:To make things clear, I don't know anyone of you, I don't know if you have personal problems or if you hate eachother, and I don't wanna know it. And i'm not gonna get influenced by your personal discussions. So please, if you want to really help me, stop personal attacks and all similar BS.

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