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Old 04-15-2010, 04:39 AM #33
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

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I wheeled a pressure washer around my neighborhood and pressure washed driveways for 50 bucks a piece

I also had a pulsar and another fusion I bought used, I've sold both of those though.

I've tried selling my lasers to people at bars and clubs. They think its amazing till you tell them the price lol
Nice, I'm trying to find either a CNI pen or Opto pen, it seems as if people dont have it anymore.


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Old 04-18-2010, 11:01 PM #34
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

souljasai, I have DL Viper 95 (CNI GLP) that's fairly overspec but in terrible external condition (I don't know if you care about the finish). Let me know if you're interested...

oh and regarding the whole "selling lasers to people who think it's worth a ton of money", that could actually work in various places... some people are just rich (and believe me when you live the Los Angeles area, you encounter quite a few) and would be more than willing to cough up a grand on the spot for a "whoa-you-can-see-the-beam, omfg-it-burns!!" 100mW Green Pen (heck even an O-like, i'll bet!). I should probably try something like that sometime... it might take a while, but I'm sure i'll find success eventually

and of course I would include safety glasses and give them a safety briefing first

peace & thanks
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:52 PM #35
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

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I don't think that you should have to be 18 to own a laser, but I do think that there should be some sort of license required in order to own a Class 3B or Class 4 laser. I'm 16, and I know a lot of people that would point a laser at their eyes and their friends eyes, even if they know the risks. For example, I told one of my friends about a 2W IR laser I am building as well as the risks that go along with it (I told him that it would be more than 2000 times stronger than a Dollar Tree pointer), and he responded with an, "Oh, that would blind you instantly, wouldn't it? Oh, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to point it at my arm!" and then started laughing. He's normally quite responsible, but apparently I overestimated his capability of understanding plain-and-simple danger. I know that if he were required to read a handbook and take a knowledge then he would be a little more responsible, but I'm not sure that would be enough for everybody. I think the license would need to require something like an Oregon Driver's License would: not only a knowledge test, but also a demonstrative test showing you can physically handle a laser in a safe, efficient manner. That's just me though, I know many of you will disagree.
I agree. I'm only 12 but handle lasers very well and own 3 pairs of anti green and anti red focal price goggles. It's all about what the children are taught. If they don't know what they are talking about or doing, just simply don't hand it to them or get a laser with a keylock.
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:13 AM #36
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

I'll only let my friends that haven't had more than 1 DUI or 3 misdemeanors use my lasers.
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:19 AM #37
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

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I'll only let my friends that haven't had more than 1 DUI or 3 misdemeanors use my lasers.
Damn, I'm out.
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:37 AM #38
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

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I agree. I'm only 12 but handle lasers very well and own 3 pairs of anti green and anti red focal price goggles. It's all about what the children are taught. If they don't know what they are talking about or doing, just simply don't hand it to them or get a laser with a keylock.
Indeed - the key factor is grasping the possible dangers and acting on those, regardless of age.

I feel that people often thing that something so cheap and available cannot pose a danger - for $30 or so you can get a lser that poses a serious eye hazard and even disrupt air traffic if you aim for planes.

Everyone should realize that its perfectly feasible to kill yourself or someone else with a $5 hammer that you can get at any store around the corner.

Another factor is that people are not aware of what modern diode lasers can actually do. I've lit matches with 200 mW or so lasers in front of adult friends to demonstrate that point, and most of them were flabbergasted by the concept that a device so small and cheap can do that.

Luckily that did get the point across since they are all uni grads - the average reaction being something like 'do you dare even aiming that near my eyes!'.
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:27 AM #39
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

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Indeed - the key factor is grasping the possible dangers and acting on those, regardless of age.

I feel that people often thing that something so cheap and available cannot pose a danger - for $30 or so you can get a lser that poses a serious eye hazard and even disrupt air traffic if you aim for planes.

Everyone should realize that its perfectly feasible to kill yourself or someone else with a $5 hammer that you can get at any store around the corner.

Another factor is that people are not aware of what modern diode lasers can actually do. I've lit matches with 200 mW or so lasers in front of adult friends to demonstrate that point, and most of them were flabbergasted by the concept that a device so small and cheap can do that.

Luckily that did get the point across since they are all uni grads - the average reaction being something like 'do you dare even aiming that near my eyes!'.
Nice laser, and good point. I can't afford anymore lasers because my parents don't have jobs. Unwise people are a problem too. My friends point their cheap IR filled lasers at my eyes. I had to literally lecture them since they brought my prescription up.
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:34 AM #40
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

I know of a shop near me that's selling fairly poor quality imitation NewWish laser pens for 33. That's equivalent to $55. They're advertised as "<50mW" but i doubt it since my FocalPrice "<50mW" which obviously wasn't 50mW because it's from focal price and i celotaped an IR filter over the top of it, appeared brighter. It is very easy to sell someone something they've never seen before expensively.

I have mixed feelings about this. I think they should test intelligence, common sense and ability to understand and obey warnings. I have no idea how they would test that, but it would be nice if they could. Intelligence alone won't cut it, my sister's boyfriend (14-15, i think) is getting A*s in all his science modules (exams) which isn't such an easy thing to do, not difficulty - i mean i did it - but not easy either. I was mucking around with a cheapie that i'd bought because after my first laser broke i was getting withdrawal symptoms and had to play with some coherent light. I was being careful to keep it away from him but he took it from my hand and the first thing he did was yell "RETINA SCAN!!" and shine it into my eyes. My girlfriend punched him and took it off him. Later that same meal i was showing everyone everything i keep in my pockets and i put my zippo on the table briefly and he snatched it and was lighting it. He got another punch for that.

The problem with licensing lasers is that relatively few people have them and it's cheaper and less time-consuming just to apply a blanket ban than to use licensing. What's more, once they started licsensing lasers they'd have to start making licenses for far more dangerous things that are far more common, like lighter-refill cylinders, deoderant cans and alcoholic beverages.

On the other hand, we live in a world where the edges are becomming more and more filed down. That's largely a good thing. The other day I was on a tube train (i think you guys call it a subway or metro or something) and i was looking through a window down the carriages and watching the train turn a corner. Alll the carriages flexed in relation to eachother and the entire thing seemed to curve at an angle that, to look at, was absolutely terrifying. But i am able to safely assume "the people that built it knew what they were doing, it won't disconnect itsself and spin off and kill us" and feel safe. Sometimes things do go wrong, and something breaks and someone ends up hurt, but it's comparitively rare. While i could be like a conspiracy theorist and look at it all and say "it's decreasing in quality! it's just waiting to fall apart and then you'll be sorry" and blame the government, i don't. I am able to accept accidents are relatively rare.

What i object to is that safety features are outweighing functionality in a lot of cases. In my Physics class there is a lab-style laser that's 1mW in power and really, really divergeant. Peice of crap. It's got a keyswitch. The keyswitch is a little faulty, so we've got ourselves a half-working laser that keeps turning off the whole time. That's really frustrating because it would be hard to get any damage at all done with that, but there's a big deal made that because it's a laser and it's lab-style it looks scary. There are less divergeant presentation-pointers attached to all the whiteboard remotes in the school and they have equally powered lasers and no keyswitch. The keyswitch probably doubled the price on it too.

One time when i was about 8 we had a guest over and her son who was about 5. I picked up a pair of scissors which i was going to use for something and he gasped. Not-being-stupid is enough of a safety precaution against you hurting yourself with scissors, and yet this boy had been taught as though they were insanely dangerous. That's another thing i object to. A population that is afraid of everything. An example of this is in the big deal made of the swine-flu outbreak. I know, it's contraversial and many of you may disagree with me saying this, but fear of swine-flu was irrational. It was more infectious than normal flu because it infected the upper respiratory tract, but that in turn made it less likely to kill you. In this country there is a 1000x statistically higher chance that you will die of slipping over in a bath or shower than of swine flu and about the same chance of you getting struck by lightning. But people hyped. Sales of hand disinfectant that were otherwise only bought by hospitals and the OCD went through the roof and posters were put up everywhere. My girlfriend's dad who works doing deliveries for hospitals even told us to stay indoors. Ridiculous. My sister had it and even after it cleared up she wasn't allowed to go to join in with a music course that she would happily have given up Christmas, her birthday, and Easter to go on.

What's the solution? To be honest, i don't think there is one. Safety features are necessary for everything to run correctly and for people to possess that trust that societies are based around, at the same time being educated in a school that possesses such safety features is going to result in a population that will swallow safety advice whether it's given to them by a reliable source or a newspaper they found on the train. Somewhere the balance has to be set, and in every society it's set differently. Here you are not allowed to own a gun unless it's kept in a sealed metal box bolted to the wall and in America that is different. Here it is a health-and-safety guideline that shops are not supposed to sell lasers that are more than 1mW in power. In China that is different. While it's important that we accept these bounds that are set, in a way it's also necessary that a few people will challenge them so that we can possess enjoyable hobbies like playing with laser pointers and constructing mains-powered circuits which will also help us to become more intelligent, able people.

Woah! I wrote a lo-o-ot! Speech over, you can all return to what you were doing before you started reading this.
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Old 04-19-2010, 06:48 PM #41
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

@JaiNobeZ- "While it's important that we accept these bounds that are set, in a way it's also necessary that a few people will challenge them so that we can possess enjoyable hobbies"

I believe you should never give in. Challenge everything you think is screwed up.

But here is why age does not mater for purchasing lasers.
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:53 PM #42
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

Where did you get my picture?!!?!?!?
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Old 04-19-2010, 10:06 PM #43
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

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@JaiNobeZ- "While it's important that we accept these bounds that are set, in a way it's also necessary that a few people will challenge them so that we can possess enjoyable hobbies"

I believe you should never give in. Challenge everything you think is screwed up.

But here is why age does not mater for purchasing lasers.
Well, i guess it's partly about age and partly about how many relatives had to interbreed to produce them.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:50 AM #44
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

The solution is to hold the parents responsible for their children's actions. I also don't mean the lame "released to their parents" crap that goes on just because the child is a minor; I mean all the fines, jail terms, terrorism charges, etc. charged as an adult that go along with misuse of lasers (or anything for that matter) get passed onto the parents. After all, those parents are the ones who are legally responsible for their kids, and the ones who have neglected the obligations required of the privilege of being a parent. Sure, kids may not know better, but their parents should, and they should: 1) know what their kids are doing, 2) supervise the use of any dangerous equipment, or disallow it, 3) ingrain in their children the responsibility of being a member of civilized society so they're not tempted to be a nuisance or danger.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:55 AM #45
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

Wow... honestly I didn't expect this thread to get so many replies or even last as long as it has. Then again safety is a big issue when it's about something potentially dangerous.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:51 AM #46
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

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Originally Posted by Bionic-Badger View Post
The solution is to hold the parents responsible for their children's actions. I also don't mean the lame "released to their parents" crap that goes on just because the child is a minor; I mean all the fines, jail terms, terrorism charges, etc. charged as an adult that go along with misuse of lasers (or anything for that matter) get passed onto the parents. After all, those parents are the ones who are legally responsible for their kids, and the ones who have neglected the obligations required of the privilege of being a parent. Sure, kids may not know better, but their parents should, and they should: 1) know what their kids are doing, 2) supervise the use of any dangerous equipment, or disallow it, 3) ingrain in their children the responsibility of being a member of civilized society so they're not tempted to be a nuisance or danger.
That's true, besides how would a kid order anything online and get it without his parents knowing? Also how would a kid hide something like a laser, especially at these power levels. I know some kids will find workarounds to a lot of stuff, but parents should not let those workarounds be there!
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:07 AM #47
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

When I was 11-13 I was 3rEet on aol2.5-3.5. I had so many phish,cc,ssn, it was crazy. And no my parents had no idea anybody could do that stuff, kids can hide anything from you easily and buy whatever they want easily.

Woot to all the other washed up mid 20 somthing aol programers on here.
This forum seems like the kind of place we would end up.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:51 PM #48
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Default Re: Why Children shouldn't be allowed to own a laser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontiacg5 View Post
That's true, besides how would a kid order anything online and get it without his parents knowing? Also how would a kid hide something like a laser, especially at these power levels. I know some kids will find workarounds to a lot of stuff, but parents should not let those workarounds be there!
If a minor wanted to discreetly purchase things online (e.g. High-powered l4z0rs), he or she could create a PayPal not linked to a banking account or credit card, and either make money online (directly sent to his account) or make money IRL and then transfer it to his account via PP cards sold in stores (they're kinda like iTunes gift cards). Then he or she must simply order through PayPal and keep their mouth shut about things to a certain extent. Fortunately this is far from the situation I'm in, but I do have several friends in situations similar to what I have described, and they have been ever-grateful for my advice

however I do think the discreet ordering wasn't exactly for lasers...

peace & thanks
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