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Old 03-07-2013, 09:26 PM #33
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

Nah, I wouldn't worry about that scenario too much. So many easier way to set things on fire, than using a laser.


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Old 03-07-2013, 09:31 PM #34
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

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Originally Posted by Pman View Post
The more I investigate the more I believe this was typical sensationalism. Want a big story, create one. Finding it extremely difficult to believe that kind of injury on the white solera could occur that far away with that power and in a helicopter.
Didn't the article say that they messed with it in person..... hmmmmm
Yea I was confused about that, why would they be messing around with it at all, not to mention that it potentially wounded a crew member, this "injury" more then likely just the person scratching their eye but if it was the laser then it more then likely happened when they were playing with it.

And why were they allowed to play with it? Are they free to use a high powered lasers when everyone else isn't? Doesn't make any sense.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:41 PM #35
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

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Originally Posted by JollyKillBill View Post
And why were they allowed to play with it? Are they free to use a high powered lasers when everyone else isn't? Doesn't make any sense.
Well yes. Laws don't apply to cops or government employees, especially while they are on duty.

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Old 03-08-2013, 01:01 AM #36
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

"Its Class IV power is three times greater than pointers generally used in an office or classroom setting"

So those classroom lasers output over 300mW?

But in all honestly this really sucks. Sadly high powered lasers are becoming more and more illegal and will probably be considered actual weapons that require a permit if they aren't completely illegal.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:54 AM #37
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

Yep I can see a FLL as being part of the future
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:51 AM #38
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardG View Post
What worries me is the potential for someone with a few bucks and several screws loose to do real damage. Think arsonist with a 100W CO2 rig in the back of a van. That kind of thing would get the attention of the powers that be very quickly.


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"Its Class IV power is three times greater than pointers generally used in an office or classroom setting"

So those classroom lasers output over 300mW?

But in all honestly this really sucks. Sadly high powered lasers are becoming more and more illegal and will probably be considered actual weapons that require a permit if they aren't completely illegal.

and so therefore we will all require laser permits for every blu-ray or dvd burner we decide to buy. New laptop? Built in lightscribe + blu-ray burner? Please apply for your class IV laser permit within the next 7 days. If you refuse, you can/will be fined $500
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:42 AM #39
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

Handhelds in USA aren't illegal, only the selling and buying is illegal. Regardless of what laws are passed, as long as products with lasers diodes are available to the public and this forum is allowed to stay active the hobby will live on.

Also the injury in the picture is complete BS. No way he received that from the laser. +600ft of divergence with the loss through a windshield and the short exposure. Replicating those conditions I would even volunteer to be the guinea pig for that one. That being said I'm still all for the zero tolerance policy for laser abusers. Pilots shouldn't have to worry about the cockpit being lighted up. Waste of tax dollars.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:39 AM #40
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

There may be a reaction, but I doubt it will be swift. The US political system is slow and convoluted (unless money is involved). Electronic cigarettes have been, and still are, being attacked by the fda. In 2009, IIRC, they tried an all out ban by labeling them "unregulated drug delivery devices". It got thrown out of court. They have not stopped trying, finally going for a hearing in jan. for regulation.
Many believe that the fda is getting paid off by big tobacco and big pharma to stop a safer, cheaper alternative.

If you do some research, it seems the fda isn't about safety. Vioxx comes to mind....
When it comes to lasers, I don't think they will get more restrictive any time soon. There is more "mainstream" things that are their current focus (like e-cigs).

That being said, as the availability of high powered lasers continue to rises, and get cheaper, these incedents will happen more and more. At a certain point, or should a particularly high profile incident occur, pressure will get them to get strickter. The e-cig community has had many panic moments, but nothing has YET to happen.

But one could argue that trying to ban a safe alternitive to smoking, for no logical reason, is very different than a device that can easily cause irreversible damage. If, or when the fda goes offensive, defending lasers wont be as easy to defend. I still thing it wont happen till incidents become higher profile, or become more frequently reported (by respected news agencies).

Just my two cents. Sorry if I rambled a bit.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:29 AM #41
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

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Originally Posted by jArdi View Post
and so therefore we will all require laser permits for every blu-ray or dvd burner we decide to buy. New laptop? Built in lightscribe + blu-ray burner? Please apply for your class IV laser permit within the next 7 days. If you refuse, you can/will be fined $500
oh come on ,it's never worked that way. I can go buy a box of matches, no problem. even a short length of pipe with screw-on end caps. All nice and legal. But once I assemble it all by putting the match heads inside the pipe and screwing it shut, I have a pipe bomb. Instant felony. 5 year probation and jail time.

I'm cool with that. but it won't be the laser components that are legislated or outlawed. it will be the finished product. Lasers that can shine in someone's eyes and blind them are at risk, not the components.

Buy your laser products, now, before the US demand, and the supply dry up!
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:46 AM #42
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

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oh come on ,it's never worked that way. I can go buy a box of matches, no problem. even a short length of pipe with screw-on end caps. All nice and legal. But once I assemble it all by putting the match heads inside the pipe and screwing it shut, I have a pipe bomb. Instant felony. 5 year probation and jail time.

I'm cool with that. but it won't be the laser components that are legislated or outlawed. it will be the finished product. Lasers that can shine in someone's eyes and blind them are at risk, not the components.

Buy your laser products, now, before the US demand, and the supply dry up!
OH YEAH!? WELL......

touche.

but yeah imona try my best to get as much as i can within the next couple months or so.....hopefully ill be fully packed by the end of summer
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:22 PM #43
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

What difference between a small labbie and a hand held...assuming the same powers and optics. or what is the legal difference ?
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:03 PM #44
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

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Originally Posted by trussmonkey25 View Post
What difference between a small labbie and a hand held...assuming the same powers and optics. or what is the legal difference ?
Lab style lasers are usually exempt from laws (in Canada, Aus and the USA) as they are much safer.
The laws usually only apply to handheld lasers.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:03 PM #45
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

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Lab style lasers are usually exempt from laws (in Canada, Aus and the USA) as they are much safer.
The laws usually only apply to handheld lasers.
So if i u-bolt my hand held to a heavy object such as a table or cinderblock. does that make it a labbie. or if i put my co2. on a shoulder mount make it a pointer??
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:17 PM #46
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

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So if i u-bolt my hand held to a heavy object such as a table or cinderblock. does that make it a labbie. or if i put my co2. on a shoulder mount make it a pointer??
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:52 PM #47
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

Also the injury in the picture is complete BS. No way he received that from the laser. +600ft of divergence with the loss through a windshield and the short exposure. Replicating those conditions I would even volunteer to be the guinea pig for that one. That being said I'm still all for the zero tolerance policy for laser abusers. Pilots shouldn't have to worry about the cockpit being lighted up. Waste of tax dollars.[/QUOTE]

Think this one out from being a helicopter observer. ... (Rent a "Blue Thunder" DVD and watch)

Would you consider replicating it holding binoculars to your eyes? I hope not. That has been somthing I've been thinking about in this case. There are at least three other possibilities here for a helicopter observer.

1. He was wearing bi-focal eye glasses.
2. He was using his binoculars.
3. He wiped his eyes with his glove as a startle reaction after being flashed.
4. They were closer then 800 feet, in which case the P.I.C has some explaining to do, to the FAA and His Commander.

Legally they would all be a laser related injury in this case.

Never underestimate "optically aided viewing" as being part of the problem. A good pair of 10x50s + a watt at short range is going to be a issue, very quickly.

We had this problem often in university labs, students viewing the laser spot with a microscope or direct camera view finder. This can get very dangerous, quickly.

Older CDRH paperwork urges you to consider eye glasses as a 50 mm collection arperture when doing eye safety calcs.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- for the other issue-------------------------------------------------------

There is no rule defining a lab laser. There is a rule defining a handheld. There are rules defining the required safety features, for either type of device. Everything else still requires registering as a manufacturer. So only if you did the paperwork does your laser get the approval for marketing. Thus a simple conversion with no reporting does not make a handheld into a lab laser. 21 CFR 1040.1 Is pretty clear on un=authorized modifications busting the device approval.

Steve

Last edited by LSRFAQ; 03-11-2013 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:47 AM #48
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Default Re: One Dumb Ass With Wicked Laser Ruins It For All Of Us

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Finding it extremely difficult to believe that kind of injury on the white solera could occur that far away with that power and in a helicopter.
Completely beyond the laws of physics for this to happen. Even assuming the guy with the laser is using a gyro stabilized platform to keep a steady beam the helicopter movement would prevent a sustained burned. Next, I've yet to see a 445 burn anything beyond 20-30feet. You can light up a cockpit with it and seriously tick off the pilots, but burns aren't going to happen because of divergence.

We can pass all the laws we want in the U.S., but it's going to be impossible to stop the possession of hand helds. Maybe put them under some type of classification like hand guns...and that's about it. As we know it's all too easy to harvest them from projectors and such, so you can't stop the source.
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