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Old 03-20-2015, 03:05 AM #17
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

This is more about dazzling aircraft at night, when pilots rely on their night-adapted vision. Also, when aircraft are within range where a laser could enter the cockpit, they're usually on approach for landing, or during takeoff -- the most important parts of the flight.

I'm all for keeping high powered lasers out of the hands of people who don't appreciate what they have and the safety aspects. I just don't want this issue to escalate into draconian laws like those idiot lawmakers in Australia have passed. Maybe the penalties for abusing lasers should be increased to felony levels to combat this problem.

Also remember that aircraft aren't the only targets for laser abuse. It's dangerous when people get hit by lasers too, especially drivers. Anyone caught trying to blind another person with their laser should be charged with assault.


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Old 03-20-2015, 04:55 AM #18
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

As a pilot with several thousand hours logged, my thoughts on this are the only time a laser could cause a disruption to my ability to pilot an aircraft is after having applied full power and half way down the runway gaining speed to rotate the aircraft off the runway, or when I am landing, just before touching down and while rolling out. For someone to cause me enough problems to make anything dangerous, they would have to be at the end of the runway and pointing straight at my windshield. Most of the people who are flashing aircraft with lasers is when they are already off the ground and several hundred feet to thousands of feet up in the air where the can't flash my windshield directly in front of me, as they will always be at a slant range below me. I'd say 99.9% or more of "laser attacks" are of this type, and although distracting, of no great consequence.

Sure, getting hit could disrupt my night vision, but unless I am in those two critical phases, I don't think it would cause me to crash the aircraft or steer into another one. If I could catch someone flashing me on approach or taking off, I'd be ever so happy to turn them in, but if just flying cross country and flashed, I'd have no problem with it, just consider them idiots and keep going my merry way.
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:41 AM #19
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

According to LPS.com intentional lasing of any aircraft is no longer just a felony it has been a federal Offence since 2014- up to 10 years fed time (every day served) and .$10,000 fine AND the reward for info leading to conviction is $5,000.

I agree with BB- its far too easy for chikdren to get lasers that are way too dangerous-

im sure Sen. Charles Schumer would like to hear from somebody that can explain who 'we' are and how it would be a waste to go after the lasers instead of the laseridiots/

his contact info is easy to locate by search-

I will write him something now-

contact info

his phone-- 202 224 6542
-Mail Chuck | Contact | U.S. Senator Chuck Schumer of New York
www.schumer.senate.gov/contact/email-chuck
As your U.S. Senator, Chuck would like to hear your thoughts, opinions and concerns on the issues. Use this form to contact the Senator or to re-direct you to the ...

http://www.schumer.senate.gov/contact/email-chuck

MY slow connection left me hanging but I WILL send Sen. 'Chuck' an email when at the 'office' friday ( McDs)
Sen. Chuck needs to convo with Dr Chuck (AixiZ laser and a Phd in medical lasers too)
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Old 03-20-2015, 10:33 AM #20
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Default

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
I do wish they'd stick to the glare issue, the real problem, and stop pretending that the laser beam, from the ground to the cockpit, through the windscreen, is going to cause eye DAMAGE.

Its a red herring.

It DOES glare out the cockpit, and IS dangerous for that reason...but its not the same as a close range shot...there's too much beam spread by that point.

If they want to figure out the dose required to do damage, and the power (In a POINTER) needed to do that, and ban everything that powerful on up, fine...if they insist on eye damage as a criterion.

Hi, I am trying to work this out, as I am doing a photo project using lasers pointed horizontally along the ground (in remote places during the middle of the night). The reason I am asking this is so that I can be safe, not the opposite. I am trying to terminate the beam where possible so this is purely a back-up plan should anyone unexpected see the beam in between the source and termination point. Although this is highly unlikely where I plan to be shooting and at the time I plan to shoot.

Is there any documentation or knowledge out there on how different wavelengths/outputs danger diminishes to human eyes over distance? I am trying to work out what I can buy that will be safe (if) seen by anyone from a distance. The distances I am talking about would be anywhere from 50 meters - 500 meters. The lasers I am looking at getting would be a 520nm/100-200mW, 589nm/50-80mW, 445nm/500-1000mW. Oh, and I plan to use a beam expander to increase the diameter of the laser at source to approx 6-8mm. I also hope to reduce the beams divergence so that it doesn't diverge/tapers down (if possible).

Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mark

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Old 03-20-2015, 11:03 AM #21
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

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Originally Posted by kingphoto View Post
Hi, I am trying to work this out, as I am doing a photo project using lasers pointed horizontally along the ground (in remote places during the middle of the night). The reason I am asking this is so that I can be safe, not the opposite. I am trying to terminate the beam where possible so this is purely a back-up plan should anyone unexpected see the beam in between the source and termination point. Although this is highly unlikely where I plan to be shooting and at the time I plan to shoot.

Is there any documentation or knowledge out there on how different wavelengths/outputs danger diminishes to human eyes over distance? I am trying to work out what I can buy that will be safe (if) seen by anyone from a distance. The distances I am talking about would be anywhere from 50 meters - 500 meters. The lasers I am looking at getting would be a 520nm/100-200mW, 589nm/50-80mW, 445nm/500-1000mW. Oh, and I plan to use a beam expander to increase the diameter of the laser at source to approx 6-8mm. I also hope to reduce the beams divergence so that it doesn't diverge/tapers down (if possible).

Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mark
The beam itself is safe to view, it's only if it's pointed directly at you that there is a danger. I doubt very much any of those lasers could cause any eye damage at 500 meters, but a shorter distance than that I don't know. I am not sure there's an answer to your question, it depends on the power density, and that diminishes over distance as the beam expands, this varies a great deal depending on the laser and the lens.

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Old 03-20-2015, 05:11 PM #22
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingphoto View Post
...Is there any documentation or knowledge out there on how different wavelengths/outputs danger diminishes to human eyes over distance? I am trying to work out what I can buy that will be safe (if) seen by anyone from a distance. The distances I am talking about would be anywhere from 50 meters - 500 meters. The lasers I am looking at getting would be a 520nm/100-200mW, 589nm/50-80mW, 445nm/500-1000mW. Oh, and I plan to use a beam expander to increase the diameter of the laser at source to approx 6-8mm. I also hope to reduce the beams divergence so that it doesn't diverge/tapers down (if possible).

Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mark
If you go to this URL: http://www.laserist.org/files/laser-...e_1019x800.jpg you can find a graph for possible eye injury and glare distances for a small 5mw green laser (of which we know, most we buy from China are far higher than that) and this graph showing the distances for a few other power levels for green and some information for red and blue too:



The above graph from: http://www.laserpointersafety.com/pa...-compared.html
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:26 PM #23
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

There seems to be a lot of confusion about seeing 'beams' (safely)

look at this like a laser show-- NOBODY (but staff/crew) will be wearing eyeware at such events - and to date after many many years of USA lasershows etc there has never been an injury-- to be harmed it would require someone to enter a 'dangerzone' and take a hit directly into the eye ( with the center being MANY times more hazardess than any other way)

You actually have a better chance of having gear fall on you than injury by actual laser.

The distance is an important factor- you will always be safe are you move farther away-

Basic 'rules'
3 meter rule- NO beams below that
audience scanning--- just dont do it.
Outdoors within 10 miles of an airport ( very few outdoor shows are now being done) & ALL shows include a show plan filed with FDA and another with FAA. (in USA)

all beams MUST safely terminate on a building, wall, beamstop, etc. (but NOT at ANY windows)

To actually meter the beams requires a much more expensive Laser Power Meter than most all of us own.-- Some wavelength spread very fast- like IR so at distance they are not very dangerous- 405s have a very tight beam- and being concentrted more of a possible hazard AND because our eyes do not 'see' 405nm very well it looks safe to many.

BUT if your 'show' is set up properly and you are never audience scanning all that is not needed but good to fully understand-

hope this helps
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:48 PM #24
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

"I do wish they'd stick to the glare issue, the real problem, and stop pretending that the laser beam, from the ground to the cockpit, through the windscreen, is going to cause eye DAMAGE"

divergence and hand wobble all day. You'd have a better chance of getting eye damage from a camera flash.
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Old 03-20-2015, 11:48 PM #25
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

AGREE
that laser could not possibly cause any REAL eye injury- IMO the two cops from the chopper and the Air Canada Pilot (who they flew to Toronto to see 'thier' doctors) were doing that 'for show' EVEN if i were a pilot- I would be much more concerned on road rage/prank laser incidents- from another vehicle on on the ground or a bridge-

I doubt we will be given accurate info on these 'injuries'--



anyway the owner played his part in this as it was his laser-

and tho his birth certificate sez he is 27 he has the look of a real odd ball.

The actual perp was much older-

there are always exceptions to profiles-

to see how this one plays out in detail go to laserpointersafety.com
there you get the latest updates-
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Old 03-21-2015, 12:34 AM #26
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

Here's information on how to calculate your own lasers' hazard distances, given power, wavelength, and divergence. Useful if you have measured your laser's exact specs


Page I got this from: Laser Pointer Safety - Laser safety calculations
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Old 03-21-2015, 09:27 AM #27
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

Personally I think they should have a laser safety course, much like they have hunters safety. Perhaps even make it required to have certification that you passed to get a high powered laser. It won't stop all the pranksters, but hey, it might make a difference .
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Old 03-21-2015, 07:18 PM #28
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

You're right Alan. History has already proved that! My country has given away loads of weapons to ppl that were on our side but now they aren't. I don't want to get into the politics of it but it was a bad decision that we made IMO. I know we're straying off topic but I just wanted to say I agree.
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:13 AM #29
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

i really hope that they don't do anything with these laser bans, i'm already pissed enough that they banned buckyballs, i dont need someone to tell me i can have a laser either.
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:07 AM #30
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by micheal rosen View Post
i really hope that they don't do anything with these laser bans, i'm already pissed enough that they banned buckyballs, i dont need someone to tell me i can have a laser either.
buckyballs got banned? Wow, all I knew is that I couldn't seem to find them anymore, but they were banned? I guess I can understand why, but if it's dangerous, DON'T FREAKING BUY THE PRODUCT IF YOU HAVE A 3 YEAR OLD SISTER WHO COULD SWALLOW THEM AND DIE. IIRC, a few years ago there was a similar ban on balls that would get huge in water. Of course, some irresponsible parent let their 3 year old play with them, she swallowed them and nearly died. common sense seems to be a rare thing these days. In fact one of the reasons I joined here is because you guys seem to be the only place on the internet who actually has it in abundance.
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:17 AM #31
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2Oxide View Post
buckyballs got banned? Wow, all I knew is that I couldn't seem to find them anymore, but they were banned? I guess I can understand why, but if it's dangerous, DON'T FREAKING BUY THE PRODUCT IF YOU HAVE A 3 YEAR OLD SISTER WHO COULD SWALLOW THEM AND DIE. IIRC, a few years ago there was a similar ban on balls that would get huge in water. Of course, some irresponsible parent let their 3 year old play with them, she swallowed them and nearly died. common sense seems to be a rare thing these days. In fact one of the reasons I joined here is because you guys seem to be the only place on the internet who actually has it in abundance.
im starting to notice that too... haven't found a single really stupid person on this whole forum. we finally found a safe haven on the internet, a place where the smart people can be, and the stupid ones and trolls can just go and be dysfunctional somewhere else.

but yeah im thinkin the same thing, blaming the magical shiny metal spheres for killing you after you or your children ate said magical shiny metal spheres? its the consumers fault, just like if they banned lasers for a few people being morons and shining them at planes. we should ban pretzels too, those evil things tried to kill our president a few years back!!!

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Old 04-02-2015, 09:27 AM #32
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Default Re: Sen. Charles Schumer is calling for a federal ban on the sale of green lasers...

There is already a "ban" on the sale of green laser pointers and it doesn't accomplish anything.

It does figure that he's a liberal, anti-gun piece of trash though. I wish nothing good on him. *shrug*
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