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Old 09-04-2013, 02:59 AM #65
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

lasers have killed way more people than guns, remember Alderaan?

Alderaan, never forget, never forgive

for real though, sometimes the Sh*# people say makes you wonder if they can even hear themselves

it's cool to have an extended mag desert eagle 50AE but you want a class IV laser, why would you possibly want all that power???

I guess If you'd rather be killed or otherwise maimed by bullets than blinded by photons then maybe lasers are worse


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Old 09-04-2013, 02:47 PM #66
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwang21 View Post
Interesting... I emailed them yesterday, Mr. Browes replied:

"Dear Mr. Browes,

Thank you for the information. However, I note on this FDA webpage(Important Information for Laser Pointer Manufacturers)

"Can battery-operated, portable laser systems be sold in the U.S?
Yes, battery-operated, portable laser systems can be sold in the U.S., providing that they fully comply with the standard, are certified and reported, and are not Class IIIb lasers sold or promoted for pointing or amusement purposes.

People who operate Class IIIb portable laser systems should be familiar with the above ANSI standards for safe use of lasers. This ANSI series of standards includes specific information for the safe use of such laser products in their applications of use."



So as long as the Class IIIb portable laser system is not advertised as a pointer or for amusement purposes, it should be legal to import and own battery-powered lasers. Is this not correct? Please let me know, thanks so much!"

---

"We regret to inform you that although Laserglow has been shipping our products into the United States for some time there have been recent changes in regulations inside the entire United States of America (and protectorates) on laser and laser related products, governed by the FDA, which now precludes inbound laser shipments of handheld, portable directed energy devices (including lasers) of hazard Class IIIb and IV (IEC 3B and 4), as well as any possible variation of such a device. This effectively stops the sale of portable laser devices (non-AC powered) in the >5 mW (through maximum power emission), to any address inside the USA.

We apologize for this unforeseen circumstance, yet we also support the containment of hand held laser devices for legitimate uses, which is very difficult for the FDA to establish based solely on shipping documents. Similar restrictions have been in place inside Canada for the past year, and highly restrictive regulations have been in place for many years in many countries around the world.

We do offer Class IIIa alternative systems.

Best Regards,
Sinceres Salutations,
Saludos,
Melhores cumprimentos,
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,


N. Scott Browes
Technical Sales Manager
Laserglow Technologies
sbrowes@laserglow.com
tel. 1.416.729.7976 Extension #13
facs. 1.480.247.4864
web. www.laserglow.com"

---

"Hello,

I am hwang21 from LPF. I am wondering, as many of us are, about the new shipping restrictions to the USA. Can you please inform us as to why your laser products cannot be shipped to the USA anymore? As far as I know, handheld lasers bearing appropriate warning labels, key switches, safety locks, and other FDA safety requirements ARE legal to import and own in the USA. Please let us know what is going on and who is behind these changes, thanks so much!"

I've checked around and I'm confused as to what new standards there are. Since Laserglow is referring to the ANSI document then they misunderstand it. It's not to meant govern private citizen use of lasers, but for institutional, medical and scientific entities... See here ANSI Z136 Standards - LIA

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Old 09-04-2013, 06:37 PM #67
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

The whole situation is a train wreck as per others thoughts, the media perceive lasers as same as a 45 magnum handgun total BS, education is the answer but with idiots its rather hard to get a footing
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:03 PM #68
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Alright so what we need a petition to the FDA to educate the general public on lasers, but not increase restrictions on lasers except for laser pointers on eBay and such. It may not be very effective at first, but every single person who learns is progress, isn't it?
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:16 PM #69
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

^ that's what we all said about reptiles (not you guys, people from my reptile hobby) but now reptiles are becoming an underground hobby. We have had countless petitions shot down.
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:26 AM #70
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

46,000 people signed a petition to try and prevent a handgun ban in the UK

It passed easily and is now law

140,000 people gathered in London to protest a fox hunting with hounds ban

It passed easily and is now law

In 1906 our first gun laws were enacted, you could still own pretty much anything with a licence. In 1965 the law changed on CO2 powered pellet guns requiring people to register their guns for a free certificate.
In 1968 pellet guns powered by CO2 gassed became restricted firearms subject to the same controls as a 44 magnum handgun.
In 1995 the firearms laws changed to effectivly ban all powder powered handguns while CO2 powered BB guns were removed from certificate as a means (justification) for people that complained.

Anybody that believes lawmakers or customs enforcement give a flying shit what anybody thinks is kidding themselves.

"If you want an illustration of the future , imagine a boot standing on a human face...forever"

George Orwell.

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Old 09-05-2013, 01:33 AM #71
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

UK gun laws are rough. BUT that is also UK not US. reptiles here are under alot of fire since a guy in my state released 56 tigers, lions, things like that. what did the government do? nope tigers are fine but if you want a rock python then you are just some awful person in their eyes. of all 56 do you know how many were reptiles? 0! do you know what animal is under most fire? reptiles! its so stupid. and that "snake" death of the two little boys in canada? FAKE! snakes dont do that and it was obviously the fathers sick game. blame the snake and noone will blame you. it was just too convenient. he changed his story multiple times.
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:54 AM #72
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Either way, there has to be a way to change the route things are going... if you don't even at least try, speak up, nothing, then no one will know you even have an opinion on the subject...
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Old 09-05-2013, 02:04 AM #73
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

maybe your right. maybe this can be stopped. sadly reptiles have slid to far into the deep. in a year or so my red tail boa im looking at as i write this will be illegal. its really sad.
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Old 09-05-2013, 02:14 AM #74
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Quote:
BUT that is also UK not US
Indeed bro, but do you really believe UK lawmakers are much different from the US? It's got nothing to do with public safety or facts.It's simply about getting to keep your job, much as I'm not a fan of wild eyed conspiracy nuts or the whole "my dog ate a ufo occupant" kind of mental illness there is one small statement one of the nutballs made that actually made sense. Problem,Reaction,Solution.

Problem: remind people how so many commercial aircraft are endangered by these horror death rays on a daily basis.(just make sure you leave out the bit that says nobody got hurt ok?)

Reaction: We your trusted representatives will save you from a fate worse than death by banning these terrible WMD's, we have your best interests at heart and will protect you from these mindless individuals (who by chance are one of the lowest voting per capita groups so their few votes don't mean shit)

Solution: The people are saved, the government comes out smelling of roses for protecting the people (from a threat that never actually existed by the way but hey just don't tell the sheep) (PS: as I saved your ass please vote for me next time so I can underachieve and get overpaid, thanks)

As a species , humanity has all the attention span of a half dead goldfish, look back at history (in all countries) how many times have elected officials made promises only to get elected then do the exact opposite. People in general forget the promises and just suck up what they are being told they need to believe. It's the nature of the democracies we live in sadly,it's not going to change (hell it's worked for centuries).

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Old 09-05-2013, 03:25 AM #75
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

You just made my life. If you excuse me imma 'bout to go shine my death ray because I'm 'merican. Lol
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:38 AM #76
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Hey, we're free, right? 'murica, land of the free
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:59 AM #77
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Not anymore apparently, and it gets worse by the day.... >.>
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:32 PM #78
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

I'm just going to throw my two cents in here. Please note my views do not represent the views of Laserglow!

I've been fairly involved with all of this for the past few weeks and this is what's going on. As you've seen in this thread, the CFR has long since stated that Surveying, Leveling and Alignment (SLA) lasers are limited to Class IIIa. For pretty much forever up until now, this was limited to lasers in the kind of equipment you'd expect: surveying equipment, levels with lasers built into them, and so on. But recently, the FDA has decided that ANY battery-powered laser is considered a SLA laser. No matter what it's intended purpose is.

We say: "But we use them for pointing!"
They say: "It's an SLA laser"
We say: "But we use them for bird abatement!"
They say: "It's an SLA laser"
We say: "But scientists use them in laboratories!"
They say: "It's an SLA laser"
We say: "Even you, the FDA, have purchased these lasers from us."
They say: "Well we can't anymore because it's an SLA laser"

So the FDA simply is refusing to see this in any other way. We have looked for loopholes, we have looked for excuses, they're just not having it. Every single package containing a >5mW battery-operated laser destined for the USA has been seized by customs and returned to us. It doesn't matter if it meets the safety requirements or not - if it's Class 3B or Class 4, and it runs on batteries, it's not getting through.

Of course, this is being done to stop irresponsible or ignorant people from buying high-powered lasers and using them to cause public harm. And yes, a particularly knowledgeable or dedicated individual could use a lab laser plugged into an extension cord in their driveway or rig up an inverter with batteries. But simply preventing high-powered lasers from entering the USA will be enough of a deterrent that most people would give up on their dreams of owning a cool laser. Note that the people reading this on this forum are generally not the people that the FDA is targeting. They're targeting the 14 year old kid who used his dads credit card to by an Arctic and then shined it into traffic. They're targeting the 20 year old high school dropout who wants to buy a laser he keeps hearing about on the news because it looks really cool. They're targeting the people who contact companies like Laserglow and want to buy a laser, literally, with malicious intent ("I hate my neighbor so I want to blind him with a laser, which one do I buy?"). And frankly, this is a pretty good way of stopping those people from getting those lasers.

I agree that there should be some kind of certification or license you can get that will allow you to buy lasers. A laser license, so to speak. But there isn't enough demand for these products for it to be worth the cost of implementing such a system (as far as the US Government is concerned). Currently your best hope is to fill out a variance application and submit it to the FDA (which is a nightmare, by the way). But you have basically no chance of it being approved unless you are working with law enforcement or the military.

I don't know what the situation is with other vendors. The FDA has been trying to shut out Wicked Lasers for some time now, and it seems that CNI also has been visited by the FDA. I don't think CNI will even ship those lasers to the USA anymore, and if they do they're almost certainly going to be seized and sent back. Australia has already banned laser pointers over 1 mW. Germany banned them too. Canada has already banned the sale of them to private citizens and it looks like the EU is currently pushing these laws through as well. It is a sad time for the laser hobbyist.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:59 PM #79
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Quote:
So the FDA simply is refusing to see this in any other way. We have looked for loopholes, we have looked for excuses, they're just not having it.
why am I not surprised, it's like using Nuclear Weapons to get rid of an ants nest. The wonderful people at FDA could probably justify that by saying "Well it got rid of the ants"

a sad time for a "free" country.

cheers

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Old 09-05-2013, 06:51 PM #80
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Default Re: Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Well issue is not the FDA has had enough of hand held lasers ,its we have had enough of the FDA ,and the media hype FFS sake you can get any hand gun you want but 5 mW laser is like trying to get nuclear weapons into the country ...the government needs to really get an education and deal with the 1% of idiots Not ban the lasers they don't cause any harm its the idiots exactly same with hand guns, its beyond belief
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