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Old 02-23-2010, 04:24 AM #1
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Default using another entity's variance?

This may seem like a strange question, but it is legally possible to use another entity's (say, an astronomy club's) variance instead of having to get one yourself?

I know this is possible in certain industries. For example, someone who wants shoot professional fireworks will need to acquire an ATF permit. Getting one, though, is a lengthy process. However, in some events, such as the Western Winter Blast, a person legally can shoot professional fireworks using an organization's permit - in this case, the Western Pyrotechnic Association. Do laser laws have similar provisions?

As far as I am aware, a person operating lasers under a variance is legally responsible for every laser in the vicinity. If a laser show operator holds a "laser event" and makes sure that every attendee knows how to use a laser safely, can the show operator let them use his/her (the operator's) lasers, even if other people do not have a variance?


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Old 02-23-2010, 02:42 PM #2
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Default Re: using another entity's variance?

No, you have to be a employee and trained on the gear in question.

Read the back end of this:

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/doc...a0006-vol1.pdf

So just because XYZ corp has a variance, this doesn't mean Sicklasers can phone up XYZ and just beg, borrow, or steal gear.
There is a rule about being a paid employee of the other company, you can't just be a volunteer... And the gear has to have a accession number. It has be listed on the company or individual's variance. XYZ can amend their variance to use Sicklaser's approved gear, but it must be done well in advance...

Under a few rare circumstances, gear can be leased, But the variance holder is the responsible party, and the end user must be trained and the show reports filed. Its not to be a means to escape the rules..


If another laser is in the room, and your a variance holder, or a employee, your still responsible for laser safety in the facility...
Including non-varianced gear. If you take a pointer above IIIA to my gig, and I see it in use, I have to cease MY show and go kill your pointer... If some DJ or lighting type shows up with a Chauvet Fatbeam, and audience scans with it, I have a conflict, and out it goes, or I go...

I have a friend who subcontracted another laserist for a big gig. A state inspector came through and found the varianced subcontractor up on a scaffold, and exposing himself to in excess of class IIIA from two projectors at the same time, through the joys of DMX...

My buddy got the citation, and the fine, NOT the contractor.. My friend was not on site at the time, and the contractor was setting up. Still, my friend was the LSO and State Licensee of Record... He took the hit...

I am also aware of a incident, where a company was out to get their competition. So Company X was running a show. Company Y had a employee show up at the gig and act all friendly.. Company Y's employee asked company X's employee if he could hold a grating in a beam by hand. Company X's guy said, sure friend, NO problemo.. Company Y's second guy had video of Company X's guy letting his visitor hit buttons and hold a grating in a beam during a public show.... Care to guess who got in massive trouble...
It was not Y...

You can't hit buttons as a guest... You have to be a employee and trained on the gear in use per the manual..
Everybody I know has a employee sign a sheet that they have been warned and trained on the responsibilities.

You cant even sell the gear unless your varianced...
See:

http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/De.../ucm094445.htm

I helped my friend at the really big show mentioned above. I got a call a few weeks later from the state inspector requesting me to fax him a copy of my training paperwork. I did, and it saved my friend bigtime.. I then got asked questions from the product manual.....

So no blanket, the Laser safety Officer is the room, go have fun stuff....
It has to be approved equipment as well.

You have to have THE training, Proscribed in THE manual , for the specific GEAR IN USE and be a employee.

And there are no variances for astronomy, unless your using a fixed guidestar laser or LIDAR... You can't get a variance for a pointer, to be waved around the sky...


The pointer is NOT a laser you can use with a variance. Under the law, a pointer up to Class IIIA is demonstration laser that is used per the conditions imposed on the manufacturer to insure safety. The manufacturer of a approved, legal pointer, filed blanket paperwork, keeps records, and its assumed and required that it will not exceed class I, class IIB, or IIIA when shipped. Its supposed to be low power and intrinsically safe.

Which is why the "approved" class IIIB Wicked stuff is a LAB laser, not a demonstration device, at least on the paperwork. So if you, the end user, misuse it, your subject to the federal fines, OSHA etc for misusing a lab laser...

FAA and CDRH rules are very firm on what, when and where you can emit a beam into any airspace, and navigational airspace is anywhere from the ground up, outdoors. Even if my beams are terminated in a concrete courtyard, I have to report if I'm outdoors and get the FAA approval.. So if you use a greater then IIIA laser, (well these days any laser) and put it into airspace, your in for a world of hurt if you get caught...

What we do at a indoor, laserists only, non public, non paid event, is another matter. But I fully expect it to reflect on me if someone is injured while I'm in the room...

Steve

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Old 02-23-2010, 03:16 PM #3
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Default Re: using another entity's variance?

Wow Steve, I never even thought of this. Good to know.
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:25 PM #4
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Default Re: using another entity's variance?

That's some great info, cheers for taking the time too type all that up lol, it's like a mini novel.

Working at a laser show would be awesome fun.

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