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Old 07-24-2013, 09:51 PM #17
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

Quote:
Unfortunately I don't think the number of people that are laser hobbyists is great enough to swing any vote.
I'd bet the authorities are banking on that very statement my friend

Fox hunting with dogs is banned here now (I don't happen to support fox hunting but that's academic)

100,000 or so people organised a protest march in our capital to protest the ban, and did so a number of times to voice their protest. It made no difference and the ban went through. If that had been say 2,000,000 people (well, 2,000,000 registered voters) you can bet it would have never even got to the reading stage.
Evidence seems to make no difference when it comes to legislation, thus far no aircraft has been shown to be downed by a civilian laser pointer, no person has been killed, and as far as the UK no serious injury has been caused by an illegal act with laser pointer (a few dumba**es have likely been damaged by stupidity) but we have a restriction on importing pointers based on what? fresh air and hypothetical possibilities from what I can see.
The law just doesn't make sense, I can buy huge power IR laser tubes all day if I like, as a company director I can buy any power laser pointer I want but as a private individual I'm not supposed to bring anything over 5mW into the country.

I actually wonder if at the mention of "Laser" our lawmakers in the EU think right away of the Star Wars Death Star!

I'm writing up a nice long submission for the link at the top trying to explain why the logic of banning pointers in Sweden is badly thought out, I doubt for one moment it will make any difference but better to try and fail than later on say "I should have".

best wishes

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:37 PM #18
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

On the whole notion of swinging at windmills, I just called my congressman's office telling him to support an amendment that would de-fund the NSA.

As far as laser pointers go, and them presenting a danger to aviation (the main reasoning for the ban that could be used to justify it) remote control airplanes are infinitely more dangerous.

As are tall buildings.

And geese.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:51 PM #19
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

Quote:
And geese.
More people died in the UK last year watering imitation Christmas Trees while they were plugged in than have died in the entirety of history from laser strikes

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Old 07-24-2013, 10:53 PM #20
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

Caution... Carlin is fond of profanity...



Problem is... is one to do?

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:10 PM #21
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

I shudder for the day when I could be asked by a patrolling officer "Sir, do you have a laser permit to be operating that?"
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:20 PM #22
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

Quote:
Problem is...wth is one to do?
No idea brother...no idea...

It feels like a group of people standing on a train track sometimes, you can see the light, you can see the oncoming amtrack, you can hear the bells and horns

You just can't get any of them to move as they all believe the train is going to miss them.

Carlin is entertaining the people in the audience and you can almost hear their thoughts "hey , he's right, hahahaha, we ARE all getting shafted hahahah, when the shows over we can go grab a beer and giggle for the rest of the evening hahhaha"

Although he has put it in an entertaining way, everything he is saying is quite correct!!

I've never been and will never be some wild eyed conspiracy theory nut but applying occams razor the only possible outcome is that many of these theories are actually quite true. Before 1906 here the people could pretty much own anything, do anything (within common law) but since then the amount of legislation that has been slipped in and reduced the individuals rights is astounding, Lasers will be just the latest victims of an uneducated populace that on the whole like to believe everything they get fed by the media.

Being Autistic my social skills are somewhat limited, I tend to see things as they are rather than how I have been conditioned to see them (trust me, my wife never asks "does my butt look big in this dress") but I'm amazed on a daily basis by how much of what we do as a race is more what is expected rather than what is logical.

I remember one a recent Uni visit one of the professors said to me "It's not totally black and white Dave, life never is" my response was "Actually Chris, life is completely black and white, it's just most people choose not to see it that way"...he laughed, agreed then went about his day.

For laser pointers unless large swathes of the population can be educated into what they really are and how they have a useful purpose I believe it's likely to be downhill now to a world of regulation and legislation. The question is...how do we (I use lasers every day though not pointers as such but I'm still likely to be affected by it eventually) educate the people?

best wishes

Dave
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:45 PM #23
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

The sad thing is when they ask for comments they're really saying "we've already decided we're going to do this but we're required by law to have a comment period." Of course any and all opposing comments will be summarily ignored.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:30 AM #24
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloompyle View Post
I shudder for the day when I could be asked by a patrolling officer "Sir, do you have a laser permit to be operating that?"
He won't ask you. Best case scenario is he'll confiscate the laser, and write you a citation. Worst case, arrest you for causing a public disturbance. At some point months later if you are found not guilty, or the charges are dropped, you will have the option of filing some paperwork to get your laser back. All the while you should pray that the laser hasn't been misplaced or disposed of for public safety reasons.

Or conversely he'll "suggest" that you give up the laser "voluntarily".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky View Post
No idea brother...no idea...

It feels like a group of people standing on a train track sometimes, you can see the light, you can see the oncoming amtrack, you can hear the bells and horns

You just can't get any of them to move as they all believe the train is going to miss them.

Carlin is entertaining the people in the audience and you can almost hear their thoughts "hey , he's right, hahahaha, we ARE all getting shafted hahahah, when the shows over we can go grab a beer and giggle for the rest of the evening hahhaha"

Although he has put it in an entertaining way, everything he is saying is quite correct!!

I've never been and will never be some wild eyed conspiracy theory nut but applying occams razor the only possible outcome is that many of these theories are actually quite true. Before 1906 here the people could pretty much own anything, do anything (within common law) but since then the amount of legislation that has been slipped in and reduced the individuals rights is astounding, Lasers will be just the latest victims of an uneducated populace that on the whole like to believe everything they get fed by the media.

Being Autistic my social skills are somewhat limited, I tend to see things as they are rather than how I have been conditioned to see them (trust me, my wife never asks "does my butt look big in this dress") but I'm amazed on a daily basis by how much of what we do as a race is more what is expected rather than what is logical.

I remember one a recent Uni visit one of the professors said to me "It's not totally black and white Dave, life never is" my response was "Actually Chris, life is completely black and white, it's just most people choose not to see it that way"...he laughed, agreed then went about his day.

For laser pointers unless large swathes of the population can be educated into what they really are and how they have a useful purpose I believe it's likely to be downhill now to a world of regulation and legislation. The question is...how do we (I use lasers every day though not pointers as such but I'm still likely to be affected by it eventually) educate the people?

best wishes

Dave
I do believe that transparency, and education are the key to true progress.

I also think that with the advent of the internet, more and more people from all walks of life, are finally starting to see that the train is on a set of tracks, and it will not miss them.

Btw, I'm also rather socially awkward, but man, you good sir are braver than I am if you told your wife the truth to that question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtKernelPanic View Post
The sad thing is when they ask for comments they're really saying "we've already decided we're going to do this but we're required by law to have a comment period." Of course any and all opposing comments will be summarily ignored.
True, but the least we can do is to try and comment. I'll be bumping this thread on a regular basis should it ever not be very current and near the top.

What really, really concerns me, is that law is also somewhat retroactive, and even possession becomes illegal.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:44 AM #25
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

Quote:
What really, really concerns me, is that law is also somewhat retroactive
That's exactly what bothers me, retroactive laws were originally in this country illegal as it was not possible to turn the law abiding into criminals by changing the law. Sadly that has become moot these days with laws often being passed that do just that.

Strange how say in the case of the US, something that was lawfully purchased, state sales TAX paid to the government when it was purchased can be made illegal (hence worthless legally) and the government keep the tax they got in the first place.

Here we have VAT at 20%, if I buy something in a shop 20% of the money I pay goes to the government, if the item I buy is later banned are the government going to give me my 20% back?

best wishes

Dave
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:47 AM #26
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

I would be okay not being able to buy or sell any lasers at all. But possession should not be illegal for those knowledgeable enough to build them!
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:56 AM #27
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

Unfortunately while our Constitution is supposed to prevent retroactive laws, the legal reality is somewhat different.

Ex post facto law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't know what that case is in Sweden.

Regarding the original 10 amendments... only four still offer any kind of protection, and those are being eroded as well.

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Old 07-25-2013, 03:13 AM #28
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

I did my part too. Sent off an informative email to both addresses. Here's hoping it helps!
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:10 PM #29
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

I think the situation will be similar to that in Australia: it will be illegal to possess certain lasers, but the law generally won't be enforced except maybe at customs. People who use lasers responsibly will be able to continue to do so without too much police harassment.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:44 PM #30
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

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Originally Posted by ixfd64 View Post
I think the situation will be similar to that in Australia: it will be illegal to possess certain lasers, but the law generally won't be enforced except maybe at customs. People who use lasers responsibly will be able to continue to do so without too much police harassment.
In Australia the law is enforced though, and not just at the borders. There was a case of a guy on here getting in trouble for simply having lasers at home.

There was another more recent case in the news, of where a traffic stop resulted in them finding a cheapo laser in a backpack, and making an issue of it.

That's the really scary thing about any kind of law that references making possession illegal - that any such law, once implemented works to turn people automatically into criminals.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:47 PM #31
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

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In Australia the law is enforced though, and not just at the borders. There was a case of a guy on here getting in trouble for simply having lasers at home.
This one?
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:54 PM #32
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Default Re: Sweden proposes banning pointers >1 mW; asking for comments by Oct 4 2013

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This one?
Yup, that's the one.
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