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Old 11-10-2015, 01:43 PM #1
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Default So sick of the government

So, it seems the government of my country is now trying to place lasers on the same levels as owning illegal weaponry such as guns. Their reason for this is that people are pointing on aircraft taking off or landing at the airport. I'm so done with this shit. Can't they for a change throw offenders in jail and let others enjoy the hobby? It's getting close to not even being able to point outside at all anymore, cause I'll be facing years of jailtime if I do.

Any opinions on this? I'm seriously considering moving my ass to another country somewhere to avoid all this bullshit.


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Old 11-10-2015, 02:26 PM #2
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Default Re: So sick of the government

Quote:
Originally Posted by gozert View Post
So, it seems the government of my country is now trying to place lasers on the same levels as owning illegal weaponry such as guns. Their reason for this is that people are pointing on aircraft taking off or landing at the airport. I'm so done with this shit. Can't they for a change throw offenders in jail and let others enjoy the hobby? It's getting close to not even being able to point outside at all anymore, cause I'll be facing years of jailtime if I do.

Any opinions on this? I'm seriously considering moving my ass to another country somewhere to avoid all this bullshit.

I don't know how the political system over there works, but why don't you go to your MP or whatever the equivalent there is and talk to them about it? Offer some suggestions or solutions to the issue that works for both parties. Could be education, fines/imprisonment for offenders, some fairly simple licensing structure - maybe similar to the ham radio license in many places.
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Last edited by diachi; 11-10-2015 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 11-10-2015, 02:54 PM #3
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Default Re: So sick of the government

That's the issue here. They won't listen to some random guy telling them how it is because they think they know better. The only way to make a difference would be to get a large group of people and try talking to them. Problem with that is that there are too many idiot over here who don't give a damn and very few actual hobbyists. My idea is having a license structure, nothing more nothing less. Why would we be allowed to own a gun with the proper license but not a laser? Yeah, beats me but that's how it is for now.
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Old 11-10-2015, 02:57 PM #4
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Default Re: So sick of the government

Quote:
Originally Posted by gozert View Post
That's the issue here. They won't listen to some random guy telling them how it is because they think they know better.

Need to start somewhere There are a lot of laserists over there, just not many of them on here. They are either on the Laserist Facebook group or on PL. I know what you're saying though.

I think licensing is a good idea and is an option that more countries should look at. As I said, something similar to the ham radio license exam, at least here in Canada, would be good. That would show at least a basic understanding of the technology, regulations and safety requirements.

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Why would we be allowed to own a gun with the proper license but not a laser? Yeah, beats me but that's how it is for now.
This exactly - that should be your argument!

Unless they then think "Why should anyone need a gun!" and ban those too.
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Last edited by diachi; 11-10-2015 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:04 PM #5
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Default Re: So sick of the government

It is sad to see it but the more people act like children, the more government is stepping in and acting like stern parents. More and more liberties are being taken away. Like a lobster being boiled alive in a pot and it is clueless to the fact until the lid is clamped down tight.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:28 PM #6
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Default Re: So sick of the government

There are many things the government makes illegal which should be up to the discretion of the individual to use wisely, or foolishly. We all potentially pay the price for how law works making examples out of those they wish to go after, and individually when they go after us personally. The way humanity handles problems is just a couple of notches above stone age mentality, especially when it comes to the war on drugs which makes victims out of people instead of helping them, the law doing more harm than the drug in most cases.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:52 PM #7
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Default Re: So sick of the government

Lasers are used in so much technology, I don't see how they can outright ban them, what about owning a media projector, or a party projector, or even a pico projector? A person could end up with a defective pico projector that throws beams??

What is the exact letter of the law....can you find a loophole?
The airplane pointer idiots won't look, and once they all get picked off things will quiet down.

You either have to take it head on and fight it or lay low and wait for the winds of change to blow, but it's hard to get anything back from government.

What about professional laser show equipment, can you get a license for that?

What will probably happen here in the US is it will all get expensive, only those who can pay the annual license fees and insurance will be permitted, but we haven't crossed that bridge just yet, but I see it through the fog, hopefully we don't go that route.

First discover the exact letter of your laws, then look for loopholes and exemptions, your hobby may get expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_Netherlands

A person may want to keep thier lasers indoors for a while, maybe even build them into a clock radio or old style camcorder until the outrage dies down, your political system is different so I'm not sure how to tell you to fight, you might be better off to try and get a waiver, but in your case you may want to tread lightly for now.

I would look into professional light show equipment and discover what a presenter in your region is required to do to be legal, see if there are different levels of license, you may want to give it time, I would want to fight for freedom, but our systems of government are different...none are getting any better, except for China, their people are slowly gaining freedom after getting a taste of capitalism and they like it.

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Old 11-10-2015, 07:01 PM #8
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Default Re: So sick of the government

Yes lasers are used in much of our technology now. They will never ban the ones used in our consumer electronics, they aren't accessible anyway unless you're smart enough to know how to take it apart and build a stand alone laser. They will never ban lab lasers either, they are too important for scientific labs and educational institutions and many different purposes, lasers also have many medical uses. Maybe they might put some restrictions on them but they won't ban them. It's only the battery powered hand held lasers that we all like that are in danger of being banned. You would still be able to get the parts to build one yourself.

Lasers are one of the most important technological developments ever, like the discovery of electricity, the internal combustion engine, flight, radio, element 92 and what we can do with it, etc. Lasers aren't going anywhere.

Many people make their own guns now, firearms are not an advanced technology anymore and it's easy to get parts or make some of the parts yourself. The IRA for a time manufactured some 9mm machine guns, the Chechnyans make some of their own weapons, there was a documentary I saw a few years ago about the weapons trade in the tribal regions of northern Pakistan, they manufacture a variety of high quality weapons, there are people that run a business out of their home making one part and selling to whoever assembles and sells the finished weapon. There are web sites detailing how to make guns and even ammo too. There are even videos on YouTube, there are some people that made shotguns from $40 of parts from the hardware store.

Am not suggesting anyone do this, am just saying that these things become possible once a technology is no longer something so advanced and becomes commonplace.

I have been researching rail guns and coil guns and I think I could build a rail gun that could fire projectiles at over 1000fps, it would be larger than any normal rifle and not so portable but it can be done. I don't intend to build one due to lack of money and I don't have easy access to a place to test it. Due to emerging technologies I predict that conventional chemical propelant firearms will one day become obsolete.

One day it may be possible to build Star Trek type of phasers, no doubt they will be illegal or restricted, buy one day it will be possible.

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Old 11-10-2015, 08:28 PM #9
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Default Re: So sick of the government

Gozert, as a fellow dutchie, I haven't heard anything about this. Do you have a source or anything? I did a quick search on google too, but didn't find anything.
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Old 11-10-2015, 08:59 PM #10
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Default Re: So sick of the government

Pretty much all possession laws are redundant if you think about it. If you assault or kill someone with a gun you didn't buy legally... guess what, there are already laws regarding that.

Seems that Netherlands is following the lead of other nations in overcriminalization. Sorry to see it happen.
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Old 11-10-2015, 09:09 PM #11
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Default Re: So sick of the government

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Gozert, as a fellow dutchie, I haven't heard anything about this. Do you have a source or anything? I did a quick search on google too, but didn't find anything.
It was an article in "De Telegraaf" I believe. My dad showed me it. Will see if I can find it. It basically told how dangerous pointing at aircraft is at takeoff and that they're considering categorizing is as illegal weaponry. It also told there were >300 incidents last year.

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Pretty much all possession laws are redundant if you think about it. If you assault or kill someone with a gun you didn't buy legally... guess what, there are already laws regarding that.

Seems that Netherlands is following the lead of other nations in overcriminalization. Sorry to see it happen.
Exactly that. Could take a while before they implement it, but it'll probably come eventually.



Edit: Well it seems it's been all over the news today my parents just told me. This is fucked. Don't know how bad it is cause I can't find many articles online.
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Last edited by gozert; 11-10-2015 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 11-11-2015, 02:37 AM #12
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Default Re: So sick of the government

Unfortunately it is not just the Netherlands but other countries also. It may take months or even years before it is implemented though. One of the best things to do is educate new laser users and keep using the hand held lasers in a safe manner.
If a ban does ever happen against hand held lasers. I have some really long extension cords. Will look for a light weight labby in a small case
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:47 AM #13
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Default Re: So sick of the government

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Chick View Post
Unfortunately it is not just the Netherlands but other countries also. It may take months or even years before it is implemented though. One of the best things to do is educate new laser users and keep using the hand held lasers in a safe manner.
If a ban does ever happen against hand held lasers. I have some really long extension cords. Will look for a light weight labby in a small case
Don't give people ideas like that, they may have to ban long extension cords.

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Old 11-12-2015, 01:10 AM #14
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Default Re: So sick of the government

There is some context to this story though:

I appears someone is purposely pointing a laser pen at aircraft landing on one of amsterdam airports runways. The location is in the extended direction of the runway so this is actually quite visible to airliners landing on that runway.

I'm not sure of the motivation behind it all, but some people that live along the route planes take to land and depart are pretty pissed off by the noise. I think it's likely this is actually someone that chose to annoy pilots with a laser pointer. I guess the police should investigate this individual, as endangering (air) traffic is an offense in the netherlands, and doing so purposely using a laser could certainly be prosecuted.
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Old 11-12-2015, 12:14 PM #15
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Default Re: So sick of the government

I'm very sorry to hear about you having to get out of the hobby, I know it sucks. I feel angry and sad for you.

Maybe you would enjoy collecting high power flashlights?
Just a thought. It might be enjoyable for you.
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Old 11-12-2015, 04:23 PM #16
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Default Re: So sick of the government

Do we know of any way to do a workaround for this? For example; if you build/sell lasers online and register as a business then you are allowed to possess them in the Netherlands provided that you dont sell to anyone in the netherlands.

I would really love to help gozert be able to enjoy the hobby. He helped me out with all my questions when i joined and would hate to see him go.

Last edited by kcarlson; 11-12-2015 at 04:28 PM. Reason: update
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