Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...

Thankfully GTA5 is coming out soon, that should give these idiots something better to do for awhile on a console rather than in real life :beer:

danefex said:

Thankfully GTA5 is coming out soon, that should give these idiots something better to do for awhile on a console rather than in real life :beer:

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true anything to slow the problem ..pm coming on light saber kits

Wait so bringing this thread in a slightly different direction...

The FDA prohibits any laser advertised as a "laser pointer" for demonstration, alignment, or pointing purposes that outputs over 5mW. What about industrial and research lasers? Those can be portable, and given our warning labels, keys, etc shouldn't it be legal?

It always has been. I dont see why that has suddenly changed so. I'm going to attempt to find out what has prompted this change from LG and see what higher power is asking them to stop.

Yeah Justin is about to get a lot of questions from us LPF'ers lol

well as far as I can see 21CFR1040.10 and .11 havn't had any changes since April that I can see. other than the fact that people are importing 'ebay cheapies' I see no reason for this, and no new legislation on this matter.

bottom line: If it meets the requirements and has been registered with the FDA and has an ascession number it is legal. end of story.

however, there are not specific paragraphs relating directly to this issue that I'm seeing so that's not to say there aren't pending changes, and that the FDA could ask manufacturers to stop shipping.

Edit: just found this

Excerpt from 21CFR1040.11:
(b)Surveying, leveling, and alignment laser products. Each surveying, leveling. or alignment laser product shall comply with all of the applicable requirements of 1040.10 for a Class I, IIa, II or IIIa laser product and shall not permit human access to laser radiation in excess of the accessible emission limits of Class IIIa.

(c)Demonstration laser products. Each demonstration laser product shall comply with all of the applicable requirements of 1040.10 for a Class I, IIa, II, or IIIa laser product and shall not permit human access to laser radiation in excess of the accessible emission limits of Class I and, if applicable, Class IIa, Class II, or Class IIIa.

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has this always been standing? maybe this is our change

I think that laser product designation is special because they are only eye-safe by virtue of the time that the beam occupies a given location -- generally due to a fast scan speed. They may incorporate more powerful lasers than Class 3r, but their output would still be considered eye-safe. It's like those laser products such as DVD-RW drives that have Class 3b lasers in them, but are sealed such that there is no risk of exposure outside the product. Some new rules are being pushed to ensure that even if the product is broken -- such as the door to the drive being snapped off like my crappy DVD player -- that the product is still eyesafe.

For those leveling-type machines the important safety stipulation would be that the product always produces eye-safe conditions even during a mechanical malfunction or something like a spin-up, by ensuring that the laser does not emit, or some other measure (like a shutter). I have no idea if this is a new addition to the regulations, but it makes sense.

Well an aperture shutter would solve that problem...

Bottom line is will anything really change, there's been grumbles about lasers and planes for ages with idiots but will the law change and you need say a license for a 1 mW laser if we carry it to extremes ..its a media frenzy they seem to treat all lasers like high powered rifles and guns, its the idiots using them not the lasers pointing themselves at aircraft that is obviously the problem

Ok, so I just got off the phone with laserglow's customer service and got a few vague answers, I didn't end up calling Justin, but got a little general info.

1. There has been no change in FDA legislation or regulations that they knew of, they simply aren't selling handhelds because customs has been locking down and treating thier portable products with alot of scrutiny lately, even though they meet federal safety standards. Customs and Border protection are primarily looking for things like our cheapie ebay overspec pointers, but they are also rallying to try to stop any portable battery operated lasers from crossing where they can that exceed class IIIa. Confirmed this is primarily because of idiot interfering with aircraft landings and such, and other general misuse. It sounds like a number of companies are possibly pleading their case, but it'll take time.

2. To those people already owning a portable module, it is already your property and there may be delays if you have to ship it for repairs/service, but it should not be seized due to the fact that it is already in your posession and your property, and is only leaving for a short time to be fixed. it is already considered 'imported' and therefore property of the US and you. they have an FDA ascession number and the 5 point safety system so as long as they continue to meet those standards or are repaired and come back meeting the standard again they remain legal to own. (so long as you dont go full retard with them) NEVER GO FULL RETARD!

Interesting... I emailed them yesterday, Mr. Browes replied:

"Dear Mr. Browes,

Thank you for the information. However, I note on this FDA webpage(Important Information for Laser Pointer Manufacturers)

"Can battery-operated, portable laser systems be sold in the U.S?
Yes, battery-operated, portable laser systems can be sold in the U.S., providing that they fully comply with the standard, are certified and reported, and are not Class IIIb lasers sold or promoted for pointing or amusement purposes.

People who operate Class IIIb portable laser systems should be familiar with the above ANSI standards for safe use of lasers. This ANSI series of standards includes specific information for the safe use of such laser products in their applications of use."



So as long as the Class IIIb portable laser system is not advertised as a pointer or for amusement purposes, it should be legal to import and own battery-powered lasers. Is this not correct? Please let me know, thanks so much!"

---

"We regret to inform you that although Laserglow has been shipping our products into the United States for some time there have been recent changes in regulations inside the entire United States of America (and protectorates) on laser and laser related products, governed by the FDA, which now precludes inbound laser shipments of handheld, portable directed energy devices (including lasers) of hazard Class IIIb and IV (IEC 3B and 4), as well as any possible variation of such a device. This effectively stops the sale of portable laser devices (non-AC powered) in the >5 mW (through maximum power emission), to any address inside the USA.

We apologize for this unforeseen circumstance, yet we also support the containment of hand held laser devices for legitimate uses, which is very difficult for the FDA to establish based solely on shipping documents. Similar restrictions have been in place inside Canada for the past year, and highly restrictive regulations have been in place for many years in many countries around the world.

We do offer Class IIIa alternative systems.

Best Regards,
Sinceres Salutations,
Saludos,
Melhores cumprimentos,
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,


N. Scott Browes
Technical Sales Manager
Laserglow Technologies
sbrowes@laserglow.com
tel. 1.416.729.7976 Extension #13
facs. 1.480.247.4864
web. www.laserglow.com"

---

"Hello,

I am hwang21 from LPF. I am wondering, as many of us are, about the new shipping restrictions to the USA. Can you please inform us as to why your laser products cannot be shipped to the USA anymore? As far as I know, handheld lasers bearing appropriate warning labels, key switches, safety locks, and other FDA safety requirements ARE legal to import and own in the USA. Please let us know what is going on and who is behind these changes, thanks so much!"

So in other words nothing seems to have changed, only that customs is being paranoid in light of recent events.

So they seize all the professional laser company modules, and yet I see no major changes to eBay "5mW" lasers...

'merica.

Lol'd +1

Speedy78 said:

I can go down and buy a rifle but cant have a 6mW pointer? Lol. This country is so fu ked. Hope you all know russian. It will be the primary language soon enough.

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This is something that baffled me a couple of months ago.

I actually ran into a dick on a local gun forum I belong to that was giving me shit when I posted pictures of my lasers. Others on the forum asked if I ever would sell any and I told them my policy on who I will sell to. Well this guy comes out of no where and starts telling me how lasers are so dangerous and why would I want something that powerful.... blah blah blah. I was beside myself, a guy on a gun forum was giving me crap about lasers (I am pretty sure a bullet will do a little more damage). I treat my lasers as I would a gun and lasers are dangerous in the wrong hands but worse accidents have come from firearms then lasers. This is just my opinion.