Safety and Age

schmag said:

Amen. Hakzaw1
curiosity killed the cat as they say.
satisfaction can't bring your eyesight back.

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What cat?



:crackup: Haha, I cracks myself up.

But seriously, it depends on the kid. I know 11 and 12 years I would trust completely with such things as long as they're given proper training. And I also know 17 and 18 year olds that I trust about as far as I can throw them (not far).

I was on a shooting team in middle school with rifles and shotguns, you just had to be 12 years old to compete, but it was well supervised with a lot of training, and the kids had to be SHOWN to be responsible. Some kids can't handle it, but many can. I handled a firearm safer then than half the adults did, and my parents knew exactly how responsible I was. My dad was very cognizant of my level of responsibility, and that's what dictated when I got the conbination to the gunsafe and could start shooting on my own, rather then only when supervised.

You just have to know your kids, and know exactly what kind of responsibility you can leave up to them, and know exactly what they can't handle. Every kid is different.

Lasers ARE NOT guns, of course, but it's a metaphor. I'm sure you can see the parallels.

It's simple, really. It all depends on the kid/person. I'm 18 now and got my first greenie at 14; it was a 114mW CNI. Like any sensible person should, I researched before I bought. I knew exactly what I was getting, and exactly what it was capable of. I was always responsible and cautious of other peoples safety. Of course, not everyone is born with this attitude/perspective, or else this thread would not exist now would it?

I am sure the OP is talking about me.

In a different thread I offered to do a free build service for a kid. At first I didn't think too much of it because a 13 y/o hobbyist isn't very rare and I was just trying to be nice and help him get a start in this hobby. But as the conversation progressed and other members commented, it started to sink in how young he was. Even tho it sounded like he knew the dangers very well, I still don't know him personally and cant guarantee his safety. So needless to say, I didn't do it.

But like many people have already said, I think this is a person by person judgment call. Lasers can be misleading. And IMO I would trust a 13 y/o LPF vet member waaaay more than a 30y/o laser noob.

Morale of the story, do not give a high power laser to anybody you cant trust or doesn't know/take the dangers seriously.

Aside from the responsibility of the recipient, there is still the issue of getting parental permission. If anything should happen as a direct or indirect result of item/object you sent/sold/gave, you can and very likely will be sued. Also when corresponding with the parent/guardian, make every effort to ensure they are well educated about the risks involved and safety precautions that need to be taken; do not sugarcoat anything, present all the facts as is.

Lastly, as bad as it sounds, ask that you be released from all liabilities from the use, misuse, possession, purchase, reception, etc of the said item. I've heard horror stories of good people trying to help others; in the end they get hit with a lawsuit as a result damage, injury, etc caused by the item they sent. These "protocols" may cause you to loose a potential sale but may just end up saving yourself a lot of grief, money and time.

All of the above information does not guarantee you immunity to lawsuits arising from selling/giving something. It however, proves that you've made a reasonable effort to inform the involved parties.

Thanks for the advice blue, but there is one way to gain immunity... don't do it.
Sure I can point him to links with the info how to DIY but not send him a laser. As much as I would like to do another build, I dont want blood on my hands or any lawsuits.

It boggels my mind that some people on this forum can sell lasers to noobs/minors that only have 3 posts.

Careful with high power BR in kids hands ..... Otherwise, one day, can happen also this


(J/K )

yeah Glutton I was talking about you with this thread.
I figured you would do what you want to and I think you did well.
I know you wanted to be nice with the deal and get another person into the hobby which is really cool of you I just didn't think it was the right thing to do.
I wasn't trying to talk shit I was just hoping to maybe bring some of these concerns of mine back up to the table. and hopefully remind some people of my concerns.
your a good one in my book Glutten please don't take anything personally.

schmag said:

yeah Glutton I was talking about you with this thread.
I figured you would do what you want to and I think you did well.
I know you wanted to be nice with the deal and get another person into the hobby which is really cool of you I just didn't think it was the right thing to do.
I wasn't trying to talk shit I was just hoping to maybe bring some of these concerns of mine back up to the table. and hopefully remind some people of my concerns.
your a good one in my book Glutten please don't take anything personally.

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No offense taken, everyone who replied to that thread had the best intentions, and I can admit it was a dumb idea.

It would be great if he can build his own laser and handle it properly, but in the end I'm glad for me and him that I didn't build him a that laser.

I think there is a BIG difference between suppling a younger person and someone over 18. If there is a problem with an adult it's- why did you do that stupid thing?? with a minor it's --why then --where did you get that thing? A friend took 12 green pointers to Mardi Gras in Galveston Tx and sold out in 20 min. on a balcony party overlooking the Strand ---within 30 min. even tho he warned all those adults about misuse- the cops where there with this warning- one more report of lasers-in-the-face and we will be back to take them away and shut down the party- fortunetly all complied and only one wanted his 35$ back- and that one got re-sold a few minutes later. also... You can never leave out the booze factor.!!!!We need less people like my friend dealing in lasers for sure.<(*u+)>--dont put ur other eye out -fool!!

Well, i think that intelligence is the key, not age, after all ..... if one is stupid, is stupid at 6 same as at 60

Just for give you an idea ..... i have some little cousins here and there, and one day i was at home of some of them, and 2 of them, one 6 and one 9, asked me for my keychain for play with their dog ..... it's a 2 mW, so i left them play, with it, and gave it to the 9 one ..... before i can say her to pay attention, the 6 yo sister said her "not in the eyes, otherwise you hurt it", and the 9 replied "i know, i'm not stupid" ..... ok, all the times i left them play with a low power laser, i warn them about that, but they still are 6 and 9 years ..... then i see 40, 50 years old "adults", that buy lasers for flash in the face their friends at restaurant, or, happened in a pair of cases, uses 100mW greens for shoot in the face of a soccer porter during a football match, from the other side of the stadium, for disturb him (there's still a denounce in action, for that, and now you can't carry any laser in stadiums, for this) .....

That about "intelligence" of some adults :wtf:

I suppose it depends on the individual really, and not only on one being reckless, but also on how well informed someone is, regardless of age.

The over-use of warning labels contributes to this problem, and the older you get, the more experiences you will have where ignoring the warnings has not harmed you in any way.

On virually all products warning labels are just disclaimers (who would attempt to swallow a matress, really?). And then you encounter a product like a laser where ignoring the warning (do not look into output aperture) will actually do serious harm.

What age counts as a "kid"? I am guessing <13?

I think the best safety with lasers is common sense. I got myself into lasers at 12, and even then, without knowing they even existed, had the common sense to say "hey, this thing is bright, if the sun is bright and hurts your eye's then how is this different"

I am only 15 now, but I have only ever been hit in the eye by a laser on one occasion, where my RGY laser scanner caught some interference and bounced the laser right towards me, but luckily not even that was a direct hit in the eye.

I guess as long as kids have common sense, and you supply them with knowledge on lasers and safety equipment I can't see how they can't use lasers properly. Gotta learn to walk before you can run

-Dan

Dan I think I would trust you with a >5mw laser before I would trust my 39 year old brother. It's all about the knowledge. I had my first HENE at 15 when nobody know what a real laser was and safty ment don't touch the anode and cathode at the same time I was old enough to learn the dos and don'ts back then but I also had a scientific curiosity and respect for even the > 5mw HENE. My brother never will so for me it is a personality thing.


Thanks,

-SightFX

Im 16 here and almost 17. I once took my 50mW greenie to school to show some of my friends. First I told them to never shine it in someones eyes or off any reflective surfaces and the FIRST thing they do when I hand it over is they shine it at some kids face they dont like. Needless to say, they are never allowed to touch my laser again. I don't think its a matter of age but more of a matter of how mature you are to handle a laser properly.

I would like to introduce a new vision here.

By educating your son about laser safety you are teaching him that you can break the law if you consider yourself "safe". What with this?

Yours,
Albert

Ivan said:

Im 16 here and almost 17. I once took my 50mW greenie to school to show some of my friends. First I told them to never shine it in someones eyes or off any reflective surfaces and the FIRST thing they do when I hand it over is they shine it at some kids face they dont like. Needless to say, they are never allowed to touch my laser again. I don't think its a matter of age but more of a matter of how mature you are to handle a laser properly.

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The problem is that nowadays many things are considered very dangerous and the kids discover that they are not as dangerous (or at least think this). This applies to alcohol, tobacco, drugs in general, speeding, etc. When do they learn? when they get a coma, when they get cancer, or when they crash with the car, or when they loose an eye with a laser. It's just as simple as this. Next time I suggest you to bring a burned retina photo with you so they can understand what the danger is really about (just like what they plan to do with tobacco, showing black lungs etc on the packets)

Yours,
Albert

I never let friends use my lasers, as I know their first reaction will be to point it at someone or something ...