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Old 09-06-2013, 09:38 PM #113
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

But then couldn't you just ship two halves of a laser, easily assembled? That would allow a handheld class IIIb and class IV laser into the US... along with immediate patching by the FDA


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Old 09-07-2013, 12:21 AM #114
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Quote:
along with immediate patching by the FDA
Exactly, to keep future security for the hobby the fix needs to be conclusive and effective long term. Using loopholes to "get round" problems don't make the problems go away,it just masks the symptoms (as well as annoying the very people you are opposed to)

Quote:
A large portion of the people who buy (bought?) those products from Laserglow use them for bird abatement. Farmers, golf course owners, even airport operators
Great info EH, that's what it requires,legitimate explanation of justifiable use. The only downside is that won't in and of itself mean hobby users will get to keep them.
Industrial and professional users have "good cause" but weather such exclusions can be made to fit hobby users / collectors is moot.

Over here for example some chemicals are highly restricted and/or banned totally from retail sale, I can buy them still for use at work though, If I walk into a Chemical outlet as a private individual they would likely just call the police if I attempted to purchase them.

Here selling pointers over 5mW is banned, I can still buy those perfectly legally too simply because of the job I'm in.

It looks to be more serious for the private users or individuals who find lasers interesting items or have an interest in lasers in general that will be most affected.

cheers

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Old 09-07-2013, 01:28 AM #115
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

That's still a rather large portion of LPF... or so I would think. I would fit under that category, being the most affected, at least. So the point is to either get a lasting compromise, as my proposal offers, or figure out a way to prevent further restrictions entirely
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Old 09-07-2013, 02:21 AM #116
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwang21 View Post
But then couldn't you just ship two halves of a laser, easily assembled? That would allow a handheld class IIIb and class IV laser into the US... along with immediate patching by the FDA
That reminds me of how vendors sell beer home brew kits to drinkers and the latter getting taxed by some govts through home brew licences.
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:30 AM #117
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

was surfing around and found this comment on this subject, which made me smile.

Quote:
I love how people who might all be in favor of banning XY or Z (ex Guns), suddenly get all constitutional and pissed off when the ban stick is pointed at something they care about.

Frankly it is beyond time people woke up and realized the role of government is not to protect us from anything. The TSA mentioned in this article are an affront to the logical arguments that formed the foundation of the USA.

Thomas Jefferson said, and I quote:

“I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not
enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their
discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of
Constitutional power.”

In other words, when the people abuse their powers and rights, it isn't the job of the Government to take those rights away like they would from a spoiled wicked little child... Or restrict them to only those who are "Trusted" by the establishment.
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:36 AM #118
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Looks like FDA is requesting enforcement of the rules and regulations more than anything else.

From: FDA Seeks CBP Help in Cracking Down on Illegal Laser Product Imports: STR & STTAS International Trade and Customs

FDA Seeks CBP Help in Cracking Down on Illegal Laser Product Imports

Thursday, August 22, 2013

Sandler, Travis & Rosenberg Trade Report

The Food and Drug Administration has asked U.S. Customs and Border Protection for its help in preventing the delivery and distribution of illegal handheld laser pointers by monitoring small packages that could contain them. Specifically, the FDA is requesting that CBP notify it of all importations of visible and non-visible laser products, including laser pointers, laser gun sights, laser levels, laser light shows, laser pointer key chains, veterinary laser products, laser illuminators and similar products, including those entered as “section 321” or informal entries.

According to the letter, FDA regulations limit the energy output of handheld laser pointers to less than five milliwatts and require them to be labeled as Class IIIa. However, the FDA has observed a number of laser pointer shipments entering the U.S. via courier hubs and international mail facilities, mostly in small, personal use-sized shipments that are often misdeclared or labeled as party lights, toys, flashlights, etc. The FDA suspects that these shipments contain laser pointers that exceed the 5 mW limit and are designed to avoid regulatory requirements that the importer submit information on each shipment to CBP and the FDA and affirm that the products they are importing comply or do not comply with federal performance standards.

In light of the potential health concerns associated with laser pointers, the letter states, it is important that they undergo FDA admissibility review at the time of importation. If a given shipment meets all applicable requirements, the FDA will release it. If not, the products will be detained by the FDA and, unless the requirements are met, refused admission into the U.S. The letter notes that importations of this type do not meet the FDA's criteria for enforcement discretion for personal importation.
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Old 09-07-2013, 06:01 AM #119
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encap View Post
Looks like FDA is requesting enforcement of the rules and regulations more than anything else.

From: FDA Seeks CBP Help in Cracking Down on Illegal Laser Product Imports: STR & STTAS International Trade and Customs

FDA Seeks CBP Help in Cracking Down on Illegal Laser Product Imports

Thursday, August 22, 2013

Sandler, Travis & Rosenberg Trade Report

The Food and Drug Administration has asked U.S. Customs and Border Protection for its help in preventing the delivery and distribution of illegal handheld laser pointers by monitoring small packages that could contain them. Specifically, the FDA is requesting that CBP notify it of all importations of visible and non-visible laser products, including laser pointers, laser gun sights, laser levels, laser light shows, laser pointer key chains, veterinary laser products, laser illuminators and similar products, including those entered as “section 321” or informal entries.

According to the letter, FDA regulations limit the energy output of handheld laser pointers to less than five milliwatts and require them to be labeled as Class IIIa. However, the FDA has observed a number of laser pointer shipments entering the U.S. via courier hubs and international mail facilities, mostly in small, personal use-sized shipments that are often misdeclared or labeled as party lights, toys, flashlights, etc. The FDA suspects that these shipments contain laser pointers that exceed the 5 mW limit and are designed to avoid regulatory requirements that the importer submit information on each shipment to CBP and the FDA and affirm that the products they are importing comply or do not comply with federal performance standards.

In light of the potential health concerns associated with laser pointers, the letter states, it is important that they undergo FDA admissibility review at the time of importation. If a given shipment meets all applicable requirements, the FDA will release it. If not, the products will be detained by the FDA and, unless the requirements are met, refused admission into the U.S. The letter notes that importations of this type do not meet the FDA's criteria for enforcement discretion for personal importation.
this is good in a way. its more of a step in the right direction. I just ordered a laser, and it made it through customs. took like half a day...mileage may vary. a similar post is what prompted me to create this thread.
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405nm: Melles Griot RCS
430nm: Coherent D3 430-10
441.6nm: Omnichrome 2056-M-A01/4074-P-A03 HeCd laser
457.9nm: Argon Ion Line

472nm Omni-643RYB Whitelight Line
473nm: CNI MGL-473-100, CNI GLP-473
476.5nm: Argon Ion Line

483nm Omni-643RYB Whitelight Line
488nm: Argon Ion Line, Spectra Physics >20mW Cyan DECSL Laser, Coherent Sapphire 488-20 OPSL

496.5nm: Argon Ion Line
501.7: Argon Ion Line
514.5nm: Argon Ion Line
520nm: Trustfire A8 Custom

532nm: CNI MGL-F-3W, Coherent Genesis MX Taipan OPSL, LG Hercules-325
543.5nm: 05-LGR-193 Melles Griot HeNe 3.8mW
Melles Griot LGB-563 HeNe

561nm: Melles Griot 85-YCA-015, Coherent Sapphire 561-20
568nm: Omni-643RYB Whitelight Line

577nm: Coherent Genesis MX Taipan OPSL
583.8nm: DPSS line
586.2nm: DPSS line
588.6nm: CNI PGL-M-80

591nm: DPSS line
593.5nm CNI MGL-H-50 Lab Laser
594.1nm: Coherent 31-2230-000 (4.5mW)

604.6nm: LOR-150 HeNe line
609nm: Raman HeNe line?
611.8nm: Melles Griot LOR-150 HeNe (5mW), LOR-006 HeNe (0.5mW)

632.8nm: Spectra Physics Model-127 (>35mW), Model-124B, Model-120, Model-117, others
Melles Griot LHB-580, LHB-190, WHR-570

641nm: Melles Griot RCS
647nm: Omni-643RYB Whitelight Line
659.6nm: Laser Quantum IGNIS DPSS laser 0.5W

671nm: CNI PGL-III-C-100
676nm: Omni-643RYB Whitelight Line
690nm: custom diode laser
694nm: Portable Q-switched Ruby Laser

1152.6nm: SP-120 HeNe alt. mirrors
1523.5nm: Melles Griot LIR-151 HeNe
3391nm: SP-124 alt. mirrors

Last edited by ultimatekaiser; 09-07-2013 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:55 AM #120
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Yes I agree.

Looks like same rules and regulations as has been the case since 2010.

It remains to be seen if they become more difficult to get through customs.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:20 AM #121
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatekaiser View Post
this is good in a way. its more of a step in the right direction. I just ordered a laser, and it made it through customs. took like half a day...mileage may vary. a similar post is what prompted me to create this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Encap View Post
Yes I agree.

Looks like same rules and regulations as has been the case since 2010.

It remains to be seen if they become more difficult to get through customs.
The above explains in part Laserglows problem, but not shipments of their handheld lasers. I assume Laserglow clearly marks their handheld laser exports, yes, no?
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:32 AM #122
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

I'm not seeing how this is good guys?

For me that reads as "We will start enforcing the rules we haven't been enforcing" leading to seizure of pointers over 5mW.

Quote:
The letter notes that importations of this type do not meet the FDA's criteria for enforcement discretion for personal importation
This bit in particular reads: "no leeway for personal imports" however it appears there is "discretion" for imports depending on who is importing? (I'd guess businesses or companies?)

Quote:
suddenly get all constitutional and pissed off when the ban stick is pointed at something they care about.
When they came for the Jews I was silent because I am not a Jew
When they came for the Gipsys I was silent because I am not a Gipsy
When they came for the Blacks I was silent because I am not Black
Now they have come for me and there is no one left to speak up

(please note this is a repeat of a historical statement and not intended as any form of racial slur)

cheers

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Old 09-07-2013, 12:11 PM #123
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatekaiser View Post
Well....actually they are not illegal to own, only to use in public...and it varied with state to state...
Let's not state something as fact that only causes confusion. A laser of any class can by an individual for their own entertainment be used in public, because there's no law making it illegal. What you are likely referring to are laws prohibiting harassment or causing harassment indirectly.

Last edited by steve001; 09-07-2013 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 09-07-2013, 01:41 PM #124
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

I've just read the whole topic and the impression is that the only evidence of increased US customs trouble is that Laserglow stopped shipping >5mW portable lasers to the US. This is probably just an isolated case... If anyone has evidence of more cases please post some links.
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Old 09-07-2013, 02:13 PM #125
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

That news report seems to aim for the cheap eBay or Amazon lasers... but that still doesn't make sense with the case of LG. My LG libra was clearly marked as a laser, and they had red label tape on it that read "STOP: PLEASE OPEN TO VERIFY CONTENTS" that it was indeed a legal laser. (Of course, this tape was hastily slashed, by a customs agent I'm assuming). So LG pretty clearly marks their packages... it doesn't make sense with this news report

EDIT: agree with atomicrox^ although our questions to LG were answered saying that the FDA is tightening their regulations
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:36 PM #126
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Honestly ppl ive had input too but its just going around and around ...with same,things being said again and again, need an agreed answer on what to do, can do to make it easier to actually have a hobby that's legal ,not being an outlawed group of laser owners ...
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:31 PM #127
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

As I mentioned earlier, if somebody wants to give me an address in the US they have access to I'll post a 5mW pointer marked as a 25 mW and see if it gets returned / seized.

What do we know so far:

1: The FDA are apparently tightening up on laser hand helds over 5mW for import into the US,
2: The law hasn't actually changed it just appears that the FDA will be following it more closely,

References thus far:

1: LaserGlows information about higher powers being returned.
2: Referenced information here FDA Seeks CBP Help in Cracking Down on Illegal Laser Product Imports: STR & STTAS International Trade and Customs

Past that everything is speculation, conjecture and supposition.

Options:

1: Group together as "one voice" to address the FDA directly in a bid to prevent further restrictions or unreasonable restrictions being enforced.
2: Voice opinions and reasoning directly to the FDA as individuals.
3: Do nothing and see what happens.

Potential Issues, considerations:

The FDA and other government agencies will have several respected "experts" in their fields available, arguing technicalities with them as an individual will achieve very little.

Negotiating from a position of weakness is a lot harder than demanding from a position of strength.

A reason to import / possess is essential, "I like lasers innit" doesn't make it.

Badly written or ill considered contact with a government agency can often be turned against you. ("Why can't I have a laser to get rid of my shit neighbours mate") isn't the best approach and will likely result in hearing your letter read out on national TV by a jackbooted agency representative as justification to ban anything that even looks like a laser.

Remember anger achieves nothing, messages like "F*** you I can get them anyways and you can't stop me" will likely end with you being on the national watch list.

Before demanding your "rights" are respected make sure via a good lawyer exactly what rights you have that affect the situation. Demanding rights you don't actually have is a sure fire way to look like an ill researched stroppy kid who just had their dummy taken away.

Don't make anything personal, the person you contact goes home at the end of the day to a wife and kids and his cat much like the rest of us. He may or may not agree with what's going on (if anything) personally and being impolite will just result in putting him/her offside.

Just my thoughts

cheers

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Old 09-07-2013, 04:43 PM #128
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Good post, agreed +1
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